What does Riot have against unique and varied forms of vision?

DrugsForRobots··3 votes·288 views

Riot strives to make every champion ability unique, give every item its own unique niche and functionality, they're even making Runes & Masteries more unique, giving players specific forms of power.

**Why does Riot refuse to make vision unique? Why don't we have unique and interesting expressions of vision? More cool ways of getting information? **

I see all the time people posting ideas about different variations of SightStones, and the idea of having different SightStones that do different and cool things is fine... it's not a new idea (its the reason we have the 'EyeStones' - because Riot heard players demanding cool variant SightStones.)

But changing SS without changing the functionality of wards doesn't make the support role / vision game / stealth game any more interesting or interactive. And no one is asking about giving wards varied / alternate functions, so the info war stays stagnant and Riot wonders why more people don't like the support role.

Try to follow me on this:

The way wards grant vision is detrimental to the vision game, because players don't have access to how wards grant information. If I'm roaming and I pass over a ward, I have no idea I've done so beyond reading the enemy's movements (assuming they're even visible). This means it's very difficult to play stealthily, as to play stealthily I need information, which wards don't provide inherently.

  • (Riot has kind of done this in the past: Sweeping Lens is an awesome effect, very cool. The old Wolf Crossroads Spirit was also very cool. But to illustrate my point, consider the old Wolf Crossroads Spirit that existed from season 4-5 as a Smite bonus on the Greater Murk Wolf. If you entered a jungle where the spirit was active, it would create an audible sound. You would hear it before you would see it. And it's radius of vision was much smaller than your champions, meaning you could react and get out of there without giving up too much information.)

Even if I see you place a ward, once it turns invisible I can't interact with it unless I have a specific counter-item. This makes it very difficult for players to tune into the vision game - wards grant sight but 2 of the 4 ward constructs are invisible by default, and the other 2 can become invisible by being placed in brush, and none of them telegraph their presence to me besides the Control Ward, and only then if I have put a ward into it's range for it to disable.

Wards granting vision in the way that they do is not very appreciable, as none of their forms of vision are really unique. They all light up the map in the same way: a circular AoE of vision.

The implication:

If different ward constructs telegraphed their presence in different ways, they could be played around without needing a specific counter-item. This is actual stealth gameplay. If wards had different fields of sight, maybe a cone here, a literal line-of-sight there, then wards could potentially 'miss' enemy champions. If wards can 'miss' enemy champions, they can afford to be more powerful in the way their vision is expressed - larger AoEs, longer durations, effects like TS and other forms of invis detection. If wards can be played around, if they can 'miss', if they are fallible, then they can afford to be FREE.

And at the same time, vision becomes easier to appreciate, as players of all skill levels (but especially lower skill levels) become aware of how wards operate, how they cover space, how they control an area and in what ways they're doing all of those things. It also means that ganking becomes very skill intensive, as players have to navigate the enemy's ward defenses, dodging and weaving their way thru the various vision cones and skirting lines of sight - whereas now it's: '1) approach for a gank --> are they running away? OK, it's warded, I'll come back later / use Sweeper or Scryer Bloom or Control Ward and then come back later. 2) approach for a gank --> OK, they don't know I'm here, GOGOGOGO, successful gank resulting in Summoner Spell uses or their deaths.'

Does that make sense?

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/1f/Sightstone_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20170216222321

7 Comments

MysterQ1 votes

Maybe off topic.

But if I get 2 hits on a Yellow ward, should that reduce its time remaining. It is now not healthy anymore. It punishes players for warding where a player can hit it.

I see good and bad points to it. But it means hitting a ward actually means something.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

They could do that, but I don't see why they wouldn't just go the full distance and make such wards visible if you pass right over them.

If I see you place a ward, if I know it is there, why can't I interact with it? Why do I need a specific anti-ward item to clear a ward that was poorly or recklessly placed right in front of me?

As it stands, if you know where a ward is, short of relaying that info to your team, either via typing or the soon-to-be ward ping, there's nothing you can do about it without a specific anti-ward item. This is the opposite of organic gameplay.

Presumably, players would use that knowledge to approach from another direction, avoiding that area entirely. But this kind of behavior is rarely seen below Diamond. It's so difficult to tap into the vision game and get people into the mindset of using the information given to them and vying for that information, because so little of it is communicated to the players.

Players should fight their opponents, not the game. We strive to present information in a clear and precise way so that League can be about dominating opponents with skill and teamwork – not through bookkeeping hidden information.

"Clarity means we want distinct, transparent mechanics in everything we design. When the outcome of a game hinges on a player’s ability to quickly assess the situation, information needs to be clear and accessible. This doesn't mean we tell players the best play to make, but we should make sure they have the right info to make calls as best they can."

-- Ryan "Morello" Scott, Dev Blog: The Design Values of League of Legends - On Clarity

MysterQ1 votes

I'll definitely have to go over your original post again to see all of your ideas.

Eedat1 votes

Why does Riot refuse to make vision unique? Why don't we have unique and interesting expressions of vision? More cool ways of getting information?

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DrugsForRobots1 votes

Yes, champion vision abilities are pretty unique. The post was primarily about wards, which are instrumental to the support position, and how they don't follow the same design philosophy as champion abilities, items, and Runes & Masteries.

Did you even read my post?

dunder kill1 votes

tl;dr a Shaco main wants there to be even LESS counterplay to his main. 4 seconds of complete invisibility to all wards attached to a flash on a basic ability apparently isnt enough.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

You know what they say about people who assume, right?

I've actually repeatedly stated my desire to see more wards in the game, more forms of True Sight, more instances of unique and interesting ways of getting vision and detection, and how Riot needs to play up tell-tale signs and audio cues on champions who can become invisible.

You need only check 'My DIscussions' to see that this is 90% of what I talk about on these Boards.

But like RIot, you aren't listening.

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