Riot, can we please talk about Skarner???

Shahamut··3 votes·2,177 views

More specifically, why has RIOT not yet gotten rid of the spire passive? Why, when he is at his lowest, is your only thought for now to give him QoL buffs to the part of his kit that is actually killing him?

The spire locations were originlally moved/shrank because his clears were "too fast" or something, now we are basically reverting that change. Now his first clear will be slightly better... Yay?

Then there is taking the spires off the mini map... I mean, sure. But its not like that has kept Skarner from being able to counter jungle. (clarification, does Skarner still see the spires on HIS minimap? because if not, then this really is just a neutral change)

The biggest issue though is that this passive is STILL locking away a TON of his power into the jungle ONLY.

Please, can we (even if its just me and one of you guys) open some kind of discussion about Skarner? These "buffs" QoL changes really feels like a slap in the face to me as an avid Skarner player.

10 Comments

Shahamut1 votes

ggwp boards... buried again... :(

astralwit1 votes

I love the Spire passive. It's super interesting and unique. He'd be a fairly generic champion without it. I really hope they don't get rid of it. It was the best change I've seen to him.

Shahamut1 votes

its not interesting and is a hindrance to him as a champion. I wrote a long post about the problem with the passive from a gameplay/design perspective.

What makes him unique is his ultimate. The spires just added a dumb mini game that requires your team to be ahead in order for Skarner to have a passive. And even if you do control them, he has no access to them in lane or in bases. They don't make him much stronger, and they dont give him any kind of objective control. Post linked below.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/A1I5czRs-my-thoughts-on-skarners-spires-long-post?comment=0014

Infernape1 votes

It isn't that unique. It's basically Dominion but on Summoner's Rift.

astralwit1 votes

{quoted}

It isn't that unique. It's basically Dominion but on Summoner's Rift.

I think it's more unique than his R. It's ultimately just a lockdown mechanic. It's very similar in effect and execution to using Sej or Zac. The spires actually change the way you path, where you can invade, when you can duel etc. It makes his playstyle itself feel different to me.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Bro I've been saying this since they reworked him into this useless spirse. Before I repeat before his q does what it does now only it gave you a stacking bonus for attack speed . Basically gave you what the spires do now. Also runes on him ....lol you need approach velocity due to it makes his ganks 10 times easier and nimbus cloak makes his ult a beast .

AgentForest1 votes

I think the spires are a nice idea poorly implemented. I think a full rework is in order, but that doesn't mean spires shouldn't be a part of it. They should just be a more logical, useful, and reliable element of his kit. For example, what if he got some other passive, and his spires were worked into an active ability in place of his W.

Q - Unchanged. Spammable AoE damage is fine. Maybe work in some % max health damage when near spires.

W - Places a spire, like a ward but with a tiny vision radius. They can be destroyed and are visible but still hide in brush, like Control Wards. Being near a spire builds up a shield on Skarner. This shield provides a speed boost equivalent to how much it has stacked up. This builds up decently fast out-of-combat when near a spire, and gives you an initial amount of stacks the moment you drop one (even in combat). When outside of spire range, you slowly lose that shield/speed buff over time. It isn't lost as fast as it's gained when out-of-combat near a spire, but still encourages him to "take territory" like the Crystal Scar map (may it rest in peace) and his current spire system, but gives him control over where that system is placed.

E - Similarly fires a crystal in a line that marks enemies, but applies a weak slow to them. Basic attacks amplify the strength of this slow. However, if a crystal spire is nearby, they charge up a beam over the target's location and attempt to fire a Lux-style beam at that spot, but narrower and weaker, obviously, with a shorter range. This beam can be dodged, but if Skarner clings to you and slows you enough, dodging is hard, and the beam does okay damage and turns the slow into a stun.

R - Base damage is lower, but each nearby spire also tethers a beam onto the target dealing damage over time as long as they are within range of that spire. One nearby spire would mean pretty much the same damage as before, but more spires nearby means more damage than it has now, maybe scaling down any subsequent spire damage after the first.

I think this would be a great way to keep the same idea without it being so arbitrary, and without feeling punished for not hiding in some set area of the map that serves little purpose like lane objectives do. He could take his spire mechanic to lanes with him, and have a sort of mini-game still without being bound to the jungle and giving away his position all the time. Giving each move an interaction with his spires and letting him place them himself would go a long way toward making this character fun and useful again without damaging his theme.

Shahamut1 votes

The problem is that the spires dont belong in skarners kit at all. Thematically, they dont make any sense. Gameplay wise, they are a hindrance.

Spires being on the map needs to be saved for another champion. and they need to be a smaller not so power consumption part of the kit. Can you imagine if Kindred only got his hunt bonuses against targets he successfully hunted (making each champion have their own hunt count), or if the only applied in certain areas of the map? It would just feel so bad... so it is with Skarner.

EDIT: On a complete side note: Skarner's base damages are the lowest of any champion in the game Im fairly certain. and his scaling is bad as well...

KlydeFrog2 votes

No just revert his spire rework to previous one. On a side note nimbus cloak is strong af on him. He can also lane decently enough people forever scared to dive you post 6

Innerbeast1 votes

I loved the original Skarner, when his e used to heal him. I was alright when his heal turned into a stun, and got used to it. I hate the spires.

Why am I relegated to the jungle camps for spire buffs? Why does Skarner have the only missile in the game that slows down as it passes through minions when there are so many champions with dashes/jumps/flash/etc.? What is the purpose of the q?

The spires only show me how weak I am in team fights or ganks in the lane. I have to dance around a fight if the enemy has my spire until I can capture it and be lucky if I can win a trade. With the increase in radius, it isn't too hindering with team fights in the jungle, but the enemy is usually aware of Skarner's power spike in the spire zone and will try to fight just outside of it.

So Skarner's e slows down as it hits more targets...why? I understand that having a player that can use his e effectively around minions and hit the champion is a mastery thing, but chasing or ganking through a passing minion wave is a huge pain (speaking more-so when the minions aren't a threat to your health, but an obstacle for a kill besides the atrocious collisions some champions have with minions). Yes a slow that turns into a stun is really strong in the right hands, but there are other ways to balance that playing with damage numbers (reducing the missile damage or removing/lessening the break-stun bonus damage). There's no consistency in the missile speed because you hit x amount of units this time and x amount the next time. With all the unhindered cc in the game, Skarner is the ONE with a decaying missile speed that isn't even that fast (original speed/animation lag).

Is the q only there for the passive cdr on the second q? you've destroyed the original concept of it so might as well make it something different. Maybe make it something else we can use to set Skarner in an actual role (tanky engage ability/heavy damage ability). I feel like I'm hitting q just to have the feeling of having 4 abilities. Skarner's q could easily be replaced with...yet another...4th auto-attack proc and there wouldn't be much difference since it doesn't even proc the e bonus effect anymore.

I'm going to ignore (not really) the w - shield that gives 1 buff monster auto-attack worth of protection and a negligable amount of ramp-up movement speed (At least give the w back the full movespeed amount at startup to contend with all these highly mobile champions). I can build health to increase the shield amount, but then I'll do no damage by the time I've built enough shield to have any value (especially since Riot seems to be leaning toward shorter game times with all these money incentives like buffed bounties and armor plating). The full movement speed buff can be a nice unique gap closer for Skarner since all the other movement speed buffs were nerfed to ramp up times (also fits the theme of being ancient and not constricted to the flaws all these younger champions are. Like how a lot of ancient species irl looked and acted more savage before taming down their nature to their current state).

The ultimate, I can leave alone. That is the entirety of Skarner's concept. I can accept that because there are other champions that have the same flaw. I think it gives players a nice new playstyle to work with among all the 100% --> 0% hp ultimates. Something for the people who want to give their teammates some of the glory for finishing off that enemy.

Now, I am not saying Riot needs to implement all of these (yes I am), but at least working its way back in the original direction would help Skarner immensely (and also fit his theme showing how dangerous the past can truly be). A little bit of testing here and there and Skarner might actually be a popular pick for once instead of being forgotten and relying on dumb gimmicks like the spire. YES! The spires are a dumb idea (A bit of salt for you all before I goTeemo)

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