Boards›Gameplay

I still think Fiora's W/passive is too forgiving.

Shahamut··59 votes·2,475 views

The fact that it MASSIVELY slows both movement AND attack speed, even if you parry NOTHING feels like too much. Why not move the attack speed to the reward for using it correctly?

Parry nothing? Minor damage, slows movespeed.

Parry Champion Damage but no cc? Slows attack speed as well.

Parry cc, stun as normal.

Its just annoying that as a melee I can bait out her W and still lose because she massively slows my attack speed in addition for now being a slow moving target for her to dance around.

Also, why can she proc my backside passive by dashing in front of me? or my side that I have shoved into a wall? This feels really bad since I am already limited into how I can move.

She isn't broken or unbeatable, I just think it feels bad when I try to outplay/counter her kit, but her kit won't let me. (situations above)

EDIT: So many of you are not reading what I wrote at all...

I don't think Fiora is OP. I don't think she is unbeatable. I was simply expressing that, to me, it feels bad gameplay wise when you fight her and:

A) successfully bait her party, but can't keep fighting her because of the massive slows attached to a parry that parried nothing. She can still dance around you with little retaliation because of the slows, or she can simply walk away.

B) You position correctly to hide your vital is negated when she Q's max distance to your front and hits the vital in your back.

If these "feel bad" moments were removed, I wouldn't mind her getting some compensation buffs.

Please stop making false assumptions about my thoughts/feelings on Fiora

48 Comments

SithesisLord17 votes

Fiora. Parries no CC, still applies the AS slow, lmao.

Hibeki3 votes

parries NOTHING still applies AS slow, ftfy

420 grams6 votes

It's easily dodgeable though

Shahamut28 votes

its not as easy if you are melee and dont have dashes.

Im an old school Skarner player, so I still insist on playing him outside of jungle. If she puts its right on me as I run at her to bait it, it will 9/10 catch the back side of my model.

That aside, I still just don't like the fact that she is rewarded so much for failing to use it at the proper time. Also, passive procs on my backside when she stabs the front of me just feels bad gameplay wise.

420 grams5 votes

Dodge perpendicular to it, don't try to out run it because that won't work

Shahamut8 votes

I do. It's wide enough though, that if she aims it dead on me, I won't usually make it out in time. It's pretty wide tbh.

Ahri Baka5 votes

Fiora was designed as a duelist , she should win most of 1 vs 1 match ups

Kivolan10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3hK5kmAx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-04T00:03:54.479+0000)

Fiora was designed as a duelist , she should win most of 1 vs 1 match ups

Except her kit still allows for good teamfight potential too with her ult.

Fiora's rework was, in my opinion, a massive failure. %health true damage and the ability to not only block CC, but counter it back onto the caster... They added a tiny bit of counterplay to her ult and removed pretty much every other form of counterplay she had.

Ahri Baka12 votes

{quoted}

Except her kit still allows for good teamfight potential too with her ult.

Fiora's rework was, in my opinion, a massive failure. %health true damage and the ability to not only block CC, but counter it back onto the caster... They added a tiny bit of counterplay to her ult and removed pretty much every other form of counterplay she had.

I don't think I agree , try playing her , she is pretty bad in team fights she is the champion you would never love to teamfight with her at all You can't even see the difference between passive vitals if the enemies are close to each other , especially if you ult someone but you Q to a vital but it hits a vital of someone else and many other problems

Shahamut7 votes

Winning most 1v1's is fine. IF she uses her abilities well. It feels bad to outplay her, but not really because kit.

Ahri Baka5 votes

{quoted}

Winning most 1v1's is fine. IF she uses her abilities well. It feels bad to outplay her, but not really because kit.

Well if you want my opinion , Jax is worse , his E can pretty much dodge all basic attacks and it stuns , it's stronger than Fiora W at some points , at least Fiora needs to put out some moves to hit vitals , Jax can just keep attacking and you are dead

Shahamut11 votes

I do not disagree. Still does not change my opinion that it feels bad when Fiora procs a vital on my back side while staring me in the face. :/

Ahri Baka1 votes

{quoted}

I do not disagree. Still does not change my opinion that it feels bad when Fiora procs a vital on my back side while staring me in the face. :/

Well I guess perma banning her is the solution for you then ..

LordGeovanni1 votes

Fiora is my next choice if vayne didnt do what fiora does but at a range. and if Draven and caitlyn Stays underrated.

Shahamut1 votes

Please read my edit

SilentBomber1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3hK5kmAx,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-04T02:29:21.600+0000)

Well if you want my opinion , Jax is worse , his E can pretty much dodge all basic attacks and it stuns , it's stronger than Fiora W at some points , at least Fiora needs to put out some moves to hit vitals , Jax can just keep attacking and you are dead

As Jax main with 700k mastery points i want to point out that the only difference between counter strike and Parry is that the first is AOE stun and the second is a straight line ability.

It is a matter of skill actually.If you force Fiora to use her W and use that timing to move around her with counter strike you win the trade.Jax is worse indeed compared to Fiora when it has to do with damage and rewards.You can out trade her hard after level 6 and if you buy Bramble vest as first item and ninja tabis later on. ^^

Noone can deny the fact that Fiora's parry is double rewarded fail it or not while compared to jax that is not the case. :)

LordGeovanni6 votes

This is a super poor arguement as if top lane isnt a lane where everyone is either designed as a duelist or a champion to brush off duelists

Ahri Baka1 votes

{quoted}

This is a super poor arguement as if top lane isnt a lane where everyone is either designed as a duelist or a champion to brush off duelists

Don't try to act cool or something , I'm not trying to argue , and no Top lane isn't designed for that

LordGeovanni1 votes

Oh i was trying to act cool where are my raybands and fucking fedora. This is no less trying to attack me with words than calling me an idiot or anything else riot deletes your comments for

LordGeovanni5 votes

rather that the slow shouldnt come out unless she parries damage too.

Bisaknosp2 votes

? you can dodge this ability btw and its not even hard

OP Garen Support2 votes

Old Fiora had cancer ult, new Fiora has cancer kit except the ult. In a way she is more unskilled then Fizz.

kargish2 votes

Personally I just want to see Riot embrace her duelist aspect. Could be something like the warrior ability in WoW, where she declares someone to a duel and then both her and her target deals 50% reduced damage to people other than each other for the duration.

ChaddyFantome4 votes

{quoted}

Personally I just want to see Riot embrace her duelist aspect. Could be something like the warrior ability in WoW, where she declares someone to a duel and then both her and her target deals 50% reduced damage to people other than each other for the duration.

They removed old poppy ulti, which was mechanically similar.

kargish3 votes

Not at all. Poppy could prevent damage taken from everything but 1 champion, while also amplifying her damage significantly. This makes it so 2 champions deal 50% damage less to targets other than each other.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Not at all. Poppy could prevent damage taken from everything but 1 champion, while also amplifying her damage significantly. This makes it so 2 champions deal 50% damage less to targets other than each other.

That basically the same thing but you change numbers around, changing who can deal what damages.

kargish1 votes

Yo mate that was 12 days ago...

And it's far from being the same thing, being immune to damage is not the same as dealing reduced damage.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Yo mate that was 12 days ago...

And it's far from being the same thing, being immune to damage is not the same as dealing reduced damage.

in terms of the mechanics it is. All that is different is the amount of damage you prevent and who you prevent it from...

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying Yasuo's Windwall and Braum's Unbreakable are nothing alike.

kargish1 votes

That is not the same at all. Those two serve the same purpose, the two abilities we've talked about are nothing alike. One serves to prevent damage and make you tunnel vision on 1 target. The other denies the enemy tunnel vision, that's nothing alike.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

That is not the same at all. Those two serve the same purpose, the two abilities we've talked about are nothing alike. One serves to prevent damage and make you tunnel vision on 1 target. The other denies the enemy tunnel vision, that's nothing alike.

Literally the only difference is damage reduction values.

It still makes you tunnel one enemy since you deal more damage to them. It still dicourages enemies from fighting you save your target, since it mitigates damage they deal to you.

The only difference isntead of 0% and 200% Its 50% and 50%.

no to toxic2 votes

If you find her W too forgiving suggest on the boards that they increase the coodlowns in early level so you can fight her when she is at her weakest. If you don´t like her passive then tough luck without it she couldn´t work and would require something stupid like a slow on her Q so she can still kill people who mastered the art of walking away

ChaddyFantome4 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3hK5kmAx,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-04T14:02:10.400+0000)

If you find her W too forgiving suggest on the boards that they increase the coodlowns in early level so you can fight her when she is at her weakest. If you don´t like her passive then tough luck without it she couldn´t work and would require something stupid like a slow on her Q so she can still kill people who mastered the art of walking away

Walking away from a champion with a 1 second , non tatgeted dash. [sg-lulu]

Durzaka3 votes

Good joke.

First, its got a 16 second cooldown at level 1, and 8 second cooldown at level 5. Assuming she actually lands the skill to get the CDR, that makes it 6.4 seconds to 3.2 seconds before any item CD.

Second, it has a 400 range. So ESPECIALLY early she isnt running you down with dashes, and late game she is suppose to be a powerhouse in a 1v1. So I fail to see the issue here.

Shahamut1 votes

Please read my edit.

Durzaka2 votes

Its 1.5 seconds. That means at max she is taking 1 or 2 less autos from the target. if you lose the duel by 1 or 2 autos, then you can complain. But something tells me the fights are more decided than 100 or so hp.

On top of that, if she is successful with her Parry, you are stunned for the same duration. So they cant just move the attack speed slow to a successful Parry.

xelaker2 votes

problem is if she wins the close fight the next fight won't be as close, then sooner or later you either die or lose oodles of farm

DeusVult2 votes

But your not getting hit by W and then just standing there slapping here to death

You will get hit by W and then attempt to trade as you back off, but between your reduced AS and being slowed, Fiora will out trade you. If she does this twice she wins the lane vs just about any opponent.

Its 1.5 seconds but it is a 50% AS slow at all ranks of the ability. Malph rank 5 E is a 50% AS slow for 3 seconds but that is his niche, and nasus scales up to 49% AS slow over the duration of his rank 5 wither.

So going for a trade early in the game and getting hit by W means that you might have your attack speed drop as low as 0.3 That means you will get 1 attack off during the cripple. Just 1. Against a champ who's entire kit is about damage.

Its reminiscent of how ezreals W used to apply an attack speed slow and he would win lane because he would consistently out trade people with it.

Punkkee2 votes

any nerf on fiora will give her a negative winrate, shes balanced right now leave her alone

Shahamut1 votes

Please read my edit

CJ100020002 votes

Ok in my honest opinion as a 500k gold 2 currently last season plat 5 player the only part of her kit that is truest toxic is the w and I have for a long time wanted it to change. For one she is based on fencing and in the sport they never stun anybody and so I found that really weird. For me Fiora is supposed to be super high mobility and so I found it wired that she only ever had one dash and so I thought they would make her w the old way where you would activate it and if you block an AA you then got another q on your w so in theory you could Q to engage then counter any skill/AA and get another Q on your W and then she could use more mobility for more sticking potential.

Pika Fox2 votes

Shes a duelist. Shes also squishy in a lane where a lot of champs are a lot more tanky and sustainy. It fits her play pattern, her theme, and her role in the game. I dont see much reason to complain about it.

Also, if youre "baiting out W", you shouldnt be getting hit by it. You arent "out playing" her if she still hits you with the thing.

Shahamut1 votes

Stabbing you in the back while attacking your front "fits her playstyle"?

You don't "bait w" at max range, you do it melee with threat of cc. Then when you get her to blow it, you are still in melee range and it is not easy to dodge from that range. Getting her to waste her parry, hit by the giant aoe or not, should be a success on my part. The attack speed slow ruins that. She already gets a MS slow which allows her to decide to either continue the dance (since you can't maneuver) or to retreat (since you can't chase), I should at least still be able to AA if she chooses to keep fighting me.

Pika Fox1 votes

Its a skill. It hit you. It has an effect. If she still kills you, then it wasnt a success, now was it?

Hawkefire1 votes

I still don't understand why they don't just remove the attack speed slow from it, that or make it so that the attack speed slow is only triggered if she blocks a champions autoattack with parry. I can understand leaving the movement speed slow in, but coupling that with the attack speed slow is just a bit too much given how strong the ability is.

ReySolomon1 votes

I'm kind of Fine with her winning most of her 1v1's but she does really well in team fights. (That shouldn't happen because that's her weakness?)

Shahamut1 votes

I dont mind her winning 1v1 for the most part either, I just don't like that she can do it while missing Key abilities (W) and by hitting things behind me without actually being behind me (passive).

It makes my "outplay" feel less like an outplay and more like, well at least Im not stunned.

ReySolomon1 votes

{quoted}

I dont mind her winning 1v1 for the most part either, I just don't like that she can do it while missing Key abilities (W) and by hitting things behind me without actually being behind me (passive).

It makes my "outplay" feel less like an outplay and more like, well at least Im not stunned.

Well said bro.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Shahamut

The Precedent has been set...
Player Behavior147 comments
88
votes
What Skarner mains REALLY want...
Gameplay143 comments
79
votes
Does Yasuo really need double crit?
Gameplay163 comments
71
votes
My thoughts on Skarner's Spires [Long Post]
[ARCHIVED] Gameplay+84 comments
40
votes
When is Skarner going to get some love?
Gameplay75 comments
33
votes
@RIOT:Reasons to REMOVE Skarner's spires [long post]
Gameplay18 comments
23
votes