My thoughts on Skarner's Spires [Long Post]

Shahamut··40 votes·38,209 views

Skarner's spires have been a problem since they were introduced. Mostly for Skarner players. The spires themselves, I personally feel, were a poor homage to the late dominion game mode. Overall, they are a poorly thought out/executed ability, and doesn't make sense in either gameplay or lore The rest of this post will attempt to show why that is:

GAMEPLAY Role Diversity: This is a point I brought up with Riotscruffy when the concept was first introduced to the player base. It was shrugged off as an "unfortunate side effect" and pushed through anyway. This season, RIOT stated that one of their goals for champions this season was role diversity, and as long as Skarner has this passive, he is handicapped in ANY role that isn't jungle, and even then, these spires don't exactly do what Riotscruffy was trying to achieve:

Location (objective control): Riotscruffy wanted to attempt to give Skarner a niche in the area of objective control, and he hoped that the spires would do this. Truth is, he should have said "dragon and baron control" since they are only 2 objectives on the map. The primary and most important objectives are Towers, Inhibitors, and the enemy Nexus. Skarner's spires give no power in those areas, either allied or enemy. Truth be told, they don't even give him any kind of real advantage in controlling Baron or Dragon either. Abilities like Nunu' s "Consume", Cho'Gath's "Feast", or Kalista's "Rend are better at controlling Baron or Dragon, since they add burst to your smite ability and make it harder to steal for the enemy, and easier for you to steal. Another problem that bleeds into this one is:

Location (indication): If the enemy team controls the spire and you want to take Dragon or Baron as Skarner, you either have to A) Let the entire enemy team know you are taking it or B) do it without your spire bonus. In both cases, the spires fail to aid you in controlling the objective: which was their stated purpose. It's also problematic for counterjungling for the same reason. It either tells the enemy where you are, or it doesn't get used to keep your position hidden. #feelsbadman

Location (jungle camps): the spires location presents one other small problem in their location: they don't cover all the camps. Gromp is minor since you can kite him into the zone, but Krugs, the camp that typically takes the longest to clear, is outside of the zone influence completely. This is a minor point, but is still a point none the less.

Feast or Famine (mostly famine): when it first released, it seemed as though it was a mostly feast zone: no one could fight Skarner in those zones at pretty much any point in the game. His clear speed was extrodinary, and he farmed himself into a lead and kept it. They obviously tuned that down... way down. Now, it's mostly famine. Skarner isn't much stronger in his zone till much later in the game, and if your team is losing, you will NEVER control these special zones, completely denying Skarner's already limited passive which consumes a decent portion of his power budget. Being able to completely deny this much of his power, which is already limited by location (meaning he pretty much has no passive when defending base or closing out games) is just bad design, imho.

LORE

Zone control doesn't really make sense: Sure, the beginning of the lore makes Skarner a guardian, but that isn't where the story leaves us. Skarner is on the move, searching for the lost Crystals of his brethren. He is hunting. If Skarner were to find these life stones lying around, he would certainly not leave them there but take them back to his dying brethren.

Each Brakken draws it's power from a SINGLE life stone: Skarner's current passive has him drawing power from multiple crystals on the map. According to the lore, he only draws life and power from one life stone: the one fused to his tail.

BONUS

Venomous Stings: Mentioned in the lore, but not truly expressed in his kits design/execution.

Skarner's class: Understanding Skarner is apparently a bit of a chore as no one (player base or RIOT employees) can agree on what Skarner IS. I will state my opinion, but let's start with a little bit of history:

Upon release, Skarner was described as a "true hybrid fighter". In those days, concepts where much simpler. Your melee characters were basically decided into one of 2 categories: Tanks and Fighters. (Can't remember if assassin's were a class yet). Skarner was a fighter: a melee damage dealer. His was described as a hunter, dragging lonely victims to their inevitable doom.

As time went on, RIOT began the monumental task of trying to better define classes to aid them in their design choices and to help new players understand the strengths that a particular champion brings to the table. Now, at first everyone agreed that Skarner was in fact a fighter: melee champion with a sustained damage pattern, but when they created the subclasses, they didn't really make a subclass that truly fit Skarner, making him a bit of an odity. So, they threw him into the juggernaut class.

As a juggernaut Skarner was unique, in that he had most of the tools Juggernauts were supposed to lack, namely more than one soft cc: ranged slow, stun, supression. His damage was sufficient, but it gave him too much overall. So Riot nerfed his damage.

As these changes took place, it became clear that he wasn't a juggernaut; but he was still a fighter right? Riot moved him into the diver class. The problem with Skarner as a diver, is that he doesn't play like one. Skarner has no jumps, blinks or dsshes with which to bypass an enemy frontline (see Jax or Rek'Sai). His damage had been hit pretty hard still as well, so Skarner was feeling more like a tank now then before. Wanting to keep that aggressive playstyle in mind, he is now described as a vanguard, or initiating tank.

Skarner has suffered long enough from this identity crisis in my opinion. Skarner is a hunter, his lore describes his fighting as ferocious, his quotes "limb from limb!" and his motivation to tirelessly seek the life crystals of his dying brethren all point to a damage dealing chase you down and kill you at all cost to get back what's rightfully mine kind of character. He is passionate, motivated and ready to do what's necessary. Let's look at his kit:

Q: Crystal Slash- I like the aoe of this ability, as it sort of displays the ferocious and untamed combat I would expect from this champion. It powers up after the initial strike, showing a progressive sort of rage which fits nicely, especially with Skarner's new lore. As an X-Skarner main, it's also iconic in that up until the juggernaut fiasco, this was Skarner's main skill, and it pushed his dps playstyle.

W: Crystalline Exoskeleton- Originally, Skarner also had healing in his kit. But it was weak and hard to balance so it was removed. W, remains as Skarner's one form of what I call sudo-sustain. At max rank, (and if you rush cdr... you should) it's a low cooldown shield that also empowers Skarner to chase down his enemies. Built in counter play allows you to break his shield to slow his advance.

E: Fracture- currently, Skarner's E is overloaded as heck, but I will stick to it's core functionality: a ranged skill shot that slows targets down, allowing Skarner a better chance at catching them. They brought back the Mark and proc for some added cc (stun). Still, originally, this was your last skill to max, and provided the utility needed to make Skarner not 110% kite-able, assuming you can land Skill shots.

R: Impale- Skarner's most iconic ability, a single target suppression that allows him to relocate a target victim manually.

So what is Skarner's kit good at?

Sustained damage: Skarner's primary source of damage is Auto Attacks and Q spam. Though the AoE from Q is nice periferal damage, I wouldn't call it 1v2 material in and of itself, rhough it certainly helps.

AoE: the AoE from his Q and E makes him good at clearing jungle camps and minion waves. This means he could potentially be a powerful farm jungler or even split pusher.

Single Target CC: Yes, currently you could potentially stun multiple people after one cast of his E (fracture), but I can tell you from experience that it is VERY rare. Certainly not a common enough occurrence to call it a thing he does. Single Target cc chaining Though? That is a thing he does.

Map mobility: His low cooldown W allows Skarner to move around the map pretty well.

Conclusion: much to the disagreement of many (no surprise right?) I believe Skarner is a Skirmisher. He wants to hunt and fight lone targets. His kit makes him great at 1v1 dueling, having good tools for split pushing and catching people out between lanes. Like all good Skirmishers, Skarner has useful things in his kit if behind so as not to be completely irrelevant (Yasuo windwall, Fiora aoe heal). In teamfights, and when behind, his cc is best used to peel, keeping divers and assassins off of his carry.

I have made many suggestions on different ways to fix Skarner. My most recent is closest to his state prior to the juggernaut changes (which was my favorite version). I will provide a link here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tYUrcpoX-remove-skarner-spires

I hope that a red will read and respond to this. Thanks to anyone who read the whole thing.

"I miss my kind..."

EDIT: Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion. Wanted to add some of my favorite parts of this conversation to the main post:

Zone Control is probably bad design for a moba: Zone control, meaning the kind that current Skarner has. Skarner cannot win the game by guarding these zones: Winning in a MOBA requires you to push forward, take towers, and eventually the nexus. (This is not to be confused with "zoning" which is a skill that good players have and use when they have advantage over their opponent to further deny resources/set them further behind/take objectives.)

I think if Riot was to introduce another of Skarner's brothers as a champion, the warlock theme could work very nicely given the lore of Skarner's race and how the Crystals share experiences and knowledge with their new hosts.

To iterate my thoughts on current Skarner:

Currently, I believe he is a Warden. As a tank, he has the least amount of damage in the game. And I think more of the modern tanks need to look at how much damage Skarner does and model it. Most tanks still do heck tons of damage, while building full tank. I rush Trinity Force on Skarner, and I still deal close to the least damage on the team, and I can proc sheen a LOT. XD Point being, more tanks need to do damage like current Skarner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIt2DPMYvcg&feature=youtu.be

Skarner needs to go back to being a fighter and a damage dealer. His kit and playstyle fit that of a Skirmisher, and his cc allows him to still be somewhat useful if behind.

84 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectar20 votes

Going to take a mental note of this thread. Skarner was one of the champs on a short list of champs we were willing to explore at sort of a Xin Zhao level, and one of the leading ideas was to remove spires and replace it with something else. Unfortunately I don't have much beyond that to add here at this time, but you clearly put a lot of thought into this, and I'll forward it along to the designer who ends up taking on that project in the future!

TheSingularity2 votes

Hello how goes your, Wednesday? Time zones confuse me are you a day ahead of Aus or a day behind?

While you don't have much on his future direction, would I be able to get a few opinions out of you?

What's your favorite version of skarner?

Would a revert to crystal venom skarner be a possible temporary fix until he gets proper work?

Thanks a tonne for stopping by [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Naqel2 votes

Skarner's kit was at it's best on release, the closer to that we can return, the better.

Bârd1 votes

IMO, the iteration directly before the juggernaut rework was the best one.

I'd rather have Crystal Venom than a heal on Fracture.

Shahamut1 votes

Agreed. See my rework idea-

It basically takes what worked from the juggernaut update (his stun being on E) and removes the bonus damage from the proc in favor of mana regen. Then takes that bonus damage and puts it on a passive Tail strike every X attacks. Add a weakening effect and now you have a poisonous tail strike. XD

Shahamut4 votes

My dream has come true...!!!!

TY so much for stopping in!

I have made so many threads about this topic, and none of them ever got anywhere. Thank the gameplay+ boards, and thank you Maple Nectar!

Iręlía2 votes

If there are ANY changes, Maple, just please ensure he's a tanky AS duelist again with hard sticking power. (a revert to the previous iteration is a good start)

It's what all of us Skarner players want, what's left of us.

The fact that you EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED this thread rn, is making me swell with some tears.

THANK YOU!

Sincerely Yours, Skarner One Trick S3-S5, Skarner Main S5-Present

Necrozard1 votes

Would that be a coherent idea to remove the "supression" from his ult and only keep the "forced mobility" ?

Like a stronger Tahm Kench's W, but it's more fair because the enemy can still fight back.

Less power on his ult would mean more power for his regular kit.

Predatoratorr1 votes

thank you so much! I think it'd be really appreciate if you culd coordinate with the playerbase, as the update will happen, sort of the rengar/fizz update

Sharpest glasses1 votes

Skarner was one of the champs on a short list of champs we were willing to explore at sort of a Xin Zhao level, and one of the leading ideas was to remove spires and replace it with something else.

Bring the list pls ?!

MonkeyKing Nocturne Diana JarvanIV Annie ?

Bârd1 votes

Ezreal Jax Blitzcrank were the three they mentioned by name.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

thanks

Relámpago1 votes

I know this is beyond a longshot but im gonna drop the no-no word because its been done for kog maw and leblanc.....revert pls

Shahamut1 votes

Kind of a late reply, but when the project is assigned, could said individual or yourself come back here to comment and let us know it's happening?

Is there a time frame for this project to be assigned?

Oleandervine1 votes

I think Skarner could benefit from an Aatrox level VGU instead of a Xin level GU.

Shahamut1 votes

Hey Maple, its me again.

Have we had any more discussion on when/if this is going to be happening? Its been a few months now, and I don't want to keep recreating new threads to get updates/attention.

Just curious. Even a simple "eh its preseason right now, bigger fish to fry" would suffice for now. Please let me know!

Leonîdas6 votes

Riot pls read this post

Jeddite5 votes

I agree -- Skarner's default splash art is terrible. Like, Old Old Soraka terrible.

Zero Skill Tank4 votes

The most iconic part of Skarner's kit is his ult, which doesn't fit a skirmisher at all. For that reason alone he will never be balanced as such.

mack91123 votes

His kit feels like a udyr but with a team fight oriented ultimate ability. I do feel his identity as a champion has been lost . In your personnel opinion what would be a good replacement for his spire passive ? Should he still have access to the stat steroid they give him but through a different mechanic ?

Shahamut1 votes

I actually posted a link to a reworked concept XD

I liked his passive pre-juggernaut, it had counterplay, and rewarded Skarner for sticking to his target long enough to get the 3 stacks. In the speed of the new/current meta, however, I think the stun simply being on his E is better, though I changed his E to grant mana regen on proc instead of more damage.

The passive I suggested was a poison sting attack every so many attacks 5/4/3 I think I did based on level, which dealt bonus magic damage equal to a SMALL amount of % Max HP and lowered the targets damage by 10% for 1.5 seconds.

Keep in mind, the Skarner I played and loved, in my mind, was a duelist, so this ability made more sense to me. I also liked the idea of him using his tail/poison more, making it seem like it was a more integral part of his fighting arsenal.

EDIT Rereading, I actually see you asked several questions XD

2 of them I answered but one I did not:

  1. I think some kind of poisonous strike would be a better passive.

  2. I think his identity as a fighter has been lost, I always felt he was a duelist/skirmisher (modern terminology) and currently, he is just an ult bot. In a meta where pretty much everyone can do CRAP tons of damage, Skarner, still doesn't. He's been made into a non-modernzed tank. (See how most tanks have high base damages and %HP damage in their kits? Maokai is a great example, or Ornn)

  3. I think his stat Steroids fit best on his Q- Crystal Slash. It used to be his primary offensive ability, where as now it is not much more than a glorified sheen proc. You get more utility and upfront damage from his E, so you max E first now. Making Skarner have to stay "in combat" by hitting enemies with his Q in order to have his steroid was fair and balanced. Mana gates him early from doing it too often, and if you dont want to fight him, you can play passive and stay in areas where he won't have anything to proc Q on, thus making him start the fight with zero stacks and no bonus damage.

mack91122 votes

Im sorry i didnt notice that part . That does seem like a good idea but i do feel the damage reduction would make it very difficult to trade with him.

Shahamut1 votes

Also, his Kit, imo feels very different to Udyr, though in general the playstyle is indeed very similar. Udyr has more upfront damage, like a good juggernaut, but Skarner has a ranged slow to help with closing in on a target and more sustained damage over time.

mack91122 votes

Do you believe he should be tuned as jungler or as a laner ?

Shahamut2 votes

Either is fine. Im partial to laning, since that is how I used to play him all the time, but I think he is cool in the jungle as well. As long as he is able to do both, and not be restricted by his kit, he could be balanced either way and I would be ok with that.

SpecterVonBaren10 votes

Give him back Crystal Venom.

TheSingularity4 votes

Agreed. That version of skarner got me into him, then a few months later he got reworked again... It wasn't magical or super fancy, but it was effective in what it was there to do and it provided a little more depth (insta ult, or get full stacks then ult?)

At this point anything else would be better than spires

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

What I miss most was being able to wad into a big teamfight and while using his Q start getting stacks on multiple people and just mini-stunning them one after another.

Scuttle3 votes

I feel like he just needs a complete VGU. His splash and model are old, no one plays him, and the mechanics you mention pigeonhole him into jungle.

I'd be interested to hear from a Rioter if he's currently being considered for one. He could be a very badass champion, if he was only given some attention.

Iręlía2 votes

I doubt he would be pigeonholed into jg with just these changes. As he currently is I play him Top Lane with moderate success sometimes.

On the VGU side, I'm in love with the way the champ currently is and sounds. Something looking monsterous yet so compassionate and sad.

I connect with the champ very well and I don't want these aspects to change about him.

ZaneShadow2 votes

I honestly think that if at level 6 he could drag his crystals around the map with his Ult, he’d be a much healthier champion. But that’s from the outside looking in

Shahamut2 votes

It would only add a completely unnecessary and irritating mechanic to the game to have to move those things around constantly. Im sorry, but the spires just need to go. They add nothing interesting to the gameplay, pigeon hole him into the jungle, and don't even make sense/jive with his lore.

Garen's "Villian" mechanic would make more sense on Skarner, since he is hunting for those who have taken his brethren's crystals.

Flemman1 votes

moving spire (at the cost of ulti locked out+ some timer after dropping it) is the best way to go to fix the actual ideration of the kit tho. (but they should make it so there is only one on the map, the one linked to skarner)

If you are able to move it, you aren't pigeon hole in the jgl anymore and can gain some lane pressure as a fighter. You can also decide were you want to take fight instead of the game deciding it for you (can move in base if behind or next the enemy one if you search a push to victory while taking the risk of losing controle of them in the process) This also fit with the lore where his race must take care of one crystal, interacting with them, protect them. They aren't something Brackern keep away from them.

In regard to Garen's vilain mechanic, it would make no sense on skarner, even more if you remove the crystal from the rift . As much as there is a reason for garen to call an enemy champion a vilain if he killed an ally, there is none for skarner to hunt champ who aren't related to the Brackern's crystals mining at all

Shahamut1 votes

In regard to Garen's vilain mechanic, it would make no sense on skarner, even more if you remove the crystal from the rift .

His "villian mechanic" would make more sense than crystal spires passive, in that once a champion was "discovered to have a Brakern crystal on them" (marked as the villian) Skarner would get bonus stats of some kind to represent his fervor in hunting them down. (In Garen's case, it was more true damage)

Im not saying its a good idea or that I think it should happen, just saying that even THAT makes more sense than his spire passive.

Flemman1 votes

but why would they have a crystal on them? what will trigger it in game?

you need to answers that if you really want that mechanic to have sense

Shahamut1 votes

holy cow dude, Im not designing or advicating for this ability XDXDXD People stole his crystals, he is vigorously hunting them down.

ALL IM SAYING is that it would make MORE sense than some GIANT CRYSTALS STICKING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE THAT GIVE HIM POWER.

Thats all Im saying XDXD

Obviously, there would be some kind of trigger, there doesn't need to be an "on the rift reason" for them to "have a crystal". Otherwise Jayce would be perma-marked, because he HAS one.

Regardless, you are blowing this way out of its intended meaning. XD

Flemman2 votes

and what i say is no, that doesn't make MORE sense than actual shrine if there isn't a mechanical reason behind it. It's just put that there for the sake of turning him into rengar/garen

At least, even if there design have some flaws like dictating where you can play or being more than one, the shrine being a zone who powerup skarner have some sence considering his race have a spiritual link with them, granting them more power when they finally find the one they are connected to

What could work tho is a mix of the 2, skarner start with a crystal that he can move/place where he want, granting him power and making him act like a defender around it like in the first part of the lore. Then, if ennemy manage to take it away from him, instead of the actual interaction where it just lay down, they could pick it up in the buff bar and serve as the trigger for the vilain mechanic you want (make sense he want to hunt the one picking his crystal), turning him into the hunter from the second part of the lore. (give him ms/bonus spell effect and/or special ping every 30 s where the crystal holder is)

Shahamut1 votes

Im not designing or advicating for this ability

Im not saying its a good idea or that I think it should happen

serve as the trigger for the vilain mechanic you want

Are you even reading...?

Flemman1 votes

and are you even trying to understand my point?

I think spire make sense as much as the hunt thing as skarner is a 2 side champion, a protector when crystal are safe and a "hunter" when there is nothing to protect. (funny thing, that would class him either vanguard or warden depending on his mind state)

I had explain why I think both can coexist in a skarner kit but as you just want the spire to go, you seem not open to the discussion of making them work better/in a healty way for both side.

I just want you to explain why, character wise, one facet of skarner (hunter) should be choose over the other (protector) to design futur change on the champ.

Shahamut1 votes

There is a very long and detailed post about how the spires do not actually fit in the game from a gameplay or lore perspective.

You simply say "we could make it work" but the point is that they don't work, and Skarner's lore would have to actually change, drastically, for them to make sense in that regard.

Even if we say, "sure, Skarner is a protector" (Even though that facet only lasts a few minutes at best as he awakens to what are essentially grave robbers), the Spires in the game do not achieve any kind of protective gameplay. The bonus they give, are not defensive, and for a moba, a ZONE DEFENSE, of any kind, does not make sense for gameplay. Protectors in a moba (aka Wardens) have kits designed to protect their allies. Which makes sense, and allows them to use their kit around the map as they work together towards their goal.

The spires don't achieve any of this. They are ZONES, that can be denied, do not grant any actual objective control to Skarner's kit, and certainly don't add any defensive stats or abilities to protect his allies. In fact, all they do is give him offensive stats. The spires are bad design, and don't achieve any kind of "defensive" gameplay or translate any kind of "Im a protector" lore.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Honestly skarner would be better off with a bard like passive Gathering crystals

Passive could be like so:

Every 3th attack skarner stings his opponent poisoning them

Poison deals 10 to 180 based on level + 5% health damage

Then the amount of crystals you collect give added effects Increased damage a slow increasing with more crystals A grounded effect at certain threshold increasing to full length of poison duration after gathering even more crystals

Crystals collected could also give other stats or abilities this is just an example

we have a few of these collecting champions like thresh and bard one more would be nice and it fits his lore

He is collecting all these crystals right he could borrow their power for a bit as he has to lug them around until he gets back to his kind

Shahamut2 votes

I would mind this kind of passive a LOT less than the current one :)

SanKakU1 votes

Why not let him pull his spires around with his ultimate and then since he's pulling the spires, his ultimate does not go on cooldown.

Shahamut3 votes

that would make ZERO sense. The point of this thread is not, "how can we MAKE spires ok for gameplay." its Why the spires are not good game design, nor do they fit his lore.

But to address you more specifically: Letting him blow his ult on moving the rocks around is nothing but feelsbadman for Skarner's ult usage, especially since the rocks can and WILL still be contested by opponents. Its one of the core problems with its design: His passive, which is what his kit sort of revolves around currently, and is a HUGE part of his power budget, is 100% deniable by the enemy team. They can capture them, or just avoid fighting around them except to contest important dragons and baron.

Predatoratorr1 votes

Unpopular opinion: the vgu should keep the spire mechanic. I mean, the way they got implemented is bad and got flaws, but I like how they add another layer of gameplay to skarner's pattern, more macro oriented.
they are a good starting point to make skarner unique from other champions, but clearly they were rushed and got their flaws, and only a vgu would be necessary to make them feel better from a gameplay, and lore perspective.

Edit: I loved crystal venom skarner, as it was his best iteration in my opinion, from both character fantasy, to gameplay. so I think if they spire won't work, they should just revert his jugg update, and assess from there.

Shahamut2 votes

The spires do not add any depth of gameplay. Skarner's pattern is LESS macro with the spires, because they are completely irrelevant to the most important macro objectives in the game: Towers.

They add a whole ton of what RIOT calls "mind share" to both teams and they don't offer anything meaningful to either team.

I 100% agree that Crystal Venom Skarner was his absolute best iteration. Which is why I wish they would revert him until he gets his vgu.

Frontline Fury1 votes

Oh no... Whenever i start maining a champion people start talking about reworks immediately. Sigh.

Personally, i won’t make any claims to changes skarner should recieve. In my opinion his only true fault is that there are too few spires on the map, specifically outside or towards the edge of the jungles.

When it comes to his playstyle i actually have to disagree about your combat pattern - his auto attacks and Q are his most VISIBLE tools, but (especially outside his zones) his E is actually the real key to his strength, and i enjoy it a lot.

Why is this?

His E provides his spire passive. Most people realize this. What you may not realize, however, is that his E also features a cooldown refund on proc.

This made me play ( and thoroughly enjoy ) lane skarner. Especially at 40% cdr, you can often proc the E stun back to back if you hit minions before a champion - the projectile slows down with each target, so the stun debuff can potentially be applied when the cooldown is already counted down, allowing you to reapply it (and its damage) immediately with skillful play.

Now, of course, this would make him too much of a one trick pony, relying on a slow skillshot.

And that’s where the thing that makes it tolerable comes into play. His ult also procs his E passive, lowering the E cooldown.

My ”game changer” trick? Land E - Ult - Proc E - land E again.

His E, when used well, does in fact turn him into a juggernaut. Granted, ideally used defensively unlike most other juggernauts - but even building full tank his E combos can hit like a truck, especially against marksmen.

It used to be semi-viable when mages (mid) and enchanters (support) didnt get health from half their AP items. These days they’re unfortunately tankier than most bruisers, so you’re better off targeting the opposing top lane / jungle to peel for your team and draw attention to yourself.

I’m not saying Skarner is in a good spot - but i’d say he’s in much less of an identity crisis than, say, mordekaiser. Or Garen with his triforce.

Shahamut2 votes

When it comes to his playstyle i actually have to disagree about your combat pattern - his auto attacks and Q are his most VISIBLE tools, but (especially outside his zones) his E is actually the real key to his strength, and i enjoy it a lot.

I think you misunderstand me: I know that currently, his E is his best skill. Its overloaded. His Kit used to revolve around his sticking to a target and fighting them. His E max status as of now makes his damage bursty and up front, which I dont like being an old Skarner main.

My ”game changer” trick? Land E - Ult - Proc E - land E again.

Anyone who plays Skarner in lane has to know this trick. Its the only way you can actually kill people. Most of the time, I catch people and drag them under tower. Between ignite, Ult, stun, slow, stun- its practically a guaranteed kill.

Again, this is my problem as an old Skarner main, is that my combat pattern has been completely altered, into something that doesn't fit the character's thematic, or lore, or appearance.

I’m not saying Skarner is in a good spot - but i’d say he’s in much less of an identity crisis than, say, mordekaiser. Or Garen with his triforce.

Morde is the other red-headed step child in league and I feel for his mains. Garen is in no way having an identity crisis. Skarner has changed from a sticky damage dealer, to a slightly less sticky damage dealer, to a tank without any of the modern tank benefits like %HP damage, to an ult bot that only really functions by making picks for teammates or peeling for his carry. His identity as a hunter has been completely reversed.

His E, when used well, does in fact turn him into a juggernaut. Granted, ideally used defensively unlike most other juggernauts - but even building full tank his E combos can hit like a truck, especially against marksmen.

Any kind of chain cc hits like a truck vs Marksmen. I garantee that a Full-Tank Maokai//Ornn//Poppy (Tanks) would kill an adc faster than Skarner. His damage is actually that low. E doesn't turn him into a juggernaut. That doesn't even make sense. His damage is never that high. Udyr, Illaoi, Mundo, Darius- Those are juggernauts, and Skarner in no way compares to them in damage.

Rouwhorst1 votes

One should not force champions into a category that quick. What happens then is that changes happen for the sake of the champion fitting in. Which is of course nonsense, the categories are descriptive of a particular play style of a champion (group), not an enforcer of them.

Shahamut2 votes

Agreed. I think this was the biggest problem with the juggernaut update: They had to change so much of his kit to try and make him feel like a juggernaut.

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