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What Skarner mains REALLY want...

Shahamut··79 votes·21,781 views

A simple revert to crystal venom Skarner.

Dear riot,

As someone who has loved skarner since he started playing league, I have been with you and on board with changes to my favorite champion since he really didnt have much going for him in his release state. I was a LITTLE bit offended by his champion teaser since they kept killing him and saying "worth", but Im over that.

Many Skarner mains agree, however, that the juggernaut Skarner changes were bad for him, SPECIFICALLY the crystal spire passive. I have detailed out many times about why the design is bad, but in case you missed my huge thread about it:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/A1I5czRs-my-thoughts-on-skarners-spires-long-post

This feeling, of course, is only made WORSE by the fact that several rioters, namely riot scruffy, agreed that the juggernaut update was definitely NOT a success for Skarner, going as far to say, "if we were to do it over again, I would probably not have gone with Skarner at all, since I probably could have gotten more bang for my buck with a different champion." (loosely quoted, hard to find original source)

Riot Repertoir straight up says the spires were not a success. In this same discussion, he also straight up said they have no plans to rework Skarner again. How depressing is that? Can Ryze have the same treatment? Why, would you take a stance that says you are not going to rework something that has clearly failed? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/T5MTYIIt-followup-skarner-juggernaut-update?show=rundown

Would also like to point out, as I did in my mega thread about the spires, that they in fact do NOT make him better at "controlling" objectives. The spires do not succeed in giving him a niche as an objective controller, they only serve as a crutch that breaks outside of the jungle, or if your team is losing.

I think a lot of Skarner's problem is the fact that you guys do not agree on what you want Skarner to be. I think this is the wrong question, however, and you should instead ask, what was Skarner INTENDED to be. So, what was he intended to be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxbEDJykcI

Skarner is stated to be a "melee fighter who excels not only at dealing damage, but also controlling the battlefield." "Utilizing basic attacks in addition to his abilities, Skarner is a true hybrid fighter."

This is the fantasy that Skarner players fell in love with. He was a sticky, chase you down damage dealing scorpion. This was best played out just before the juggernaut rework, Crystal Venom Skarner.

Juggernaut Skarner has exactly ONE thing working for him right now, and guess what? Its not his Crystal Spire passive. Its his single target cc chain. If you rush cdr, by level 10 with Transcendence you will be able to E (slow) walk up, R (drag back and turn), AA for stun, E, AA for stun with little to no chance of the enemy being able to react. This cc chain is NECESSARY, because Skarner can't deal enough damage to an equal target to kill them even in this amount of time right now.

His presence in the pro-scene hurts me. He builds full tank, does no damage, and basically is just on the map to delay carry builds by forcing them to buy QSS, because he also runs predator. He is an ult bot, and nothing more. What has happened? What brought us to this point. We all know the answer to this.

Riot, Skarner is barely a champion right now. So many champions have been reverted because of game health. Skarner is not in a healthy state because of his passive. Please, can we at least open discussion on this topic? This may be a small portion of the player base, as far as mains go, but we should be no less important to you as a company.

EDIT: Thank you so much everyone. Riot, you are the only ones missing from this conversation. Please dont keep ignoring us!

143 Comments

eFAR021 votes

Right now I am D1 as a one trick Skarner, and I am ranked as the #1 Skarner NA on another account. If you want to know my opinion, I think that too many Skarner players do not use the correct itemization. Skarner is not optimal as a full tank, and he is much more effective as a bruiser dmg threat.

What I think would really make Skarner feel a lot better to play without becoming overbearing would be some of these things:

+25 attack range, +5 base movespeed +30% slow resistance while W shield persists

  • R cast time removed

Some of the insane slows in the game make skarner feel absolutely terrible to play, and I think giving some agency to Skarner players when it comes to counterplaying against them would make the champion feel much better overall.

Shahamut8 votes

{quoted}

Right now I am D1 as a one trick Skarner, and I am ranked as the #1 Skarner NA on another account. If you want to know my opinion, I think that too many Skarner players do not use the correct itemization. Skarner is not optimal as a full tank, and he is much more effective as a bruiser dmg threat.

What I think would really make Skarner feel a lot better to play without becoming overbearing would be some of these things:

+25 attack range, +5 base movespeed +30% slow resistance while W shield persists

  • R cast time removed

Some of the insane slows in the game make skarner feel absolutely terrible to play, and I think giving some agency to Skarner players when it comes to counterplaying against them would make the champion feel much better overall.

I can definitely agree that these things would help. I still feel that his BIGGEST hold back, however is his passive. Its eating WAY too much power budget, and Skarner still doesn't deal a great deal of damage even when building for it.

I climbed from Silver 3 (starting rank this season, previous season hard stuck Gold 3) all the way to Plat 2 playing Skarner in top lane (yes, Im THAT masochistic). Most of my builds prioritize attack speed and movespeed and cdr and Skarner feels WAY better to play when you can build things like Trinity + Wits End (now has MS), grab a Righteous Glory and then go for GA or Steraks. But even when I hard carry games, I still don't have really high damage to show for it. Skarner's base/scaling for damage is actually really bad. Possibly the worst in the game :/

KlydeFrog1 votes

It's probably your runes and build, if your not going transcedance and nimbus cloak your wrong. I can go top supp jungle and top is the only one where I go grasp rune page

TheSingularity9 votes

Tbf if his power wasnt locked behind spires, he'd b much better in a lane

Shahamut8 votes

{quoted}

Tbf if his power wasnt locked behind spires, he'd b much better in a lane

Also, TbF his power being locked in spires affects his ability to gank as well. since, ya know, they aren't in lanes.

Tahminatrix 10 votes

Idk whats stopping riot from giving skarner the KogMaw treatment and reverting him...

Isnt it also weird that riot never compensated skarner for the synergy removal of item 3078 and item 3053 , skarner was reliant on that item combo in order to scale into a decent duelist since he had such good base damage per level, but then riot changed sterak`s from giving base ad to bonus ad.....

Riot said they wouldn't need to compensate anyone since changing steraks from base to bonus would mean it would now give damage on abilities instead of autos....

But skarner`s q scales with TOTAL ad....so all they did was nerf his sheen procs?

Shahamut6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYwQGVPX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-31T21:02:44.862+0000)

Idk whats stopping riot from giving skarner the KogMaw treatment and reverting him...

Isnt it also weird that riot never compensated skarner for the synergy removal of item 3078 and item 3053 , skarner was reliant on that item combo in order to scale into a decent duelist since he had such good base damage per level, but then riot changed sterak`s from giving base ad to bonus ad.....

Riot said they wouldn't need to compensate anyone since changing steraks from base to bonus would mean it would now give damage on abilities instead of autos....

But skarner`s q scales with TOTAL ad....so all they did was nerf his sheen procs?

Im not sure either, but its a bit rediculous. No other champion is so entirely locked into one role by a passive that is actually not good for the role its intended for. Most in particular because riot doesnt seem to like power farming junglers.

EDIT: and yeah, he never received any compensation for the lack of damage... Skarner has the WORST base damage and scaling in the game. Tanks do more damage than Skarner does.

"Oh, but skarner deals more damage over time!" Except he doesn't anymore. Damage is so high on even tanks like Maokai or Nautilus that their base damage plus 40% cdr means they will out damage Skarner long term if he isn't building attack speed. And if he IS building attack speed, he is probably dead.

Hemulen Magi9 votes

I think Skarner should just get a new passive. That would require fewer resources than another full rework and would have less chance of alienating his players.

My suggestion is some sort of burrowing passive. He could burrow into the ground and then leap out to ambush opponents, like a trapdoor spider. He could also have his spire locations replaced with buried "crystal energy caches" (soulstones of his kin) that he can burrow into to restore health and mana. The crystal caches would slowly regenerate their energy supply over time after use, so using a variety of caches would result in more sustain.

Shahamut6 votes

Thanks so far to everyone who has commented thus far! Lets keep it up! Lets go for 10k views and keep it on the front page!

Ionian Vulpix4 votes

What if he could erect his own spires? Say he got a few from the shop, staring with 3 at the beginning of the game and refilled whenever he backed. He could activate them in his inventory to place them wherever he wants? Maybe he could get more with points in his Ult?

9 03 votes

Skarner mains exist? Well. I respect you.

Predatorator3 votes

It boggles my mind, there have been requests of reverting skarner ever since the jugg update happened, riot stated he's tier 1 candidate for a vgu a year or 2 ago, and then nothing, not even a bit of "we're discussing about him".

However i'm sure a big part of the reason is that he's been picked alot in proplay lately, to be built as a tanky cc-bot.

Edit: also the rework you proposed earlier was really good, but a revert would require much less resources

Shahamut1 votes

{quoted}

It boggles my mind, there have been requests of reverting skarner ever since the jugg update happened, riot stated he's tier 1 candidate for a vgu a year or 2 ago, and then nothing, not even a bit of "we're discussing about him".

However i'm sure a big part of the reason is that he's been picked alot in proplay lately, to be built as a tanky cc-bot.

Edit: also the rework you proposed earlier was really good, but a revert would require much less resources

Thanks!

His existence in the pro scene just makes me so sad... the Skarner of today just isn't the Skarner so many of us fell in love with... he is boring to watch in pro play as well. Too predictable.

Predatorator4 votes

{quoted}

Thanks!

His existence in the pro scene just makes me so sad... the Skarner of today just isn't the Skarner so many of us fell in love with... he is boring to watch in pro play as well. Too predictable.

It's ironic: One of the points for the jugg update was to give skarner something else to do while his ult Is on cd. Now more than ever he's just picked only to ult people

Walmart Karen3 votes

I fully and totally agree. I used to be a skarner main, played him the most, has all his skins pretty much. They indeed locked him in the jungle with that rework. In my opinion, his whole kit feels outdated, including his ULT, yes. I know it hurts to say, but it's just way to simplistic to just ULT someone under tower (like 80% how it's usually used) or even the preferred combo of flash+Ulting the carry. He needs some work to be interesting to play, so that you can make more interesting plays than the usual flash+ULT lol.

Shahamut2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hillary Chillton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYwQGVPX,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:19:17.379+0000)

I fully and totally agree. I used to be a skarner main, played him the most, has all his skins pretty much. They indeed locked him in the jungle with that rework. In my opinion, his whole kit feels outdated, including his ULT, yes. I know it hurts to say, but it's just way to simplistic to just ULT someone under tower (like 80% how it's usually used) or even the preferred combo of flash+Ulting the carry. He needs some work to be interesting to play, so that you can make more interesting plays than the usual flash+ULT lol.

I dont feel like Skarner's kit is really all that outdated except in the sense that it is just older by number of years in existence. His kit still fits well with current champions imho, aside from the spires.

ZaneShadow3 votes

Well, not a Skarner player, just an outsider looking in:

  • I kinda like the IDEA of the Crystal Spires, but I think they were not implemented successfully. The main issue is that they are stuck in place and aren’t the most exciting to interact with. They need a serious overhaul, perhaps akin to a VGU.

  • Hilariously, I think Teemo is a far better implementation of taking over an area passively. He sets up his mushroom forest, gaining information, safety and power while he hides in it. It’s effect is the same as what the spires are supposed to do, but is far more satisfying and interesting.

  • Lore wise: I doubt they’ve had any idea what to do with Skarner for a while. His lore struggles to feel relevant and interesting, vaguely attached to the origin of Hextech and Shurima. I think there is potential there, but also no idea what it is.

Just my passing interest. I’m not even really a Skarner player and deffinitly not a main or avid fan, just a casual observer. I have played him enough that when I watch a pro team build full tank it pains me, wishing they’d at least get Iceborn gauntlet or something. Really hope this Scorpion gets his VGU someday soon, and that it’s everything Skarner mains want.

Reaper Soraka3 votes

They HAVE to remove his crystal area control.

The moment he goes above 5% pick rate I'll perma ban him to defend my pink ward in bushes. My own skarner will take a crystal for 5g and let them enemy take it back + reveal my pink.

Fuck that, skarner is out until rework for me.

FlameHalbrdOkido3 votes

Riot being real biased hasn't taken them long to revert other more popular champions in more popular classes like Rengar or LB, Zac. Who were just as equal misses in thier reworks, but not nearly as bad a miss as Skarners... even if they all need work and STILL need work they admitted they didn't do it right, and did a revert There's no way They leave him in the dust, eventually they will get to him, they just don't have any CURRENT plans, hes like Morde

Shahamut3 votes

{quoted}

Riot being real biased hasn't taken them long to revert other more popular champions in more popular classes like Rengar or LB, Zac. Who were just as equal misses in thier reworks, but not nearly as bad a miss as Skarners... even if they all need work and STILL need work they admitted they didn't do it right, and did a revert There's no way They leave him in the dust, eventually they will get to him, they just don't have any CURRENT plans, hes like Morde

He needs it bad... Still waiting

Total Violation2 votes

Skarner should get a Sion level of rework that will hopefully turn him into a real, modern champion instead of a glorified Pokemon. I legitimately forgot this old thing exists untill i saw this thread, probably because Rek'Sai and others do his job better.

Velasan2 votes

I like Skarner as a champion and concept. I used to play him quite a bit. When the rework happened that was the end of it for me. Spires are one of the most feel bad passives in the entire game. They slow down your roaming, are tedious to change over, and unfun to use. "Hey enemy why don't you just step over here so I can fight you properly?" It's just not fun.

Plus no one can ever decide if he's a tank or a fighter or a catcher.

Sukishoo2 votes

a simple revert

Is not that SIMPLE any more, considering a pretty big amount of time has gone by they have to actually recreate anything from his old kit that was changed as they don't keep that stuff that long.

Shahamut4 votes

{quoted}

Is not that SIMPLE any more, considering a pretty big amount of time has gone by they have to actually recreate anything from his old kit that was changed as they don't keep that stuff that long.

What needs recreated? Every graphic still exist, they just gotta change some numbers and get rid of spires.

Magical Poop2 votes

i forgot you exist

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Simply letting Skarner be an actual champion outside of 6 specific places would already be a great upgrade over his overglorified scuttler-crab-with-cc kind of state whenever he is outside his passive

Hop On Fleas2 votes

Never played Skarner, but always wanted to. Let's hope that they do something to make him more relevant.

Zemasu2 votes

They dont care and never Will sadly They hate some champs and love others, see garen and annie changes, lmao.

Garen is adopted2 votes

I like how that guy died in every single gank, that is the content i want in champion spotlights from Riot.

Shahamut2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Garen is adopted,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYwQGVPX,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-09-01T12:09:10.217+0000)

I like how that guy died in every single gank, that is the content i want in champion spotlights from Riot.

"WORTH!" XD

Ahris2 votes

Riot Repertoir straight up says the spires were not a success. In this same discussion, he also straight up said they have no plans to rework Skarner again.

Sad. Riot did use A LOT of resources for Skarner, think about how much Riot spent developing Skarner into a cooler champ? I guess it may not have been to your liking, but Skarner is used pretty often in competitive. So one good thing there i guess. Many champs are never picked in competitive, so ya.

Shahamut2 votes

{quoted}

Sad. Riot did use A LOT of resources for Skarner, think about how much Riot spent developing Skarner into a cooler champ? I guess it may not have been to your liking, but Skarner is used pretty often in competitive. So one good thing there i guess. Many champs are never picked in competitive, so ya.

wasn't to a LOT of peoples liking. A large portion of his player base was against it from the start. Then they had to nerf his spires and his base stats AND his synergy with trinity and steraks. So not only are the spires just bad, because they dont make him exceptional at clearing or map pressure, the rest of his kit is suffering for it.

Sightless664 votes

Skarner is used pretty often in competitive.

That's not an indication of interesting or fun design. It just shows that he can be powerful, and that's not good enough. It's not hard to be powerful.

He has one of the lowest playrates in the game despite being professionally viable. He is, very literally, the least popular pro-viable champion in the game. Hell, on more than half of the stats sites, he is the least popular champion. Almost no one likes this champion.

think about how much Riot spent developing Skarner into a cooler champ?

And it made him less popular. It failed. Time to write off the loss, and go back to something that worked better.

Alex Luu2 votes

and here I thought you was going to show some skimpy rule63 skarner art

Liegence2 votes

they definitely need to make him more like vi, the ult is integral to her kit but she still has abilities that compliment it, about time skarner gets the same thing

GelsominoKiller1 votes

I know that's unpopular in a Skarner revert thread, but I love the concept of the spires.

Territorialism is key to our scorpion identity in the lore, and "map control" is a niche absent in the game.

But I wish two things:

  1. spires must be meaningful objective worth taking and denying, meaning that seizing control of then must secure their property for a good amount of time. The minigame should be interesting and impacting.

  2. securing spires should give something much more interesting and unique than stats.

Oh, and his E should cast from Skarner's stinger like Victor's laser, that must happen.

All in all, at the moment Skarner is strong but mostly boring to play (especially if enemy builds QSS, then you lose any purpose). I also think you are understimating the damage bruiser Skarner deals. A triforce carries your midgame very hard.

Shahamut2 votes

{quoted}

I know that's unpopular in a Skarner revert thread, but I love the concept of the spires.

Territorialism is key to our scorpion identity in the lore, and "map control" is a niche absent in the game.

But I wish two things:

  1. spires must be meaningful objective worth taking and denying, meaning that seizing control of then must secure their property for a good amount of time. The minigame should be interesting and impacting.

  2. securing spires should give something much more interesting and unique than stats.

Oh, and his E should cast from Skarner's stinger like Victor's laser, that must happen.

All in all, at the moment Skarner is strong but mostly boring to play (especially if enemy builds QSS, then you lose any purpose). I also think you are understimating the damage bruiser Skarner deals. A triforce carries your midgame very hard.

I would certainly invite you to read through my mega thread (if you havent already) about why the spires in and of themselves are poor game design. To summarize though, the major points are:

  1. Zone control is no good for a moba- You win the game by destroying the nexus, not controlling the jungle/river.
  2. The Don't actually help him control objectives. Things that deal true damage to monsters, like nunu/chogath and even Kalista's Rend are better for objective control, because it gives you another "smite" effectively. Skarner's spires help him "power farm" and thats about it.
  3. They don't aid in ganking (major jungler theme), taking towers/nexus, defending towers/nexus.
  4. Skarner has ZERO personal agency over them. Its a teamwide passive effectively, because if your team isn't winning, there is no way to control the zones outside of lazy neglect on the part of the enemy team.

Territorialism isn't a theme to Skarner in the lore: Hunting is. The Lore has him leaving the sleeping brakern in search of their stolen life crystals. Hes not just sitting around waiting for them to die, he is being proactive and searching for them.

GelsominoKiller1 votes

{quoted}

I would certainly invite you to read through my mega thread (if you havent already) about why the spires in and of themselves are poor game design. To summarize though, the major points are:

  1. Zone control is no good for a moba- You win the game by destroying the nexus, not controlling the jungle/river.
  2. The Don't actually help him control objectives. Things that deal true damage to monsters, like nunu/chogath and even Kalista's Rend are better for objective control, because it gives you another "smite" effectively. Skarner's spires help him "power farm" and thats about it.
  3. They don't aid in ganking (major jungler theme), taking towers/nexus, defending towers/nexus.
  4. Skarner has ZERO personal agency over them. Its a teamwide passive effectively, because if your team isn't winning, there is no way to control the zones outside of lazy neglect on the part of the enemy team.

Territorialism isn't a theme to Skarner in the lore: Hunting is. The Lore has him leaving the sleeping brakern in search of their stolen life crystals. Hes not just sitting around waiting for them to die, he is being proactive and searching for them.

I disagree firmly with every point.

  1. That statement is mostly inconsequential, but even if not, having control of the enemy jungle and river helps a great deal in winning the game. Counter jungling and crab priority are the most immediate, but there is more.

  2. Not necessarily Skarner spires should help him with jungle objective control. This is something you assume out of the blue. They do help him powerfarming and counter jungling, that you will agree, concer the jungle gameplay. So I don't see any issue there.

  3. Not necessarily Skarner spires should help him in ganks, neither in taking or defending structures. Again, something you assume out of the blue.

  4. I agree that spires control depends more on who's winning on losing than anything. But that is not unsalvageable if seizing them obeys different rules (example: as the enemy team retreats from their base siege, you sneak in your jungle and secure a spire for the next 3 minutes; next fight, your zone is available).

Last but not least, Skarner is all about territorialism. The crystals were stolen from their... territory. Skarner is chasing and hunting in order to retrieve the crystals and... bring them back to their territory. When there are no spires outside of the territory, Skarner guards and protects... the territory. I understand that we might have different opinions on the gameplay mechanic of the spires, but that's a fact.

Shahamut4 votes

{quoted}

I disagree firmly with every point.

  1. That statement is mostly inconsequential, but even if not, having control of the enemy jungle and river helps a great deal in winning the game. Counter jungling and crab priority are the most immediate, but there is more.

  2. Not necessarily Skarner spires should help him with jungle objective control. This is something you assume out of the blue. They do help him powerfarming and counter jungling, that you will agree, concer the jungle gameplay. So I don't see any issue there.

  3. Not necessarily Skarner spires should help him in ganks, neither in taking or defending structures. Again, something you assume out of the blue.

  4. I agree that spires control depends more on who's winning on losing than anything. But that is not unsalvageable if seizing them obeys different rules (example: as the enemy team retreats from their base siege, you sneak in your jungle and secure a spire for the next 3 minutes; next fight, your zone is available).

Last but not least, Skarner is all about territorialism. The crystals were stolen from their... territory. Skarner is chasing and hunting in order to retrieve the crystals and... bring them back to their territory. When there are no spires outside of the territory, Skarner guards and protects... the territory. I understand that we might have different opinions on the gameplay mechanic of the spires, but that's a fact.

  1. The spires do not give Skarner any extra control over those objectives than is already assumed of any jungler. They give him some stats, stats that if he didn't have them, (or when he doesn't, as the case may be) he would be less than a champion. Even so, you don't NEED the spires to take scuttles, or to counter jungle. They add no real benefit to doing so, just a possible disadvantage if he doesn't control the spire. As such, they have no real game impact.

  2. Controlling the jungle assumes that it is actively being contested: Spires give you no actual edge in securing major objectives over any other jungler, your level and smite timing does, OR if you have an extra "smite" in the form of an ability. Even if Skarner is in control of his spires, the jungler who smites better or has the higher smite level will ultimately have the "control". Skarner's crowd control abilities could be argued as better for controlling objectives as he can move opponents away from the target objective, except that it also removes himself as well. Also, blue buff goes with you ANYWHERE on the map. Spires do not.

  3. Im assuming you mean "shouldn't" here. Constantly comparing Skarner's spires to a blue buff is just one more reason they are not good for him/the game. The spires give OFFENSIVE stats, not just mana regen, and they eat a lot of his power budget to do so. They are OFFENSIVE stats, that can't be used in a gank or to take/defend towers. Thats a problem.

  4. Everything you can list as an advantage to capturing spires is equally a disadvantage: What if 3 minutes without your spires because enemy snuck out to capture? Your example also assumes the fight is going to happen in the spire zone. What if the next fight is in your/their base?

Last but not least, your territory argument is terrible. By that argument, EVERY champion could be considered territorial. Even more so than Skarner since his "territory" doesn't even exist anymore. Garen, Swain, Darius are now more territorial, because they do things for their city-state as a whole. Skarner is at best "Familial" not territorial. He isn't seeking the crystals for the sake of the land, but his brethren. Based on Skarner's new lore, I could even argue that he doesn't even view the territory as a "homeland" because they revere the entire earth, not just that isolated part of it.

GelsominoKiller1 votes

{quoted}

  1. The spires do not give Skarner any extra control over those objectives than is already assumed of any jungler. They give him some stats, stats that if he didn't have them, (or when he doesn't, as the case may be) he would be less than a champion. Even so, you don't NEED the spires to take scuttles, or to counter jungle. They add no real benefit to doing so, just a possible disadvantage if he doesn't control the spire. As such, they have no real game impact.

  2. Controlling the jungle assumes that it is actively being contested: Spires give you no actual edge in securing major objectives over any other jungler, your level and smite timing does, OR if you have an extra "smite" in the form of an ability. Even if Skarner is in control of his spires, the jungler who smites better or has the higher smite level will ultimately have the "control". Skarner's crowd control abilities could be argued as better for controlling objectives as he can move opponents away from the target objective, except that it also removes himself as well. Also, blue buff goes with you ANYWHERE on the map. Spires do not.

  3. Im assuming you mean "shouldn't" here. Constantly comparing Skarner's spires to a blue buff is just one more reason they are not good for him/the game. The spires give OFFENSIVE stats, not just mana regen, and they eat a lot of his power budget to do so. They are OFFENSIVE stats, that can't be used in a gank or to take/defend towers. Thats a problem.

  4. Everything you can list as an advantage to capturing spires is equally a disadvantage: What if 3 minutes without your spires because enemy snuck out to capture? Your example also assumes the fight is going to happen in the spire zone. What if the next fight is in your/their base?

Last but not least, your territory argument is terrible. By that argument, EVERY champion could be considered territorial. Even more so than Skarner since his "territory" doesn't even exist anymore. Garen, Swain, Darius are now more territorial, because they do things for their city-state as a whole. Skarner is at best "Familial" not territorial. He isn't seeking the crystals for the sake of the land, but his brethren. Based on Skarner's new lore, I could even argue that he doesn't even view the territory as a "homeland" because they revere the entire earth, not just that isolated part of it.

I think you are not familiar with the expression "out of the blue", which has nothing to do with blue buff. Or maybe I am the one at wrong here, don't know. What's undeniable is that you missed completely my point.

1,2,3) You keep assuming, for no actual reason, that spires should give Skarner certain, specific things that you considering better fit for the jungling role (ganking, contesting objectives, taking down structures etc). That's completely arbitrary, for Skarner spires help other, different areas related to jungling (map pressure, clear speed, counter jungling, crab priority); there is no reason spires should tackle what you want and not what they do.

Spires give a ton on movement speed and attack speed, fighting Skarner on them 1v1 is often unwise: this has several consequences, as listed above.

  1. That's just... part of the minigame. You win, you get the boon and have an advantage. You lose the minigame, or can't use the boon properly, you're on your own.

Spireless Skarner is weaker but far from useless.

Lastly: no offense but I'm not gonna comment on the lore bit, because in all honesty you're in denial.

Shahamut2 votes

{quoted}

I think you are not familiar with the expression "out of the blue", which has nothing to do with blue buff. Or maybe I am the one at wrong here, don't know. What's undeniable is that you missed completely my point.

My oppologies, I misread your post. XD

1,2,3) You keep assuming, for no actual reason, that spires should give Skarner certain, specific things that you considering better fit for the jungling role (ganking, contesting objectives, taking down structures etc). That's completely arbitrary, for Skarner spires help other, different areas related to jungling (map pressure, clear speed, counter jungling, crab priority); there is no reason spires should tackle what you want and not what they do.

There are other champions with better map movement, better clear speed, better counter jungling. And guess what? you cant arbitrarily take it away from them by standing by a rock for a few seconds. Its just in their kits. If they made Skarner #1 in those areas, you might have an arguement, but they dont. They make him passable. Except that they can then be completely denied dropping him to laughable.

Spires give a ton on movement speed and attack speed, fighting Skarner on them 1v1 is often unwise: this has several consequences, as listed above.

Who in their right mind is just going to fight skarner on his spires? Not that their arent a plethora of champions who could, just why would you? You wouldn't.

  1. That's just... part of the minigame. You win, you get the boon and have an advantage. You lose the minigame, or can't use the boon properly, you're on your own.

And that is terrible design for a champion passive. If that were just something on the map that everyone could benefit from, thats one thing. But its just Skarner, and its not fair to him as a champion to be so restricted.

Spireless Skarner is weaker but far from useless.

Right, because you can just press predator and run at someone with full tank build and cc the poor sap who refused to buy qss. That is not fun or interesting gameplay.

Lastly: no offense but I'm not gonna comment on the lore bit, because in all honesty you're in denial.

Dont comment on the lore, you have no foot to stand on. Skarner is defending his kin's life, not the land they burried themselves in. Again, by your definition, almost ANY champion within a faction could/should have some kind of zone control theme in their kit. because DEMACIA! (wait, maybe Garen's yell counts :/)

FSRER1 votes

Old Skarner was unhealthy for the game back then. Right now a direct revert will just push him to Toplane making him a pick or ban champion but that doesn't mean that he could not get a new passive

Shahamut3 votes

{quoted}

Old Skarner was unhealthy for the game back then. Right now a direct revert will just push him to Toplane making him a pick or ban champion but that doesn't mean that he could not get a new passive

Crystal Venom Skarner was not unhealthy for the game back then, and he wouldn't be unhealthy now. Only reason that he was chosen for the juggerfail rework (which RIOT scruffy himself said was a mistake in hindsight) was because they thought they could give him a unique NICHE in gameplay. All they gave him was a terrible homage to the now dead game mode called dominion...

Crystal Venom Skarner was still primarily played in the jungle, but people like me, who like Skarner but not the jungle, could play him top lane without feeling handicapped.

GrãñðmãstêrShãçø1 votes

I as a Shaco player completely agree with you, my boy is getting almost a full revert in 9.20 so should Skarner

THE SHACO MAINS SUPPORT YOU JUNGLE BRO

Shahamut2 votes

{quoted}

I as a Shaco player completely agree with you, my boy is getting almost a full revert in 9.20 so should Skarner

THE SHACO MAINS SUPPORT YOU JUNGLE BRO

SAY WHAT?! THATS AWESOME! CONGRATS BRO! Thanks for the support <3

PuIse1 votes

As a S2 Skarner main Riotscruffy will never let Skarner be good again he hates him and i still remember playing against him when he started at riot wasn't long before he took everything from him. The burrow idea he gave to rek'sai yea i remember LINK TO THE PAST ME ARGUING [http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4272804&page=18#post45100947]

Predatorator1 votes

{quoted}

As a S2 Skarner main Riotscruffy will never let Skarner be good again he hates him and i still remember playing against him when he started at riot wasn't long before he took everything from him. The burrow idea he gave to rek'sai yea i remember LINK TO THE PAST ME ARGUING [http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4272804&page=18#post45100947]

i remember the dark days when scruffy first reworked skarner, and only gave him a slow on his E. he got no way to stick to targets, and IBG was mandatory until he finally got the crystal venom passive.

Edit, oh god and the speed bonus from W ramping up, was that from his rework or from the jugg rework?

PuIse1 votes

his rework. the worst part about E was Scruffy made you stand still to shoot felt soooo bad

Predatorator2 votes

{quoted}

his rework. the worst part about E was Scruffy made you stand still to shoot felt soooo bad

"This helps to differentiate skilled Skarners from the less skilled ones." Imagine being serious while thinking that

Shahamut1 votes

surprised to see this thread again XD

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