L m a o
'Just ward behind you!!!'
Notice that I have the highest vision score. I can't defend the ward, so they're free to clear behind me whenever they want, and they're both too mobile to get caught while clearing it
More great outplays on an immobile caster who is up 4-1
L9 GarthBrooks28 votesFor some reason lee sins base damage is disgustingly high rn. Riot decided to buff him lots cuz his win rate is trash due to his skill cap. It's real nice then for the people who have practiced lee a lot.
Rathar Dashing16 votesI thought he was buffed just because they wanted to see him at worlds a while back, maybe I'm remembering wrong.
Shiroyashayami1 votesActually, they buffed him, because they removed some mechanics from him, to make him less mobile. So they changed him from a mobile tank with insec, to a less mobile ad melee with damage. Because the only thing that has any importance is damage, am i right or am i right.
Bears Dont Care19 votesI would say in this case you were kind of screwed regardless of what you did unfortunately. Lee sin should still eat a nerf though, his damage is higher than talon's. Honestly, I need to practice him.
3TWarrior5 voteswhile not entirely true, this is some scary math for one of the higher skill champions
lee sin level 2 damage: any auto attacks in combo + 2 q's (100 total + 200 % bonus AD) + E (80 + 100% bonus AD ) = 180 + 300% bonus AD minimum - in addition to this, lee sin's second Q cast increases in damage EQUAL to the percentage of oponent's missing health, so if they're at 50%, the second cast does 75 + 150% AD
talon: 1 auto attack minimum 69 + W (120 + 100% bonus AD ) + Q (65 minimum + 110% bonus AD) + passive (85 + 200% bonus AD ) = 339 +410% bonus AD
Talon is the posterboy of burst and is still king of it, but that's some high damage from lee sin, a champion that is that versatile early game
these are their LEVEL 2 values
Syrile4 voteswhile not entirely true, this is some scary math for one of the higher skill champions
lee sin level 2 damage: any auto attacks in combo + 2 q's (100 total + 200 % bonus AD) + E (80 + 100% bonus AD ) = 180 + 300% bonus AD minimum - in addition to this, lee sin's second Q cast increases in damage EQUAL to the percentage of oponent's missing health, so if they're at 50%, the second cast does 75 + 150% AD
talon: 1 auto attack minimum 69 + W (120 + 100% bonus AD ) + Q (65 minimum + 110% bonus AD) + passive (85 + 200% bonus AD ) = 339 +410% bonus AD
Talon is the posterboy of burst and is still king of it, but that's some high damage from a champion that's that versatile early game
these are their LEVEL 2 values
Talon is insanely op overall. Way too much damage, too safe and too much clearing and too much roam potential. -_-
3TWarrior2 voteswhy is he not more popular then?
Syrile3 voteswhy is he not more popular then?
He has a fair pick-rate. However, the biggest problem is that at top level, players can counter him because their teammates do not ignore pings as often and focus on winning rather than spamming KDA (as if it matters). But even there, he has a solid win rate against a lot of champions. But his biggest problem is a lot of other very popular champions that are very strong right now (Lissandra, Ahri, Zilean, Vel'Koz, Vlad) do well in countering him. And a handful of very simple champions counter him as well. Annie, for example, is good to deal with him in lane. So long as your other teammates do not feed him, it is not as bad.
The mix of his abilities (that I listed out) is too much. That is why the assassin meta is so hated right now. Their kits are too safe, too loaded on front-end damage, and too easy to exploit a single weak player. Thus the mentality of "whichever team has the weakest player loses" has come about. Because it is true. He just happens to take very good advantage of that when played properly.
Bears Dont Care1 voteswhile not entirely true, this is some scary math for one of the higher skill champions
lee sin level 2 damage: any auto attacks in combo + 2 q's (100 total + 200 % bonus AD) + E (80 + 100% bonus AD ) = 180 + 300% bonus AD minimum - in addition to this, lee sin's second Q cast increases in damage EQUAL to the percentage of oponent's missing health, so if they're at 50%, the second cast does 75 + 150% AD
talon: 1 auto attack minimum 69 + W (120 + 100% bonus AD ) + Q (65 minimum + 110% bonus AD) + passive (85 + 200% bonus AD ) = 339 +410% bonus AD
Talon is the posterboy of burst and is still king of it, but that's some high damage from lee sin, a champion that is that versatile early game
these are their LEVEL 2 values
Lee sims total damage exceeds talon by about 300 or so burst and 100% ad due to q scaling.
Talon pays for it by having no cc. Lessons us tons of utility and higher burst. I'm surprised no one plays him more often in lane.
Caitlyn FTW14 votes[deleted]
Yenn23 votes[{quoted}](name=Kamille W,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-02T09:14:12.938+0000)
Honestly, it seems like you are overextending and out of position. Immobile champions have their weakness and strengths. You are a long range mage so you shouldn't be playing out of position. Know the map and understand that you shouldn't be playing on that side of the map if you don't see the jungler. Sure, you will lose some cc but it is not worth it to die like that.
The ward hop from my chickens makes Lee's entire combo unavoidable, no matter where I am. The exact same thing can be done while I'm hugging my turret.
Caitlyn FTW5 votes[deleted]
Yenn15 votes[{quoted}](name=Kamille W,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T10:31:28.797+0000)
I've seen a lot of streamers ward the chickens when they play against Lee Sin
The chickens were warded with all of my trinket wards. I can't defend the ward on chickens. They can clear it any time they want, and did.
[{quoted}](name=ı Sona ı,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-02T10:35:07.210+0000)
Well, "can be done" is an iffy thing to say. You were well enough infront of the turret and didn't put your knock up in an optimal spot to stop either of them. You also put yourself at risk by getting in range of her abilities. Why do that when you have such greater range than her? Immobile anything usually has things to compensate. Vel'koz has appreciate CC and long range, Veigar has a giant stun circle, etc.
Use your strengths and be mindful of your opponents strengths and positioning. Also use Vel'koz top lane you'll have more fun (no chickens there).
I main Vel'koz at Diamond. I'm not sure why you're telling me how to play him. LeBlanc outranges the maximum range of my wave clear, and the further away from her I am, the closer I am to chickens, which still doesn't address the unavoidable Lee Sin kick from ward hop.
ModWulf Helhammer5 votesLeBlanc outranges the maximum range of my wave clear
LeBlanc's Distortion range is 600.
Vel'Koz Q and W are both 1050 (and your E is 800).
LeBlanc doesn't harass with her ult, so double distortion isn't happening.
Stop making excuses for your poor plays.
And a vision score of "4" isn't anything. That just shows that no one knows how to ward, including yourself.
You bought one control ward in a 30 minute game.
Thefrostyviking5 votesI think the point was the double W in which case the leap range is 1200 which does indeed outrange him, and even if he lands his entire combo i think he still loses the trade unless he can land his ult.
To be honest i find that LB is extremely oppressive when your skillshots are slow as you cant punish her for anything she does at all unless she goof´s off.
Then again one can indeed just call that a counterpick but its a tad bit too generally effective.
ModWulf Helhammer2 votesLeBlanc doesn't harass with her ult, so double distortion isn't happening.
She use her ult for kills, which would be solved by not moving that far into the lane against an assassin and an early game jungle with no vision anywhere around him.
The one control ward he bought all game had been placed and then killed sometime in the last 2 minutes, which means he should have been extra careful.
That kill is no one's fault but his own. He misplayed, and was punished for it.
Vel'Koz is an artillery poke mage, which means he doesn't do all-ins. He pokes down enemies and then finishes them with his ult. Of course he's typically going to lose trades.
Thefrostyviking3 votesWhy in the world wouldnt she use her ult to chunk her opponent?
It only has 60 seconds cooldown at most, using it to drag someone down to 70% or even 80% is totally worth it, or securing a jungle gank.
However i do agree that as vel koz he did play that wrongly, he should never really go forward on such a mage.
Yenn2 votes[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T16:59:47.359+0000)
LeBlanc's Distortion range is 600.
Vel'Koz Q and W are both 1050 (and your E is 800).
LeBlanc doesn't harass with her ult, so double distortion isn't happening.
Stop making excuses for your poor plays.
And a vision score of "4" isn't anything. That just shows that no one knows how to ward, including yourself.
You bought one control ward in a 30 minute game. One. That is not how someone who claims to be diamond level should be playing.
Control wards are situational.
After this death, I had two item slots left. One went to boots, the other went to starting Veil. I did not have room for a control ward. It's also already very clear that no matter where I drop a control ward, I can't defend it, and the enemy can immediately clear it. I'm spending 75 gold to give the enemy a free 30 gold.
It gives me some information that the enemy was there at that one moment, but I can't do anything with that knowledge; I don't know where they went after. Are they behind me? Am I about to be dived? Are they going to bottom? Are they doing dragon? Are they waiting in my jungle? I have no fucking idea, and the only 'safe' thing I can do is return to the fountain.
After I finally ended up with room for a control ward, it was useless because the enemy team was a 5-man death ball sieging us, and we couldn't even leave the base to place it.
[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T18:29:40.674+0000)
She use her ult for kills, which would be solved by not moving that far into the lane against an assassin and an early game jungle with no vision anywhere around him.
The one control ward he bought all game had been placed and then killed sometime in the last 2 minutes, which means he should have been extra careful.
That kill is no one's fault but his own. He misplayed, and was punished for it.
Vel'Koz is an artillery poke mage, which means he doesn't do all-ins. He pokes down enemies and then finishes them with his ult. Of course he's typically going to lose trades.
Vel'koz's full Q + W + E + R combo, if they can't mobility out of his ult, will kill every caster in the game from full health. Again, you show that you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not even going to respond to 'she uses her ult for kills,' because that's so incredibly wrong that you're just being ignorant at this point.
If he loses trades to highly mobile champions whose can engage him from behind his wave clear/poke range, with unavoidable damage, while still having tools to dodge retaliatory skill shots, then there's a balance issue, which is the entire point of this thread.
You show time and time again that you have, at best, a Bronze level understanding of the game. You shouldn't be commenting on how someone at a Diamond level should be playing. I'd appreciate if you could just stop posting.
The Spiko2 votesdude he is 2 steps away frome his turret -_- he cant farm in fountaine you know i have same bloody problem when i play veigar , i hug turret but still die a lot in lane especially when jungler and ennemy mid have some potato lot of dammage early champs
macspam1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kamille W,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1EBwYUR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-02T09:14:12.938+0000)
Honestly, it seems like you are overextending and out of position.
If by "overextending" you mean not staying under turret, yeah that sounds about right. Doesn't mean Leblanc cant double blink Q ignite you for 75% of your health though
Thefrostyviking7 votesOP you have to realize this is the price you pay for having such a insane teamfighting strength yes?
One combo of yours could with only moderate difficulty decide a teamfight which might just decide a game, at least on vel koz.
So you have to play like a marksman in a bad matchup, play back like a turtle and keep those raptors or the other side warded and if you cant do that then dont ever leave tower range.
In that clip you act like you are on 
/
or 
who can easily respond to such ganks which is pretty gawd awful given that you are the midlane equivalent of 
there, when you choose a pick like that you have to acknowledge that any jungler with a decent gapcloser will be on your ass the entire game if you dont towerhug.
Hypochondria96 votesBest defense in the game is mobility right now. I don't think it was possible to outplay them there. Unless they are dumb enough to both get knocked up and you flash away.
deadlychuck1 votesYou don't outplay mobile champions, because mobile champions always have the initiative. They only ever outplay themselves, because they're always the ones which control when a fight is going to happen. Technically speaking mobile vs immobile, a mobile champion could never die if they play safe enough, but an immobile champion will sometimes find themselves in a position that it's impossible to avoid a death.
Critmaster Garen5 voteswhy does garen have a vamp scepter? death dance rush? not really a fan.
Rathar Dashing4 votesEither that or Ravenous Hydra/Mercurial, based on the pickaxe.
VG Crows5 votesDude, I feel you so hard. Playing immobiles on mid myself, I constantly get shit like this in your video happening to me. It's beyond disgusting already. The fact that Riot refuses to do anything to adress the issue with mobile-immobile disparity being SO HIGHLY BROAD is actually sickening
Dope Solo2 votesHow about that ranged/melee disparity though?
VG Crows1 votesThat one is mostly correlated to toplane, where it's abused the most, and even then there exist ways to play around it. The issue shown here on the other hand is way,way more problematic when compared to that one, since it shows how little control you actually have over your gameplay as an immobile caster/mage nowadays in the current overmobile metagame when an enemy jungler has even the slightest thought of ganking your lane.
WatchYourHeadM85 votesPlays velkoz who has insane range
Walks into distortion range against a leblanc when he or any immobile caster in this situation needs to sacrifice the 5 minions to not die or just idk farm with q from a safe range
Wastes knockup on a distortion because bronze
No longer has the only defensive ability to self peel the lee sin
Blames velkoz kit
Thinking
High mobility meta = higher punishment rate for mispositioning, maybe try adc so you can learn where to stand against these types of champs and know what abilities you need to wait to be wasted before being in engage range
CrazyMonkeyCZ4 votesI would probably try to knock up Lee, sidestep lbs chain instead of casting W. But it is easy to say when watching video and I would probably die as well.
Yenn8 votesI would probably try to knock up Lee, sidestep lbs chain instead of casting W. But it is easy to say when watching video and I would probably die as well.
It's not possible to sidestep chains at that range, I have no boots, and it still wouldn't be if I did. She's literally overlapping my hit box.
Lee wasn't visible until the instant I got kicked, at which point I'm stunned and can't do anything.
Saezio3 votes
boricCentaur14 votesGuy misses everything and has no idea about how ganks work then complains about how mobility is the reason he lost. Why would you not back off you know lee is coming this was no reason for leblanc to fight you there other then for a gank since if you actually hit your abilities you would of won the trade if lee was not there so you fighting like I would of done the same thing since im bad but I would of been like o lee is there im dumb I would not be like the reason I died is because im immobile.
King Lego4 votesAs a Vel'Koz main, you played Vel wrong. The moment you see a jungler you run and always save your E unless you know where the enemy jungler is. Idk if you warded the bot side or not (doesn't seem you did anyway), but always stay close to the warded area since you won't have vision on the other side of mid lane and if you have no wards, don't even think about pushing.
Lee Sin may have a strong gank, but Vel'Koz can deal with him just fine, a friend of mine coached me how to play against a Lee Sin, so he's means nothing to me (hell, i can escape without even flashing), however a LeBlanc is much more difficult, not to mention how unbalanced she is, i mean look at her stupid E, that ability is a middle finger to the "high risk high reward".
Syrile4 votesThis is not really a problem with Vel'Koz. I do great with him. The problem is LeBlanc is extremely unbalanced and the game itself is setup to make this type of thing a constant issue. Hyper-mobility and burst is absolutely the most idiotic concept for ultra-safe champions in a game that has had vision gutted repeatedly as well as almost all forms of defensive abilities. It is designed for flashiness, not for skill.
ı Sona ı3 votesWell, "can be done" is an iffy thing to say. You were well enough infront of the turret and didn't put your knock up in an optimal spot to stop either of them. You also put yourself at risk by getting in range of her abilities. Why do that when you have such greater range than her? Immobile anything usually has things to compensate. Vel'koz has appreciate CC and long range, Veigar has a giant stun circle, etc.
Use your strengths and be mindful of your opponents strengths and positioning. Also use Vel'koz top lane you'll have more fun (no chickens there).
Zed genius3 votesBecause any other champion would have double killed those 2 while being cc'd right?
TekkenPlayer3 votesOP probably assumed Lee was doing chickens and not setting up for a Lee-specific type of gank; thats why there was a ping to to the area and Velkoz didn't anticipate the coordination between Leblanc and Lee Sin. While I do think mobile laners are cancerous, this video just seems like you misplayed really badly unless this recording shows everyone on the map without wards? Otherwise OP's complaints would be justified as he had 1.5 seconds to react
JackMcSnipeyz3 votesHow is that different than any other champion?
Lee kicks stun locks you.
NemeBro2 votes"Dude I got ganked and then I died what the heck guys this is bullshit!"
shoe65352 votesi don't see anything wrong here...
NodirjonSattarov1 votesanytime I play vs Velkoz or Xerath as Ryze I get dumpstered on and my jungler never wants to gank.
Ionian Vulpix1 votesNot saying that assassins are balanced (And I probably shouldn't talk since I'm an iron Ahri main), but I'm pretty sure most champions would have died in that situation. You're getting attacked by a LeBlanc and simultaneously getting ganked by Lee. Even if you were someone with mobility, you're probably going to die when they engage like that.
If your argument is that LeBlanc shouldn't be able to dash in from that range or that they need to finally rework Jax and Lee Sin to get rid of ward hopping, that's a different story.
The only thing you might have been able to do is flash before Lee started the kick animation, but it looks like you tried to retaliate on LB with your spells (and missed E).
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesYou were way too far from turret with their comp.
Why the fuck were you that far out with no vision? Yeah, you didn't have a ward at the time. That's fair. But why were you that far out without a ward to warn you he was coming?
Sõna1 voteswhat to do? enemy has a jungler and your team has none.
Razelth1 votesVision score doesn't mean anything unless you ward the correct places.
Yenn1 votesI'm currently playing Vel'koz vs. Karma mid + Aatrox jungle.
Aatrox is quite literally just running me down under my turret from 100% health with Karma's shield and Ghostblade active, because I have no way to get away.
This is so fucking stupid.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesPart of it is squishy v assassins. the other part is. WHY TF IS LEE DAMAGE SO GD HIGH IN BASE AND RATIO WTFFF and the other part is I WANNA FIGHT LEBLANC BUT I CANT EVEN HIT HER IF I OUTPLAY HER CAUSE INVIS
Yenn1 voteshttps://imgur.com/9oetNhi ?????????????