Boards›Gameplay

Why is talon able to legitimately 100-0 you at level 2?

koshkyra··9 votes·7,117 views

Yes. I'm a squishy mage main who's prone to assassination. I'm unranked. But you guys all have to now I'm right on this.

Talon has hands down the biggest sudden power spike out of anyone else in the game. Specifically, level 2, where he's absolutely broken able to jump to someone, throw out a q and then auto them like twice with an ignite and WALLAH they dead.

Nobody else in the game can do this at level 2. Katarina needs to at least wait until she has her ultimate to actually 100-0 someone. (You guys all complain about her doing it at level 2, but if you're already <100% health when it starts then she is NOT 100-0ing you.) Talon can legitimately take someone from full health to death in a matter of seconds at almost the earliest point in the game possible (the only point earlier than this being the loading screen).

Again, you people know I'm right about this. Katarina can not do it. Diana can not do it. Yasuo can not do it .....ok fine, Yasuo can do it but that's for another thread.

Sincerely, an obviously-mad-at-talon person that's just gonna get downvoted to hell just for addressing a problem that nobody else will.

33 Comments

TheSnacken5 votes

I gotta be honest with you. I'm not much higher than you, but...

Look, here's all you gotta do. Quit. Playing. Stupid.

Allow me to explain: Talon's damage really isn't that high. A lot of champs can 100-0 people with two abilities. The reason this doesn't affect a huge portion of the playerbase is that they've learned how to play around it. Some solutions to your problem include:

-Avoiding the second half of Rake -taking a defensive spell (which most mages have) early, if not first level -farming safely, with abilities instead of autos. -using your potions -harassing back, so an early dive is too dangerous -taking Barrier or Heal (barrier is better against ignite, but,less valuable across the board)

Use as many of these as you can. Talon may have power, but its easy to take it away from him. He also has virtually no outplay potential that early. Incorporating counterplay into these matchups should help you delay your loss, at the very least. Learning to do all of things properly is pivotal to being a solid stand-alone League of Legends player.

Eedat1 votes

Talons damage is nuts at level 2. I dont understand "Talon's damage really isn't that high". It is.

TheSnacken1 votes

Lux, Anivia, Zyra, are all capable of that kind of level 2 damage (Those are just off the top of my head), and they all have an abusable range to boot. I'm not saying his damage isn't good, because it totally is, but its just not nearly as outrageous as you claim.

fuffychan5 votes

inb4

  • buy armor
  • your fault for getting too close to him
  • your fault for trying to 1v1 an assassin
  • you got counterpicked
  • no he cant
  • youre just bad

etc etc

GULAG 4 U5 votes

Except it has clear counterplay if you know about the strat. The range on his W and Q is low as hell, it isn't impossible to work against.

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

The greatest counter to Talon killing you at level 2, is knowing how the champ works. For example, his Q is the dash. His W, the skill he throws out, has a delay before it comes back. At level two, his attack speed is only about 0.625. So, you have quite a bit of time to react to it. Not only that, but the initial burst is easy to counter with something like Barrier, and Champs with CC, basically every mage, can stun him mid-dash, or before he gets his passive off.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

{quoted}

The greatest counter to Talon killing you at level 2, is knowing how the champ works. For example, his Q is the dash. His W, the skill he throws out, has a delay before it comes back. At level two, his attack speed is only about 0.625. So, you have quite a bit of time to react to it. Not only that, but the initial burst is easy to counter with something like Barrier, and Champs with CC, basically every mage, can stun him mid-dash, or before he gets his passive off.

Brand Cassiopeia Karthus Kassadin Orianna Ziggs Veigar

No stun!!!!

TheHappyReaperz5 votes

Karthus will kill him if he engages level 2. Even if Talon gets you, you'll get him back. Brand can E-Q, and get a 1.5s stun. Cass can W, preventing Talon from leaping in. Kassadin has a weak early-game, you would be playing way more carefully against someone like a Talon. Ziggs has an AOE slow, or his Satchel Charge, either could be used to escape Talon, Veigar has an AOE stun, which is one of the best counters to Talon's dash. Ori has a shield, which, comboed with Barrier, or alone, depending on the situation, would save her.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Inb4 someone tries to counter your logic with "but he can flash".

If Talon flashes, you flash, it's that simple.

TheSnacken3 votes

Just to add: Cassiopeia's Miasma prevents him from using his Q if he walks through it, and Brand DOES have a stun, Its the Ablaze bonus for his Q.

Additional midlane mages with outs for Talon's level 2 all-in include: -Cho'Gath Q -Anivia Q -Lux Q -Zyra E -Ryze W -Ahri E -Annie P -Vladimir W -Karma E -Lissandra W -Syndra E

Look, there's a lot of options. For everything else, there's Prescription Strength Git Gud (its a pretty low dose)

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

I've had some Talon vs Ryze experience (if you can even call it that). Ryze just presses W on you and your kit is suddenly completely invalidated lol.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Brand EQ - Stun Cassiopeia Q - long range harass and speed boost to avoid W2 Karthus Will literally trade kill for kill but shoudn't be in the position to begin with due to Q's farm range Kassadin Play safe (way back) like every other matchup, you're Kass duh Orianna Shield. It's quite oppressive to just shield and auto him level 1 and being smart and level W next lets you dodge W2 and counterassault an engage while negating damage with shield (also bring barrier or exhaust cuz you're Ori, don't run Ghost here). Ziggs E - Knockback & Dash Veigar E - AoE massive stunwall that stops his Q mid-dash.

Vovi1 votes

Electrocute dmg tho

Vovi1 votes

electrocute dmg tho and i play talon with out ignite en i can still 100 to 0 someone personally i always take tp on mid laners this gives you a chnage to come back and also ignite fails 9 out of 10 times because of lots f reasons one being healing items

RexSaur3 votes

Because riot is not very smart when it comes to balancing assassins.

They gave bad laners like talon/kat 100-0 burst with starting items at lvl 2 because they are not smart, those champs had bad laning phases for a reason.

Meccaz3 votes

So...As a talon main i'm not happy about it but, did anyone here even see on the pbe they nerfed his ranged Q 20 damage on the pbe? and it only gets the same damage as live when its max rank... so really think about the impact of that, because along with the juxtaposition of the "first blood" article, i would think the change is going through. even though the article itself says that talon gets a low benefit from first blood anyway compared to other champions

MissingKayo1 votes

It's fun how people point out he has #1 for first blood frequency, but conveniently don't mention how his Winrate after First Blood is nothing special.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

Plenty of champions have strong level 2 all-ins. Tryndamere is one of the most well-known. You have to anticipate it and respect it.

The Deckowner2 votes

But the thing is, if you don't get hit by both part of his W, he will do garbage damage due to not being able to proc his passive.

And his W is rather slow moving as well as having no slow when it goes out, so the counterplay is as simple as walk sideway when he throws w at you...

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

it's predictable and it's very delayed

So to counter this you must do the following:

  1. Don't be an idiot and stay in W's 2-hit range (it's okay to be in W out-range to CS, just be wary of the distance you need to avoid W2)
  2. Be ready to flash his flash
  3. That's it. You are now ready to not be cheesed

Sincerely,

A dude that plays Talon

MissingKayo2 votes

Try respecting his fucking power spike and learn to dodge a slow skillshot?

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

Riot doesn't understand that giving you a window is not counter play. They gave you the window to see where Kat dagger is so you can move away from it. The problem is, with enough items she can burst you down regardless or not if you move in 1 or 1.5 seconds

Most of the problematic champions are like this.. Zed, Talon, Kat, Fizz..etc

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o14VMZPA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-02T03:32:40.727+0000)

Riot doesn't understand that giving you a window is not counter play.

..

giving you a window is not counter play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Hinagiku331 votes

Considering Riot posted First Blood data right on the front page of the client that showed Talon has the highest chance of scoring First Blood in the game (at a whopping 25% of all games he is in), I'm a little surprised people would defend Talon right now.

I've beaten a few annoying Talons recently. I know he's hardly invincible. He gets early kills but dies easy enough later that they don't matter as much as you'd think.

...So why can't Riot tune down Talon's Lv. 2 cheese damage and shift some of that power to later in the game? Right now I think Talon's early kills do more damage from tiling his opponents than the actual gold he gets from said kills.

Edge of Daybreak1 votes

You kind of answered your own question. Even if he gets early kills he still dies relatively easy later so it doesn't matter much. For assassins the early game determines the entire game for most of them and if talon loses his early game power then he isn't going to be worth it over mages that scale and have CC to offer teams. Sure his level 2 is bonkers and what helps is it's consistency. He doesn't rely on bs crits like tryndamere.

forist1 votes

Power-spikes are something you just need to learn to play around. I know it seems unfair to get killed at level 2, but good talon players do not pick him for his level 2 cheese. Also, his skills are avoidable.

Kilanost1 votes

Talon is busted but it has nothing to do with his level 2 power spike.

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

To be fair... Riot just provided the data for first bloods in an article. Talon was undeniable the king, in 25% of the games he is in, he is able to secure first blood. Considering how powerful his lvl 2 all in is, that makes sense.

Kilanost1 votes

But you KNOW its coming. Just farm as safe as you can till you get your seekers arm guard. You literally outrange everything he does.

The bigger issue is that you can't gank that champion because he just hops over a billion walls to evade you.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

But you KNOW its coming. Just farm as safe as you can till you get your seekers arm guard. You literally outrange everything he does.

The bigger issue is that you can't gank that champion because he just hops over a billion walls to evade you.

CC him before he hops a wall. He has no way of getting to said wall besides walking with his low af 335 base MS.

Or Just Play Warwick.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

First off, he can't legitimately 100-0 you. After the mastery nerfs he does in fact need some prior poke before he does. its more of a 70-0

Malix Farwin1 votes

The bigger question is how are you letting him burst you at lvl 2 when you know about his lvl 2 spike. its predictable and you can counter it if smart. Play far back and if he tries to all in you just CC and kill him, if you are playing back far enough he'll take tower shots.

Vovi1 votes

talon doesnt need ignite to 100 to 0 someone always take tp ignite doesnt work anymore not as good anyway also new rune system has made him even more power full just go electrocute as keystone and the runes that give you healing if you dmg an enemy and also coup de grace which mean that you deal more dmg to low health champions

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by koshkyra

When you say "ggez", you're are legitimately being an A-hole.
Gameplay241 comments
251
votes
95% of the things wrong with the game right now are just symptoms of the insane damage.
Gameplay123 comments
237
votes
Has anyone else missed a cs because of minions randomly switching aggro
Gameplay49 comments
191
votes
Yasuo is already incredibly toxic to fight as a Mage and he does NOT need more magic resist.
Gameplay164 comments
177
votes
Yasuo Windwall should not come out of him
Gameplay94 comments
168
votes
Lee Sin has a 42% pickrate in jungle.
Gameplay211 comments
152
votes