People still complain about ADCs?

HàrrowR·7/6/2019, 4:10:34 AM·15 votes·7,356 views

Let's first get this out of the way, ADC is an umbrella term, i've rarely seen anyone complain about Jhin Jinx Ashe cause they are immobile and easy to kill with no overbearing thing like true damage or stealth in their kits. Also i don't see anyone complaining about Kalista KogMaw cause they have 1% and 1.36% pick rate so you'll never actually see them in the game.

This means that the circlejerk is always about the flavor of the month adcs or the usual suspects, Vayne Lucian Draven .

Now those 3 i can understand, Vayne and Lucian are my 2 favorite champs for a reason, they do things other carries can't but i feel like most people complaining haven't played a single game of ADC.

Seeing an ADC carrying the game and crying op is like me seeing Yasuo carrying a game 1v5 and crying op, yes his kit is overloaded, yes his windwall is straight cancer, but for every one game that he goes 1v5 there are 10 games where he's just completely shutdown or is barely scraping by, getting a single kill then dying horribly while being cc locked.

This is exactly how ADC role feels like and if you're too lazy to play 20 games of this class and understand its trouble i'll break it down for you:

  1. You rely on another person to get you through the laning phase and the game- this is one of the most frustrating things about being an adc main, if you're a toplaner and you lose 1v1 at least you know its your fault, having to rely on another person hitting their skillshots and not getting hooked and feeding the enemy botlane can be excruciating, there's really no need to explain this, you can be twice as good as the enemy adc but if your support keeps getting caught and killed then its all in vain.

  2. You're useless without peel- you think that its unfair how the enemy adc can fire away at you in a teamfight and win the game? Maybe try peeling for your carry next time instead, its equally frustrating to see all of my team mates go in and leave me alone to 1v1 a Zed, you don't have to have 4 people bodyguarding the adc but having at least one person react to an adc getting dived and helping is enough, which leads me to my next point

  3. Most supports aren't really supports anymore- yes this goes back to point 1, but having Brand Velkoz Xerath Pyke Zyra Lux as your support can be great for the overall damage boost, but it will just as likely lead to your adc having 0 peel and dying horribly every team fight, this is not fun for the adc player and it makes the role feel so completely helpless sometimes

  4. You die by someone throwing a mean look at you- seeing people say that Zed/Rengar/Kha can't kill an adc cause adc will two shot him before he gets to him makes me question their and my sanity as well, it's really not a hard concept to grasp, a fed adc with item 3031 item 3094 item 3508 for example, dies just as fast cause he has ZERO defensive items and that's without taking into account that most other classes can burst down an adc before he gets an auto off, now this can be somewhat mitigated by item 3046 item 3026 as well as some other items and runes but you'll always be at a disadvantage when facing other classes in a 1v1 unless they miss all of their skillshots or you're really ahead (fun fact: i saw a person saying that adcs can just stand there and kill yi in melee, the delusion is amazing)

  5. This ties into my 4th point, but being fed and dying to a 1/7 assassin/bruiser/mage feels really bad

  6. ADCs have little agency on their own- they have to be peeled for, they have to be tanked for, they have to rely on other people for CC and engage just to get to deal the damage, they can't splitpush or roam effectively, meaning that they only have one role, dealing damage, so before you complain about their damage just know that it's literally the only thing that they do. A fed toplaner can splitpush into victory, mid/jg can win the game by roaming, landing a good cc or picking off an enemy before a fight starts, a good jungler can literally get the entire team fed while also securing drakes and herald, a good support can make your team unkillable or be the playmaker, ADC just deals the damage and even so he is usually not the one that ends up dealing the most damage overall, mid/top, even a fed mage support can all top the damage chart easily

  7. "unavoidable burst per second" - now this just gets me tilted, unless youre a Ziggs main, stfu about "unavoidable" damage, most other classes have 1 or 2 skillshots in their kit that aren't hard to hit nevermind melees that have just as unavoidable damage and a ton of abilities to make up for their melee range, Fiora's damage for example is just as unavoidable as an adc, she has a dash every 2 seconds and a ton of healing to make up for the fact that she's not ranged but that's about it, Ahri 2 easy to hit skillshots, Malzahar -1 skillshot Fiddlesticks no skillshots- Kennen ??? Kassadin ?? Nevermind that most other mages that are skillshot reliant have a CC, which makes other abilities just as unavoidable when it lands for example Lux combo

There's like 10 more points that make adcs weak like relying on items too much and being underleveled compared to other lanes but you get the picture, every class has its own shortcomings, i used to be pissed about bruiser being strong, then i started playing top and realized that they have a ton of problems themselves so stop your bitching and play the class first and see how "OP" it is

42 Comments

hhaavviikk7/6/2019, 11:25:43 AM11 votes

ADC's will always remain a problem so long as crit is in the game, no one likes being right clicked by a fed/late game ADC and in dying in 1 or 2 seconds.

Everyone always goes on about lack of counterplay but the only counterplay to an ADC is to kill them before they can even attack you or play jax who can dodge autoattacks

Xavanic7/6/2019, 6:52:22 AM6 votes

I'm fine with most adcs, but some are very problematic and tbh, should really see nerfs Caitlyn Kaisa Xayah Ezreal Lucian are all extremely frustrating for varying issues Lucian Ezreal have far too much mobility for marksman, on top of this, they both get away with tankier builds making them much harder to deal with Xayah Caitlyn have some of the ultimate denial abilites, which already make them rather frustrating to play against, esp with how quickly caits traps arm now Kaisa is just outright fucking bullshit, she can just change up how she's building to better suit her, on top of this, she is among the hardest to win against due to her having more dmg then most other marksman to a degree, one of the big issues though, is just how powerful supports are rn, champs like Janna Lulu Lux are all great examples of what make adc's too fucking strong Let's also not forget the problems with crit rn, it's far too strong and tbh, really should be nerfed to 150% dmg rather then 200% (at least for ranged champs), as your essentially doing 600 - 800 dmg an auto with the current crit system, so your not even needing to play as an adc, since you 3 bang any assassin that gets near you, and since flash is still a thing, you just dodge their dmg, kill them, and keep going (this is where the problems with xayah and cait really shine, since they don't even need to flash) To be completely honest, marksman and melee carries should never be balanced on equal terms, as marksman will always outshine the melee carry, you always need to budget power towards the fact that said champ is ranged

Ionshatter7/6/2019, 8:02:15 PM5 votes

I mean, you named what makes people HATE ADC's so much.

Unavoidable Burst Per Second.

Not to mention the entire role from it's name to it's playerbase are extraordinarily entitled. There is a reason Tyler 1 mains Draven after all. ADC's as a whole are an terribly designed class of champions. They either do not kill you, and they die horribly in one touch, or they 1 shot you from 1100 range with no counter play. Part of the problem is that damage in the game is so absurdly high, that ADC's HAVE to insta kill you, otherwise they are completely worthless and mages are better in every way. There isn't a need for sustain damage, because nobody lasts long enough to require sustaining down. Maybe if crit is just straight removed, and damage across the board for every class is massively reduced, people will not hate ADC's anymore. They had a pretty clear role a few seasons ago, DPS objectives, help take towers, deal with tanks. Now it just boils down to who gets 1 shot first. It doesn't help when AD carries were not the only class that could play bot lane they bitched and moaned so loudly daddy Rito personally buffed and changed every single one like babies. It's shit like that that hurts how the community sees ADC players. That and the fact that right now ADC's are just behind mages in the "Best for every single lane" role. Seriously, Vayne top, Lucian and Ezreal mid, Kaisa jungle Jinx Janna or Lulu bot lane is actually a really good teamcomp. Try it if you don't believe me. The only reason ADC aren't the best in every role is because mages do everything better while being safer right now.

Almost Creative7/6/2019, 4:31:15 AM5 votes

And to add, they tried to rework ADC's mid season 8 and we saw what happened. Caitlyn Xayah Jinx Vayne Tristana were all rocking 45-48% win rates when 8.11 dropped.

Jinzo Torrance7/7/2019, 9:25:23 AM3 votes

Hashinshin says a lot of dumb shit, but he got ADCs players right. Their superpower being super fucking bitching about how they're weak when they're strongest role in the game since time immemorial.

ADCs have monopoly over botlane, where not a single other class of champions breaks 1% playrate, and you think the role is weak when all you have to do is hover M2 on someone to do 1000 dps from range.

Emperor Talquin7/6/2019, 6:28:17 PM3 votes

Ehhhh. Adcs can be annoying. But they aren't difficult to kill until lategame.

The only time i find myself complaining about adcs are if they are doing bullsh*t damage in midgame or they are just overpowered.

The adcs that usually tilt me are: Vayne - her kit is broken and the R buff eariler this season only made it much worse. Xayah - because her damage is kinda nuts and the untargetable r is annoying. Kai'sa - because literally everyone plays her and shes strong (and has stealth) Ezreal - because he is an obnoxious dickhe*d.

TheBrothersGrymm7/6/2019, 7:03:51 AM2 votes

ok lets just go back in time, they changed crit, all adcs got buffed, then changed crit back very few got nerfed, your argument is dumb, yes they are weak, yes the role sucks, yes counting on your supp to be good is rough, but its the role, if you dont like it get a friend to supp you or switch roles, adc puts out so much damage, alot of them have dashes some sort of CC or insane outplay potential, they also have defensive options, if you dont buy them you will get one shot, an assassin one shot you? wait so the fact they have 55 lethaily and are made to do that and you have 60 armor had nothing to do with that? its the way the game has to be, if adcs got tanky and put out damage why would anyone play anything other then an adc, and yes alot of adcs are OP, why can vayne do 14% of my max health every 3 autos and theres and item that lets her double proc that? why can lucain shoot me 6 times in 2 seconds and all of them crit? why does ezreal q do 700 mixed damage when he has 3 items, the role isnt broken some of the champs are, some of the items are, but they have to be weak for the game to be fair

The Chillin7/9/2019, 8:09:41 AM1 votes

Problem is riot keeps making the role too brainess/easy/overpowered. And yet EVERY season ADCs cry even though their role is broken

Câméron7/6/2019, 4:30:17 PM1 votes

now as a plat 3 adc mains soon to be plat 2 rocking 66% winrate on jinx, i Like agro supports like Lux depending on enemy team comp.

now I agree i would be diamond if I didn't have 2 account plat 1 get perm ban for cussing out a support player who locked in support in plat elo not to play lane phase and just watch. that is the most frustraining thing ever, almost like he in a duo elo boost game, and the booster like go support do nothing don't die, but the support super important in the lane phase.

No enough cc. why my team all pick non cc champs vs yi zed talon akali.. rip my jinx.

but remeber this is solo 1 it will never be perfect and ADC will always be the hardest role to climb it why you see the lowest rate in high elo top 10 be adc mains.

preternatural7/7/2019, 1:21:32 AM1 votes

jungle twitch remove it.

DeleteSuppRole7/7/2019, 8:30:26 AM1 votes

You're screaming into the void, the average boards user have a brain the size of a peanut, they don't understand how complex the game is

Heos007/7/2019, 11:20:37 AM1 votes

People should complain about crit chance to be honest, unhealthy for playing as, and playing against. And adcs feels with no agency right now and they just good when you duoQ for example. :L

hrooza dota 7/7/2019, 3:06:33 PM1 votes

im to lazy to address anything but i have to say something about this

{quoted} 3) Most supports aren't really supports anymore- yes this goes back to point 1 Lux

she plays like a support, she build like a support so why she is not a support? [unless you talk about full ap which is like an full ap morg/sona just a meme to have fun with]

3TWarrior7/8/2019, 2:33:37 AM1 votes

KogMaw : completely immobile with no defensive features at all other than his range and a slow. It has nothing to do with his pick rate. Usually the only time Kog'maw is complained about is if something allows him to be far too much of a threat, such as the Ardent Censor meta item 3504 or other instances where Kog'maw could too easily kill you without you being able to get to him

Kalista : she still possesses all of her annoying traits, thing is though, she got NERFED LIKE CRAZY for them and her ability to be useful in pro play. If she were still as powerful as when she launched, she'd probably still be a common pick or just as bad, working in top lane

Vayne is STILL POPULAR AND STILL COMPLAINT WORTHY. She scales hard and is able to pretty much hold her own in most matchups, something which is counter-intuitive to the marksman role. Being a hyper-carry because of defense is one thing...being able to fight almost entirely on your own is another and vayne is both

Lucian I honestly got tired of all the stuff about lucian...I don't specifically remember why he fell off but he is still very popular. He is now just not as powerful as the other high-popularity marksmen, which is not necessarily a good thing because he became popular by being buffed while he already had a positive win rate

now, onto the numbered lists

  1. you do not "rely" on the support but instead by your example, rely on that the support does not mess up badly. In a neutral scenario, you are completely capable of playing out of the laning phase. If the support is not wary of a hook champion, chances are they are auto-filled or not very skilled in the role. Despite having this "disadvantage" of being able to be influenced by a lane partner, marksman/bot carry remains the most popular role BECAUSE it has everyone watching its back and the map for it

  2. a large number of marksmen have AD scalings and can function similarly to AD mages with their abilities. You are not useless without peel, peel or crowd control allows you to apply your main form of pressure: consistent, unable to be dodged damage. If your team ignores you enough to not even notice the zed, again, chances are that they are not very good or oddly from the way its written, perhaps you stayed too far back and zed was able to dive after noticing?

  3. the support role is the most diverse role in the game. Its primary functions are: high base damage, crowd control/utility, the ability to deter opponents from diving/engaging (even if by only threat-value of the support, as even Talon can support). There are roughly 3 kinds of support: aggressive, defensive and traditional (or at least that's my way of categorizing them). Traditional is somewhat a hybrid and usually relies on buffs or healing/shielding in some manner. Aggressive supports focus on deterring opponents by being a massive threat(by your own point, a Blitzcrank would not be good as peel. He can use his silence to help if someone gets to the marksman/carry, but blitzcrank is a front-line champion who would rather be pulling someone from the opposing team to certain death)(Bard is another example of the same. without a second enemy or a wall, he can not "peel" for the marksman and instead might only get lucky to land his ult). As a general rule, if the opponent has already gotten to your carry, the support and front-line have already failed their jobs, OR THE MARKSMAN/CARRY IS OUT OF POSITION

  4. there are numerous defensive options available to marksmen/carries. The most recent example is: item 3046 . There is also item 3026 item 3812 item 3156 item 3111 (which boots cost virtually nothing to your build) You are also FRAIL BY DESIGN. You do the HIGHEST SOURCE OF CONSISTENT DAMAGE IN THE GAME(and consequently can kill basically anyone you can look at for long enough), now, how would you feel if you WERE TOUGH TO KILL at the same time: Vayne (who was kept non-meta for a reason...)

  5. really...it's an assassin's job to kill the carry...it's actually EVERYONE's job, but assassins ONLY PROVIDE KILLS(or at least they are supposed to as Riot has been blurring the lines). Now, in order for the mage/bruiser to get to the marksman, you either have no front-line or are way out of position, or their artillery mage is on the front-lines as an easy target

  6. A large number of marksmen/carries have crowd control of their own or defensive measures. The most notorious example is Vayne who is a hyper-carry who can also hold her own. Here are some examples of marksmen with crowd control: Kalista , Jinx , Jhin , Caitlyn , Ashe , Vayne. This does not even go into how off-meta champions can adopt the role and provide their own unique means to achieve things. There are marksmen specifically dedicated to(or very good at) split-pushing and roaming as well: Quinn , Jinx , Graves , Vayne , Jayce , and then again does not mention off-meta strats that can apply to more

  7. the "burst per second" has passed. Marksmen damage has been reduced and carefully monitored AFTER that problem and they still deal the highest consistent damage source. Not sure why anyone would still be talking about the BPS problem after there have been so many heavy changes to the marksman item line. It is still possible in the most extreme cases, such as Tristana who can buff her attack speed by 110% , but that is also very expensive during the laning phase and even afterward with item 3031 costing 3400