PLEASE Don't do this to malphite

Unnamed Feeder·Aug 12, 2017·17 votes·1,479 views

According to PBE, Malphite's Q is going to get its cooldown increased at lower ranks, its base damage gutted (especially at rank 5, lowered from 270 to 180), and his movement speed steal duration lowered. This is a HUGE nerf to him. The lowered mana costs and movement speed slow increase in lower ranks doesn't do NEARLY enough to compensate. Even with the W buff I'd say its a net nerf by a large margin. Malph was already struggling because of the Sunfire Cape gut. He has a 49.6% win rate in Plat, a 49.8% win rate in Diamond, and 49.5% overall (WAY below average). If anything he needs buffs (with no compensating nerfs) - just ship the W changes and don't change his Q. There is NO REASON to nerf Malphite further, ESPECIALLY in the what little damage he has left after Sunfire Cape. Riot, please don't do this to one of my main champions....I beg you I know its just PBE but I can't imagine what would happen if this passes (particularly to Malphite support)

Edit: All changes reverted. Malphite support can live...at least hopefully until the end of worlds. Thanks!

32 Comments

PopcornBunniAug 12, 201712 votes

Malphite doesn't fare very well when he's not doing damage, so we're taking away some of his tools to lose more often.

Velzard of KozAug 12, 20171 votes

The meme. It's rising into ascension.

Krazydigg3rAug 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Malphite doesn't fare very well when he's not doing damage, so we're taking away some of his tools to lose more often.

Rip

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20173 votes

It's for the best. He is an older kit, and actually needs more than just this. He has a point-and-click slow with decent damage that he just spams, and the mana cost isn't that bad once he gets an IBG or Frozen Heart, an AoE knock-up nuke (provided he goes AP build).

Riot said they were going to add skill expression to his kit, and this is the start, playing around his passive shield and not relying on Q spam (the same thing everyone hates panth about). His Q spam makes it a very uninteractive lane.

Malphite does not need buffs, he needs kit changes. A mostly point and click tank and a lot of power locked into his ult. I want them to go further and nerf his ult so he can get more changes to hold him over until a rework. He's similar to Cho or any other old champ. His kit is an old enough design that straight number buffs can send him into the OP tier. With more skill expression and less Q spam, he can be tuned better in terms of numbers and health.

Besides, max rank W (a better first max against ad tops anyway) with passive shield will grant 105% increase in armor, so while his passive is up, his W and E will both deal more damage, and against AD, his passive will stay up longer provided you actually builtnlike a tank.

nice tableAug 12, 20173 votes

this whole post makes it sound like you have never played malphite lmao

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx5M9LOm,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-08-12T14:41:57.310+0000)

this whole post makes it sound like you have never played malphite lmao

You're right, I'vs never played Malphite. He was just my first champ ever purchased and 3rd highest mastery https://ibb.co/iZbXzv

nice tableAug 12, 20172 votes

you are talking about AP builds and w max so clearly you don't know how he works

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx5M9LOm,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T16:44:30.221+0000)

you are talking about AP builds and w max so clearly you don't know how he works

I've never built him AP cause I can't stand it, but I've seen it. Basically an attempt to make the most of the fact that his ultimate has a 100% AP ratio.

I have maxed Q before, it bores me and costs too much mana early on. W max is what I do, especially when against AD tops, because it increases the effectiveness of two abilities, plus gives him extra defense to keep him alive and better farming. Combine that with an early frozen heart or IBG and you have a massive armor spike and much higher damage on W and E.

nice tableAug 12, 20171 votes

i mean you could build him as a adc and max w first while taking heal barrier but its still fucking awful

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx5M9LOm,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T17:07:01.916+0000)

i mean you could build him as a adc and max w first while taking heal barrier but its still fucking awful

You're right, maxing W while building as adc would be terrible. Fortunately for me, I don't build that. I build tank, which allows me to get a lot out of W max. I get super increased armor, higher damage on W active, higher damage on E, which is AoE and hit multiple targets and minions while disrupting the likes of Fiora and Tryn.

Clearly though, you don't have a real counter since you keep saying I have no idea what i'm talking about or haven't played our lovable rock giant.

nice tableAug 12, 20171 votes

its kind of like someone saying you should max e on caitlyn and build ap because it provides you with a great mix of magic damage and fairly high range poke while making you relay less on auto attacks, while the argument is true in theory its not the most efficient way to play caitlyn much like w max malphite.

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx5M9LOm,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T18:23:30.243+0000)

its kind of like someone saying you should max e on caitlyn and build ap because it provides you with a great mix of magic damage and fairly high range poke while making you relay less on auto attacks, while the argument is true in theory its not the most efficient way to play caitlyn much like w max malphite.

So what makes Q max on malphite so great? Because I find it inefficient and boring, and focusing a sigle target ability when he loves his armor and needs waveclear. W -> E works better for me because I'm powering up his defenses and making two abilities stronger while leveling only one. Better waveclear, better trading, better surviability, and much better mana management.

The only thing Q really offers in comparison is an MS steal and sigle target poke at a decent mana cost, but Malphite shouldn't be about poking. He's not Panth. He's a Vanguard, focuses on his defenses and engage power, which W helps with a lot. Better survivability in the engage and stronger AoE damage to disrupt the enemy, since outside ult he doesn't have much noticable CC/lockdown.

nice tableAug 12, 20171 votes

you max Q against ranged so you can actually trade with them and kill them with ult if they over stay, you max e against melees so you win trades and all ins due to the massive attack speed slow which also provides you with waveclear.

i guess you could max w if your opponent has no mobility to get away from you or just likes mashing heads with you when your w is up for some reason but i can't really think of any matchup that's like this.

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

If you're against ranged, you're biggest concern should be farming until 6 to get your ult, because even with Qing them, they'll just wittle you down more with their attacks anytime you go to try and farm. W gives you that extra waveclear, plus defenses against the ranged harass if it's AD (cough cough, jayce, quinn)

E max against melee is only handy against pure auto attackers, but at that point you still get more benefit from W because while you don't slow autos as much, you can soak more more up, and it also makes the damage of E better against those champs.

nice tableAug 12, 20171 votes

eh maybe you are right and everyone else is wrong but until the w max becomes the new meta i will trust the people who play this game as their job

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx5M9LOm,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T21:20:12.096+0000)

eh maybe you are right and everyone else is wrong but until the w max becomes the new meta i will trust the people who play this game as their job

So I did some calculations using the new bases for Q. Going off of level 9 stats and no items, and only two guaranteed empowered autos (just to get a decent base), E max -> W will have more damage outside of passive shield, and e -> w will deal the same as w -> e with the passive (again, no items and only 2 empowered autos). I will admit my assumption of E max was off. It also depends on how many autos you can get off in a trade, as that'll increase the overall damage of Brutal strikes.

That's a valid thought process. I took more issue with you claiming I never played Malphite. My biggest struggle with Malphite (and Maokai) was being in Bronze and not having the greatest splitting power when my other laners were struggling.

Besides, everyone does everything different. Thought people disliked having cookie cutter build paths and liked more variety in play.

Unnamed FeederAug 12, 20171 votes

Agreed on the skill expression parts, but if this is to happen, he MUST get buffs to compensate, and he's not getting them here. The changes here are just gonna make him struggle even further, since his damage was destroyed by the sunfire gut. He does need kit changes, but this needs a full vgu, not band aid changes.

Iota ThetaAug 12, 20171 votes

I agree on the VGU. The best band-aid would be to pull power off the ult somehow. It's only damage he's really losing, but..cd is reduced, mana cost is reduced, and the MS steal is higher at rank 1. So Q is more of a power shift. W is a large buff, and it buffs W and E actives when the passive is up, and leaves them the same when it's down.

I didn't think sunfire was built for damage, at least not to champs. IBG rush coupled with his W clears a wave pretty well though and chunks and slows the enemy champ if you hit them.

Critmaster GarenAug 12, 20173 votes

keep all these changes and add an armor scaling to his q.

btw. the upsides are: lower mana costs, increased movement speed steal at early ranks (25% rank 1 from 14%), reduced cooldown at earlier ranks (8 seconds from 11).

if they add like a .2 or .3 armor scaling to this, then the base damage nerfs, 1 second less ms duration and 1 second more lategame cooldown wont be an issue.

his q is already an ability thats only worth putting 1 point into and maxing last. so as a 1 point wonder this is a definite early game buff. but it hits the lategame scaling of the ability, which an added armor ratio could fix.

RizHippoKhanAug 12, 20171 votes

i usually maxed q first because of that juicy poke and all in and also running away i played tank malphite like an assassin xD

Need Gold 4 TentAug 12, 20173 votes

FUCK STOP DESTROYING MY AP CARRIES ONE BY ONE!!! Sion MasterYi Tristana NOW Malphite !!!

Eternal TormentAug 12, 20172 votes

i think thats their precise goal, to gut malphite support. riot made very clear with the malza semi-revert that they dont wanna see supports who were intended to be solo laners

KovorixAug 12, 20172 votes

Good thing i never see Brand, Zyra, Lux, Veigar and Vel koz supports.

Unnamed FeederAug 12, 20171 votes

qq...Zyra and karma can be pick/banned into support but malph cannot Like panth is untouched with his toxic kit but singed is hotfixed in one day... #doublestandards

SalsonAug 12, 20172 votes

Malph was already struggling because of the Sunfire Cape gut. He has a 49.6% win rate in Plat, a 49.8% win rate in Diamond, and 49.5% overall (WAY below average).

He is never more than 0,5% below average. He is also supposed to max E. And his ult should break terrain like Orn's E.

RizHippoKhanAug 12, 20171 votes

THE ONLY REASON I EVER PLAYED MALPH WAS BECAUSE OF THAT SWEET Q CHUNK AS A TANK AND NOW!! ......and now its gone....... ;-;

HaIlMonitorAug 12, 20171 votes

and 49.5% overall (WAY below average).

Perfect world everyone should have 50%... how is that below?

Unnamed FeederAug 12, 20171 votes

Yeah...but we will never get perfect balance and a 50% win rate for all. I meant that a lot of champions have a win rate over 50%, and compared to that, malphite's win rate is below average.

HaIlMonitorAug 13, 20171 votes

About half of them are over, the others are under. For the record the highest winrate is janna at 56.4 and the lowest is ryze at 40.7, so he is closer to janna then he is to ryze.