I'm Fine With You Guys Removing Custom Item Sets, If You Let Pros Do Recommended Items

ArnoldSchwarzens·Oct 20, 2016·105 votes·4,637 views

And if you update them regularly.

Shortly after the Assassin Rework when everything changes you might aswell put your own builds there, but once the Pros have figured out the best possible build let them make our recommended items site.

With that you not only solve the problem of people having to either search for ages when they want to get the right item in the item shop or spent ages doing custom builds, you also give newbies with no experience of the game proper builds instead of whatever you guys keep coming up with.

56 Comments

DarkRitualOct 20, 201623 votes

How about letting recommended items be a client-side file so we can customize them? Newbies and people who don't care will still have the same options, but those of us who want item sets can modify the recommended sets to become custom item sets.

Perhaps in each champ's folder, is an item set folder, where players can create an edit files on their own. That way, only the recommended item set file would get changed on update/repair.

People can then easily share their item sets as well. Pros can have ones they distribute, and friend groups can as well.

Battlecast SonaOct 20, 20163 votes

they are a client side file. You can already find item set aggregators online. If the people complaining about it read Riot's FAQ they'd realize that Riot left support in for item set aggregators, they're just losing the item creator GUI (since most users are downloading item sets, not making their own).

DarkRitualOct 20, 20162 votes

I wasn't aware they kept that after making item sets get saved client-side. I make my own item sets, so have never bothered with even looking to download them.

DunkinNoobsOct 20, 20169 votes

"Once the pros have figured out the best possible build." Rofl. It took the pros a good 6 months to figure out that armor Pen Lucian was broken. Pros aren't special; they figure out builds the exact same way everyone else does. Often worse, in fact, since there's pressure not to innovate in Challenger.

AmazoXOct 20, 20168 votes

Let the Koreans do the recommended items*

:^)

GULAG 4 UOct 20, 20163 votes

/r/koreanadvice

Battlecast SonaOct 20, 20166 votes

"Will the open beta be missing any features from the legacy client? Just a couple at the start. It'll take us a few patches to re-integrate spectate (for your friends and custom games) and the ability to join publicly hosted games using custom games. We're currently not planning to bring over the item set creator feature from the legacy client. Basically only an incredibly tiny percentage of players ever used the feature, and we've heard from many players that y'all don't care whether we bring item sets over so long as we continue to support 3rd party item set customization tools like Championify—and we will!"

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/client-update/article/4ac7a0bc-8847-40cd-8efb-aa5aa3a660f4

You can still use them, you just can't make them.

CithriaCOct 20, 20161 votes

You actually can still make them with a program from the internet.

Battlecast SonaOct 20, 20161 votes

I'm just highlighting that all riot is pulling support for is their in-game creator. I don't really utilize item sets so I'm not hip to what's available as it pertains to them, but the point is that riot is just removing their GUI for creating item sets, not item set support.

CithriaCOct 21, 20161 votes

Mb, wasn't disagreeing with you but I wanted people who read your comment to know they can still make them since the last quote sentence didn't explain it well.

Battlecast SonaOct 21, 20161 votes

oh no you're fine, more information is always good! But I was just sharing that Riot is still gonna let you make item sets just not inside the game. The in-game creator was pretty bad anyway so I think if more people realized they'd be less upset (or at least more willing to wait and see if Riot takes another crack at an item set creator).

Critmaster GarenOct 20, 20162 votes

pros dont know shit about champions theyre not playing though.

what does faker know about playing garen, when he probably didnt even touch the champion his entire life?

ArnoldSchwarzensOct 20, 20163 votes

I'm sure that there will at least be one pro or challenger player in existence who plays the shit out of Garen in his free time. Doesn't have to be limited to Faker.

RG VeleanOct 20, 20163 votes

Faker is the dude that made riven mid a thing. He's played every champ

TurquoiseYoshiOct 21, 20161 votes

And Irelia mid And Olaf mid

I have zero doubts that he has seriously used Garen mid in preparation for using him in LCK.

5000000000000000Oct 21, 20161 votes

To be fair, the Olaf mid was purely a counter pick against Irelia mid. It wasn't a normal matchup. No doubt he probably played everyone, but I'm not sure if he does a lot of experimental builds/optimizations himself, which was the main point.

ItsOrvalOct 21, 20161 votes

There are places like https://www.lol-coaching.com/coaches.php with challenger players that teach champs they only play. Im pretty sure Riot would not have a problem with finding recommended items for the champion.

In my own opinion though, they should be using this website to make their recommended lists. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/jayce/top/diamond. This is what I use to make my builds, shows what a majority of Diamond players build on the certain champ in a certain lane.

5000000000000000Oct 20, 20161 votes

Some sort of automatic system would be nice. Core 3 items would be just top 3 total items purchased by high elo players, aggressive items would be top 3 items purchased in a winning game, and defensive can be top 3 items purchased in a losing game.

Mig89Oct 20, 20161 votes

I dont agree with defensive being a losing game. There are plenty of champs who build defensive and are ahead. Why would i want to purchase items built in a losing game on purpose?

rtbf76109271Oct 20, 20162 votes

I think he meant the items with the highest win rate, given that you are already behind. Not the items that make you lose. Because that's pretty easy to do

just look at this build

Draven item 3070

It has an astounding 0% win rate

5000000000000000Oct 21, 20161 votes

Yeah, I worded that poorly. I meant the games where you're behind but make a comeback/make yourself get carried easily. Basically defensive items.

(Also, I'm pretty sure some winners just B and sell items right before the game ends just to buy shit like that, so maybe it's like 20% win rate?)

GigglingAngelOct 20, 20161 votes

Wait ... Wait wait wait, they are getting rid of custom item sets?

Why? Every single time I come back to this game, they are removing something from it. As if there was too much in the game, already ... Like, the fk? Why would they remove them?

Oh well ... I only come on to play special modes now, so not like it really matters. Just another reason to not play this game seriously anymore.

CithriaCOct 20, 20163 votes

The item sets will stay, its just that you won't be able to make them without a program until they decide if they will add them to the new client or not. They are not removing them, they just don't want to prioritize making them before the new client is released. Though they did say they might add the feature to the new client, though they will post an update on that on their next dev blog post.

President Swa1nOct 21, 20161 votes

And they're adding a bunch of stuff, too. That can always be appreciated right? Ironic how you mention this on the topic of something being removed from the new client which they're ADDING to the game.

Anyways, they're only saying that the in-client GUI for item set creation (not item sets as a whole) are not a current priority. You'll still be able to create them with third party applications in the mean time, too.

SlashStrikerOct 20, 20161 votes

I am not fine with removing Custom Item Sets or updating recommended sets as i have my personal preference.

In recommended sets Riot removed Crits from Master Yi builds and is what i am building right now. They completely steered away from its original concept which everyone wanted - Critster Yi, and is what i build now - crits on Yi

I am using my own presets AD Preset pretty much for every AD character AP Preset pretty much for every AP character Tank Preset pretty much for every Tank character

Instead spending time thinking what wanna build now i have to spent time searching for items that i wanna build

I just have my personal choices and Riot does not have enough reason to remove them.

CithriaCOct 21, 20162 votes

The sets are not removed. The ability to create them is what's not being added until they finish making the new client, because it takes time that they could be using on more important client updates. If you really want to make new sets you can download a program for it. Though they are thinking about porting the feature to the new client.

DrugothOct 20, 20161 votes

You'd think people that are the developers of their OWN GAME could make proper accurate recommended item lists...

Battlecast SonaOct 21, 20161 votes

creating the characters != being good enough at the game to make accurate, good builds

Being a rioter doesn't somehow gift you with superior game knowledge and skill, nor does it give you some sort of hidden insight into what people "should" build, because the reality is that Rioters don't know. They're trying their best just like any other player... I don't know that I've ever played a single MOBA that had a recommended items feature in which they were actually good, and League is far from the worst offender (I'm looking at you, Smite).

MonkeyMadnessOct 20, 20161 votes

Ok, this needs to stop. If you are using item sets at all (custom or recommended) you are playing the game WRONG. There are an absurd number of items in this game, and that is to encourage build flexibility. If you use any kind of rigid item set, you are locking yourself into a very rigid playstyle that will simply not fare well in any real game. Learn the items, learn to build flexibly and to meet the needs of your team. Refusal to do this will result in lower ranks, guaranteed.

ArnoldSchwarzensOct 20, 20167 votes

You know that you can have several tabs with several item options in your custom builds, do you?

Take Irelia for example.

One tab for your starting items, one tab for pots and wards, one tab for your boots choices, one tab for your must-have core items like trinity force, maybe one tab for the item you buy after that . . .

It's really not like custom builds encourage you to have unflexible builds when they are able to cover every specific option, depending on the situation.

You can also have several custom builds for one champion. For example one for Crit Yi, one for the Korean Offtank Build and one for the ArmorPen-On-Hit Build.

MonkeyMadnessOct 20, 20161 votes

Why bother to create this when you can just simply type the name of the item you need (or the first few letters) into the search bar?

ArnoldSchwarzensOct 20, 20167 votes

Custom builds are not about how fast it is to type versus how fast it is to have it on your front page, it is about how much time you save thinking about what you should build when you can decide that before the game rather than in the game.

I want to have all my options planned ahead of time rather than sitting in spawn for half a minute figuring out what the fuck I even want to buy.

dakota saturnOct 21, 20161 votes

Because 2/3rds of the time when I go to type an item I need, I try to click it in the dropdown in the search results, and then for no reason, it just vanishes. So I have to type it again, have it vanish again, all while my lane is being pressured, a teamfight is happening, etc.

I have custom item sets on my champs of every single potential item I'd ever imagine buying on them organized into sets - it saves a good 70+% of time in shop. I also may see an item I wasn't thinking of when I open the shop, which is another benefit. It's just stupid to take such an option away.

MonkeyMadnessOct 22, 20161 votes

Welp, I can tell you that in 5 years of playing this game, I have no idea what you're talking about. I have a lot of issues with some of the shit Riot pulls in this game, but the shop definitely isn't one of them.

dakota saturnOct 22, 20161 votes

Just because you personally haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You wanted to know a reason to keep the item sets - that's one.

Battlecast SonaOct 21, 20161 votes

"if you're using item sets at all you're playing the game wrong"

Many, many Challenger players would probably disagree with you. Being able to see items that you regularly buy on a champion at a glance can save a lot of time and help you remember what items you might want in certain situations. I mean, Annie Bot uses them? I'm pretty sure Dyrus does too, and a few other pros... Are they wrong?

MonkeyMadnessOct 21, 20161 votes

This is why a search function in the shop exists. There is no need to limit yourself to your preset items when you have literally every item in the game only a few keystrokes away.

Battlecast SonaOct 21, 20161 votes

Okay, and that is YOUR OPINION. I tend to follow the guy(s) who do use item sets who happen to also be in Challenger more than random-guy-with-monkey-themed-name on the boards, especially since it's pretty clear that's at least a portion of the community that cares. If you don't care, what the hell are you even doing here?

MonkeyMadnessOct 21, 20161 votes

I mean, Riot said it themselves: it's less than 1% of the community that actually bothered to use them. Sooo ya...

Also, something tells me that 0 challenger players use them. This just doesn't make sense. Challenger players don't need reminders of what to build, they know the game inside and out.

Celeste BenalOct 21, 20161 votes

92% of stats are made up on the spot. Care to link your reference for the less than 1% number?

MonkeyMadnessOct 22, 20161 votes

I will not humor this with a response. It's in all the official Riot posts regarding the removal of custom item sets.

Battlecast SonaOct 21, 20161 votes

I gave examples of Challenger players that DO use them (you can see it on their streams when they open the shop).

It seems to me like you personally have this opinion and are projecting it on people you feel are good at the game because you expect it of them. That has really no place in a discussion of this sort, to be honest - you're free to feel that item sets are useless or that they shouldn't be supported, but claiming that no Challenger players use them right after I list some that do is pretty silly. You're free to feel however you want about Item Sets (I personally don't use them), but if some people prefer them how does it affect you?

Celeste BenalOct 21, 20161 votes

Item sets are not a limitation imo. They are simply a tool to more quickly find common items that work well on a particular champ, or in a particular case. It is a lot faster to have those common items right there in front of you, rather than having to go search for it through a metric butteload of irrelevant and useless items.

GigaPubeOct 21, 20161 votes

uhh no, pros dont do maths, they play the game. they're playing cos of their mechanics, not because they've calculated to the needletip exactly when to buy void staff over rabadons on every mage or exactly when thunderlords will be more beneficial over deathfire touch because they can magically calculate when they'll land all their skillshots and pressure their opponent out of the lane. i dont let pros determine whats best on champions, i decide myself, as should anybody whos serious about improving their numbers outside of the gameplay aspect. if you cant climb rank by playing meta, be ahead of the meta

chubs1224Oct 21, 20161 votes

You can't become a pro on just mechanics. These players understand the value of different items when built at different times. Look at Faker for one, he managed to cheese several games as full ap cho mid. However he managed to do that by analyzing his opponent as a squishy midlaner that a flash w r would burst down. If he was all mechanics he would have simply gone with a full tank build instead of some ap crap that is very niche to say the least.

Leon EtoileOct 21, 20161 votes

Mid cho has always been built full ap; not tank.

Top cho goes tank

Aerith LillyOct 21, 20161 votes

Recommended items are not meant to be pro builds. Think about when you first started playing this game. You had no clue what to buy. Recommended items are for the new players. They are items to get them going and to feel some power growth in the match with the champion. When i support and or on some assassin type characters you end up with very complicated builds with multiple activatible items. This is overwhelming for a player. Item sets are actually hindering to more veteran players. The best way I can explain is via my job. I'm a programmer. Using something like game maker to make a game is GREAT for a lot of people. Especially those who cannot code. But for me, with the experience that I have, its often tedious, frustrating and inefficient.

IF you are set on using item sets riot has stated that they will be allowing support for these through 3rd party though.

StevoTheCreatorOct 21, 20161 votes

Lol.... pros figuring out optimal builds....

Its really not some magical thing...

Pros take from coaches, theorycrafters or other players very very often....

You people just blindly trust their authority on something they have little authprity on

badoogaOct 21, 20161 votes

They aren't removing the item sets that you have already made, they're just removing the feature for you to create more of them in the alpha client. And even then, they'll readd the feature to create item sets eventually (it's prioritized low compared to other features such as Replay and sandbox mode). I had a quote from riot for this, but I forgot where I put it.

Celeste BenalOct 21, 20161 votes

Wait. Wut? I have like 70 custom sets. Why would Riot remove them all?