So if Assassins aren't supposed to oneshot squishies, what else are they supposed to do?

ArnoldSchwarzens·Dec 13, 2016·137 votes·9,449 views

To be able to oneshot an enemy, an assassin first has to avoid vision, get behind the squishies frontline, weather the peel and lastly fight the squishy him/herself. If an assassin managed to get directly on top of you he deserves to burst you in a matter of seconds.

Most of the people who said that assassins where "lacking counterplay" were probably just adc mains who were solo splitpushing without vision and wondering why they are permanently dying instead of hugging their .

Of all the class reworks, this is the only rework which made the class that it was targeting one of the weakest of them all. Everything that is not or just seems so weak to me and I think it's because of that philosophy.

300 Comments

Maximum MordeDec 13, 201696 votes

They are supposed to be edgy and emo. Then everyone can make fun of them, point, laugh and have a good time. Then the assassin player goes and complains about bullying, but that just makes it worse so they take a vacation trip to Spain to cool off. The problem is the Gypsies steal their wallet and all identification so they have to go to their national embassy to get help. Along the way they get robbed and when they wake up they are sitting in an ice bath with a fresh scar and bandage where one of their kidneys has been removed. Thankfully the black market surgeon used quality anesthesia and sterile equipment so they didn't develop any infections or serious pain. So they hit the road to the embassy again and this time they make it. A generic government stooge helps them get replacement documents and plane tickets back home. There is a layover in Colombia so when they get back to the US they get flagged for a full drug search when one of the dogs false alerts. After the painful search that resulted in some funny walking, they head home and lay down in bed for a nap. Then they wake up and go back to playing League because it's still better than Gypsies and Black Market organ theft.

Velzard of KozDec 13, 20164 votes

What's the point of this post? No really, I am sitting on my wires, didn't have sleep for more than day and have to study hard for tomorrow's exam from databases from which I know nothing. Can somebody explain me what he said in fatiguetongue?

Papa AndreiDec 13, 201612 votes

League is better than having your kidney stolen

Velzard of KozDec 13, 20164 votes

Oh... Thanks... #relatable

bistrohDec 13, 201636 votes

What the fuck

Gregor GysiDec 13, 20162 votes

I usually can't stand your posts at all, but this one is simply great.

Maximum MordeDec 14, 201610 votes

What can I say, I'm a shit poster.

Akali is SO HOTDec 13, 201621 votes

Because Riot wanted to make sure that mages took their place and do everything an Assassin can do, but 20 times better.

ArnoldSchwarzensDec 13, 201631 votes

Yeah, when Syndra is a better assassin than Zed , it becomes obvious that the assassin class update kind of missed its mark.

Edit: tfw you've gotten your first "below threshold" comment . . . under your post with the most upvotes you've ever gotten lmao.

i'm just going to repeat what I said below, my wording was kind of bad. I meant it as an exaggeration, I don't think that Syndra is an actual assassin. Just that she does Zed's job of bursting squishies better than him, which is kind of alarming.

ScissorsNstuffDec 13, 201662 votes

When someone says that Syndra is a better assassin than Zed it becomes obvious this person has little real appreciation for the assassin role outside of damage dealing.

CowseedDec 13, 20167 votes

If you are talking about mobility then thar isn't much going on for them without the damage part there. If they don't have damage and only have mobility then they are just crappy bruisers in my opinion.

ScissorsNstuffDec 13, 201621 votes

its been proven repeatedly that assassins or assassinlike champs do not need to instantly burst everything to oblivion.

Akali Irelia Ahri Zed Ekko Kassadin Elise LeeSin Nocturne

in fact sometimes they can go full tank and do a better job

The real problem lies in reliability after the slightest thing goes wrong which tends to be the difference between actual assassins and mere mobile damage dealers like Rengar Diana who end up stranded and useless when this happens. These champs of course get compensated with silly damage so they can remain remotely playable.

AstôlfoDec 13, 20169 votes

If an assassin does not burst, that is not assassinating.

ScissorsNstuffDec 13, 201626 votes

you don't need to 100-0 to burst something

you can 100-20 and keep them out of the fight or just 80-0 them.

AstôlfoDec 13, 20168 votes

If they cannot 100-0 in 0.5-0.8 seconds, they are not assassins. And 100-20 means nothing when mages can just fire safely from backline anyways. And ADCs heal back to full in 2-3 autos. And 80-0 is worthless.

ScissorsNstuffDec 13, 20165 votes

formerly yes, rito doesn't seem to want that to be the case though

There are other ways to handle it afterall.

AstôlfoDec 13, 201611 votes

And Riot has a history of making blitheringly fucking stupid decisions too.

Fondling GemsDec 14, 20166 votes

They also make some really great decisions, so that point you just made turns out to be a circle.

RalanrDec 14, 20163 votes

Not that people will acknowledge the good.

Fondling GemsDec 14, 20164 votes

Ahh well what can you do? Not everyone can have our sparkling personality and always look on the bright side of life (g'dammit monty python is stuck in my head now)

You just gotta find the bits of joy in life, show them to the world, and hope others will follow. Like making geometry jokes about circles and points!

Keylight XDDec 14, 20165 votes

the problem with that is that you end up paying your life for it as a melee assassin. that 100-20 all of a sudden wasnt worth it.

RivuoDec 13, 201620 votes

{quoted}

When someone says that is a better assassin than it becomes obvious this person has little real appreciation for the assassin role outside of damage dealing.

I was in my diamond promos not too long ago,

As an adc main, im way more scared of syndra than zed. atleast zed has to work for what he does.

AstôlfoDec 13, 201616 votes

Zed also has to get in point-blank and stay there for at least around a second.

RivuoDec 13, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Zed also has to get in point-blank and stay there for at least around a second.

Yep. As an adc main im supposed to be scared of assassins, instead im not because their job is to kill me yet they dont do a good job at the moment of that.

Of course there are champs like Rengar who are just stupid as always but for the most part picking an assassin is a liability, You lose waveclear poke and the safety net as opposed to picking a normal AP mid laner ( syndra ziggs or any champ of that sort ) if you understand

AstôlfoDec 13, 20166 votes

Just about every single assassin except LeBlanc is melee, unless I forgot someone. Laning against ranged mages sure is fun.

AazzlanoDec 13, 201615 votes

You think laning against assassins as a mage is fun? WTF?

Troll for TrumpDec 13, 20161 votes

Ahri sort of, but not really. Weird hybrid.

NineTailedMysticDec 14, 20161 votes

Burst Mage.

Troll for TrumpDec 14, 20161 votes

Aren't meant to have mobility

NineTailedMysticDec 14, 20163 votes

Except she is the mobile Mage. She trades damage for her mobility.

PermabannedGarenDec 13, 201615 votes

Fizz's full combo will 100-0 an ADC who built a guardian angel with his guppy ult and without using his empowered W late game, despite the fact that he only builds four damage items. If he gets a max range ult and gets the full value from his ult there's no contest. The ADC dies.

I haven't mathed out Talon yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same was true.

ArnoldSchwarzensDec 13, 201612 votes

Usually there is someone in front of the adc to catch it. For a Fizz to really get the long-range fish off, he would have to avoid beeing seen or catch the enemy adc alone and then the adc might also be able to dodge it with his or her abilities.

And I also think that Fizz won't be able oneshot an enemy ADC with his mini fish and without his empowered W unless he's really fed.

PermabannedGarenDec 13, 201614 votes

{quoted}

Usually there is someone in front of the adc to catch it. For a Fizz to really get the long-range fish off, he would have to avoid beeing seen or catch the enemy adc alone and then the adc might also be able to dodge it with his or her abilities.

And I also think that Fizz won't be able oneshot an enemy ADC with his mini fish and without his empowered W unless he's really fed.

No, a six-slotted level 18 Fizz can 100-0 any level 18 ADC in the game even if they have a guardian angel with just the mini fish and base W. He doesn't need to be ahead. The only way the ADC survives is if they can get some shields on them (through BT or their support), and maybe if they buy a Phantom Dancer and auto attacked him last.

I've done the math.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9aZnYpy9-id-actually-love-if-you-reverted-the-fizz-rework-rito?comment=000400000000

I haven't mathed out Talon yet, but Fizz at least can easily 100-0 an ADC late game. Despite not even building full damage, lol.

ChaoticPineconeDec 13, 201618 votes

Uh, not gonna say youre wrong, but at least tell it like it is:

Most champions at level 18 and 6 damage items who relies on abilities to do damage can 100-0 any level 18 ADC with only a GA as a defensive item. I mean, even Sona can oneshot a ADC with 6 damage items.

Sraeg2013Dec 13, 20167 votes

With 6 items even AP Zed can 100-0 a squish.

Supreme Senpai69Dec 14, 20163 votes

A full build Fizz is a fully fed Fizz

Zero Skill TankDec 13, 201610 votes

Assassins have absolutely no positive effect on the meta, if assassin players are not happy with their healthy version, they can just stop playing them.

Literally every rework is about removing champions, abilities and interactions that hurt the Game as a whole. It is nobody's fault that playstyle wanted by assassin players hurts the Game.

SaiannaDec 13, 201625 votes

Assassins have absolutely no positive effect on the meta, if assassin players are not happy with their healthy version, they can just stop playing them.

Dies instantly. Damage is gated by gimmick mechanics. At the end of the day can;t do the job he was designed to. "Healthy".

Your opinion is simply idiotic.

HazyCloud7Dec 13, 201610 votes

Get cucked by exhaust right now, unfortunately.

HalfTangibleDec 13, 20168 votes

Assassins don't fight you, they just end you. I can't remember the last time I had even the chance to fight, say, Rengar or Shaco.

AstôlfoDec 13, 20167 votes

They're not supposed to. They're supposed to end you.

RalanrDec 13, 201611 votes

If you're saying that the only counterplay to an assassin was to never be alone with one then you might just be the problem.

AstôlfoDec 13, 20167 votes

No? That's the easiest way of avoiding death, because they SHOULD DOMINATE in 1v1s. There's dozens of ways to counterplay them even after they get near. But the odds should be vastly in their favor, like old assassins were.

RalanrDec 13, 201614 votes

Care to share some? Because whenever I ask you it's usually "don't get caught out".

AstôlfoDec 13, 20164 votes

Ward to see flank attempts/assassination attempts incoming. CC them. Counterbuild. Kite. That's it.

RalanrDec 13, 20166 votes

Assassins aren't as immobile as tanks or fighters. I'm not sure kiting can be considered reasonable counterplay.

RivuoDec 13, 201615 votes

{quoted}

Ward to see flank attempts/assassination attempts incoming. CC them. Counterbuild. Kite. That's it.

You cant kite nor counterbuild against assassins.

''Kite a fizz'' Goodluck.

They are made with the purpose of NOT being kiteable so you saying that is kinda strange.

AstôlfoDec 13, 20165 votes

I didn't realize armor/health/MR magically disappeared.

Thanks?

Except they're still terrible anyways.

RivuoDec 13, 201613 votes

{quoted}

I didn't realize armor/health/MR magically disappeared.

Thanks?

Except they're still terrible anyways.

An assassin is supposed to assassinate a single target. We can all agree on this.

The target in League is the ADC

You said to kite or counterbuild assassins

Assassins are made to be unkiteable. You are not kiting

That is HOW THEY ARE MADE. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Also there is no itemizing against assassins unless you mean the adc building item 3026 , in which it has a 5 minute cooldown remind you.

Listen im not disagreeing with you, im just saying that was really unfair to say because the REASON adcs have a support is so the support can save them in the first place.

dominusxDec 14, 20165 votes

WTF are you talking about. NO WHAT THE FUK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? counterbuild? are you fucking serious right now. i'd litterally slap you in the face if i had you infront of me. THE ONLY ROLE IN THIS GAME THAT IGNORES BUILDS IS ADC you got 500armor? idgaf i still melt you like a pile of garbage. IF YOUR SORRY ADC MAIN ASS thinks you should go 5 FUCKING dmg items against assasins then you S-U-C-K at the game togehter with everysingle adc main. You can't kite assasins? ofc you can't kite assasins with no defence items. you think ga is supposed to make you tanky or something? you think i'm stupid when i play Kha'zix with 3 TANK items just so my damn champion can stay relevant in this stupid game were your role bursts non tank champs in 1.5 to 3.5 seconds? lay off the drugs your role is stupid and makes the game anti fun for everyone.