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The reason why Memes and Games are making fun of us Gameplay guys all the time.

ArnoldSchwarzens·3/15/2017, 1:57:51 PM·161 votes·16,247 views

It's not because we write unnecessarily long balance essays that won't change anything 99% of the time anyway, no, it's because HOW a lot of us write them.

Instead of writing concerns in a constructive and civilized fashion, often times it's just a really angry shitpost that only conveys how angry someone is about something, most of the time without giving a potential fix for the problem at hand ( if it even exists ).

I think this is kind of sad. A lot of these angry posts are written by people who actually have a lot of game knowledge and valid concerns at their core, they are just presented in such an inappropriate manner that they are most likely not going to change anything anyway.

Imagine you are a dev, you work on the game full-time, do your best to make everything balanced and are eager to hear the community's concerns and to improve yourself. Instead of good advise on how to do that, everyone just tells you to fuck off and that everything you do is bad. Would you really listen to someone who does that? Who just cries at you and makes a scapegoat out of you instead of actually trying to help you with your job and giving you valid feedback?

The truth is, if any of the people who write these angry shitposts would somehow actually be hired to become a gameplay dev, after they did some changes they would most likely get exactly the same shitposts as a response, about how bad their changes are, how they don't know anything about the game and how they don't care about the community.

If you really want the devs to listen, be nice, do your research and be constructive. There is enough tilt and rage in-game already, no need to bring it over here aswell.

180 Comments

RiotRiot Calad3/16/2017, 2:28:47 AM62 votes

First off, I think it’s part of the job of a game developer to be aware and listen to player feedback in whatever form it takes. Just because someone is angry doesn’t mean they don’t have some good points, or that how they feel is invalid. I don’t think you have to be too concerned about hurting our feelings.

BUT, the thing about angry shitposts is that it’s lot more difficult to break down which parts are good feedback, and which parts are just emotional reactions. And that means that what may have been a valid argument gets lost in the assumptions, knee-jerk reactions, or waterfall of emotional responses. It’s a lot harder to justify taking an argument seriously when it doesn’t feel like the other party is doing so.

I don’t think that’s a super great thing for us to do - as I said, just because someone writes an angry post doesn’t negate their point, but the truth is that digging through vitriol to find the nugget of good feedback can be challenging or emotionally draining. The main argument you want to make may get lost in the noise.

So, my advice, if you feel strongly about about champion balance, an item, a piece of music, or whatever, and you want to have a discussion about it, think about the core point you want to make, take a breath, break it down, and write it out in an organized, objective way. Try playing devil’s advocate to your own argument, think about the other perspective, test your assumptions. For developers, the most useful discussions come when someone talks through their thought process.

I work on videos here, and we have some guidelines we use when we’re looking for feedback on our projects. It’s not a perfect comparison, but I’ll share it here, if you’re interested.

  1. Identify the “Why”
  • So you don’t like the editing of this scene - great, but why do you feel that way?
  1. Don’t be prescriptive.
  • Identify the causes of problems, rather than demanding specific remedies.
  • Pitching ideas/solutions is awesome, as well as providing examples as to why you feel the way you do.
  1. Be specific.
  • Detail is very helpful.
  • “This Sucks” is not very helpful.

This doesn’t mean that every post that does these things will get a Riot response, but I can promise you that if I’m reading through the boards and see a thoughtful discussion, I will send it to a Rioter working on that thing. In my experience, those kinds of posts are much more likely to make their way around the office and get seen.

Melledoneus3/15/2017, 3:52:41 PM57 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/1lgg03.jpg

Glory ln Death3/15/2017, 5:13:20 PM38 votes

https://media2.giphy.com/media/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/200w.gif

Good to know someone finally figured it out! It's also because about half of Gameplay posts are just circlejerk after someone got a few upvotes for the same topic.

Gameplay is the leading perpetrator of dead horse abuse.

The Yetii Rider3/15/2017, 5:08:07 PM27 votes

I think the reason M&G makes fun of us so much is because we treat the Gameplay boards like it's only for crying for nerfs and buffs.

People don't actually talk about their games, or about strategies or builds or anything like that. No, it's solely used as a podium to call for changes to the game, instead of talking about the existing game. Which is...pretty dumb, honestly.

RocketRelm3/15/2017, 4:13:52 PM14 votes

Honestly, I prefer to see the whole thing as this kind of tsundere relationship, where memes&games really likes gameplay, but has to put up an air about mocking us because the only way it knows how to communicate is through clownery.

http://imgur.com/8DdhPNG.jpg

Teridax683/15/2017, 7:10:07 PM13 votes

This is all true, and I agree that Gameplay will never be as productive as it could be with its current atmosphere. However, I don't think this is something that the userbase here will simply understand and adapt to, because Gameplay's toxicity comes from its very structure. One of the reasons shitposts are so popular, for example, is because they often get upvoted a ton, whereas more constructive posts, especially posts that make suggestions, get downvoted into obscurity before they get a real chance, simply because one or a few people saw the thread and instinctively disagreed with one thing that was said out of many. On top of this, the Gameplay boards are so poorly curated and moderated that there is very little overall quality control, allowing the cheap, easy and useless posts to overtake the more thoughtful ones. Riot's general lack of participation may be a result of Gameplay's toxic atmosphere, but it's also a vicious cycle, since the lack of communication on here simply generates more frustration overall.

The thing is, while the OP is excellent and useful, this is not the first time a thread like this has been made. If you simply tell Gameplay they're being toxic and that they need to change, they're not going to care, not just because they likely know already, but because their toxicity comes from improper incentives and moderation: with its current structure, Gameplay is pushing people to make low-effort posts, and away from constructive discussion, and if that doesn't change, the boards will not change. This is obviously not what Riot intended, but it's also something their forum team has made no real effort to rectify in all these years. It's silly, because it's also likely what caused Riot's communication channels to move to everywhere but Gameplay: we now have a Dev Corner where only Rioters can post, the Nexus feed where the devs mostly talk at the playerbase, rather than with them, and then we have Reddit and ask.fm, which allow for two-way communication, but are unaffiliated with League's official site and tend to lead to only sporadic dev interaction. Riot should have a vested interest in bringing Gameplay up to far better standards, as it would allow them to centralize a lot of their communications, and achieve a much more useful and functional level of interaction with their players, while collecting much higher-quality feedback.

HopeStartsWithU3/15/2017, 3:28:30 PM10 votes

I think this is kind of sad. A lot of these angry posts are written by people who actually have a lot of game knowledge and valid concerns at their core, they are just presented in such an inappropriate manner that they are most likely not going to change anything anyway.

Sorry but i disagree on that point. Most threads on Gameplay- Boards make 0 sense at all. They are just rants because they can't bear the frustating they experience ingame. Almost every "Nerf XY" post are from people who just saw a post with alot of upvotes on the front page and thought "i'm gonna jump on that circlejerk too". In short: most of the gameplay people have no clue about the game and just want to rant on the boards.

(I know i will get alot of hate for that xD)

resumed3/15/2017, 7:04:16 PM10 votes

maybe people make fun of you because your username is freehorseporn and not because your theory on why ap riven is op

rtbf2256182413/16/2017, 1:45:19 PM6 votes

I think the real joke here is the OP's name and how it totally fits the topic.

Prison AnaI3/16/2017, 5:33:50 PM5 votes

Yes i agree with Mr. Freehorseporn

Draclen3/15/2017, 3:59:19 PM5 votes

Definitely agree. The "Create a Discussion" button is what you press to make a post but very few of the posts are actual "discussions", at least the ones that get popular. Even if the posts are ones made to get feedback from other players and not Rioters on resent topics in the game, none of them ever are like, "What Do You Guys Feel About X?" or "My Opinon on Y." and if they are they're worded in very angery/passive aggressive ways making it difficult to create civil debate. It becomes less people wanting to talk about the game's balance and more them yelling about why the game should be balanced their way, joining in on a popular bandwagon, or sometimes just venting their tilt.

Xyntheyxz3/16/2017, 1:14:10 PM4 votes

Im pretty sure the real reason is because Memes are ALWAYS superior.

ZILLAGULA3/15/2017, 2:06:14 PM4 votes

Well tbh I'm trying to reach out the game's players for them to relate not so much to the game devs. I think by winning over a portion of the community there's also going to be a larger chance of me making a change.

Vectros3/15/2017, 9:39:13 PM3 votes

To be fair, I've seen plenty of posts over the years trying to help Riot in a nice, constructive manner...which get ignored 99% of the time. I think a lot of people who used to be nice about it are tired of the bull****.

Incarceration3/15/2017, 8:54:49 PM3 votes

Usually, Memes and Games are full of people who are Bronze and Silver players that act like we are way too overboard with shit while they are chill n all.

rtbf2256182413/15/2017, 7:28:19 PM3 votes

To be fair, it's not like M&G is that intelligent either.