Are high mobility resourceless (or energy) champions intended to be anti-fun to play against?

deadlychuck·Jan 12, 2015·9 votes·1,486 views

It might just be me, but playing against a champion who can constantly dart around, with very low CDs and no resource to limit how much they can do this just isn't fun. You are completely dependent on them to make a mistake (which is very rare because of their high mobility) which puts them in a position where you can make a favorable trade.

are the big ones that come to mind.

While pretty much every champion has some type of counter play, it seems like these champions are designed in ways which the extent of the "counter play" you can do against them is in champion select.

19 Comments

Hilltop SunsetJan 12, 20157 votes

You forgot one of the worst offenders!

Katarina

deadlychuckJan 12, 20152 votes

The only reason i didn't put her on the list was because she requires a kill for her mobility reset. Which isn't something that is brought up to much in the laning phase, which is what i'm more referring to.

Though I do think removing the damage reduction on her E would be good, because really she doesn't need it to be powerful, but it does help her when she makes a mistake.

Also Kat is very good at cleaning up a fight, not fighting them. Along with MasterYi . Just because they make it easy to get a penta kill doesn't mean they are any better than other champions, it just means their window to shine is when people are low and easy to kill.

Oh quick thought that comes to mind to help with kat's lack of resource. What if her bouncing blade would have a longer CD (like gnar Q), unless she got in range to catch it after it finished bouncing.

Hilltop SunsetJan 12, 20151 votes

That would actually be a really interesting change; like, she has to be close enough to the last target hit by the blade for it to automatically bounce back to her when finished to reduce the cooldown. That's a clever idea.

ULTRAF0RCEJan 12, 20151 votes

that would not work do to the nature of the ability, if you play kat you will notice that the knife happens to get further away from you if you are not using it to poke the enemy. PS the e damage reduction is mostly for dealing with the champions listed who will be able to outdamage katarina in a one v one always pre zhonya or dfg, well except gnar of course since he is sustained damage, but generally speaking it is just to alow katarina to not lose any trade automaticaly early game if she engages with her e, aka a mid might need to use their autos and one ability to win when kat uses her w and e

deadlychuckJan 13, 20151 votes

Though literally her only resource is her health pool in lane. Other than that she has no reason to recall for lack of sustaining. I don't think it would be a bad change, mainly because most every kat doesn't use E to initiate an exchange, they use it to escape from one with minimal losses.

A good player learns to use that lack of resource to out sustain the enemy then trade when they are unable to retaliate effectively.

Though the idea comes from the fact that playing safe would sacrifice the total poke you can deal, you are forced to target the back line with the initial cast. That way it will return to you. That said it could also be used to her advantage by using Q, E to nearby target, retrieve Q and recast for extra trade potential.

junglerboy16Jan 12, 20151 votes

Actually, If you play Yi well, he is really good at cleaning up and fighting the fight itself. That is part of why he is gated by high mana costs.

TheSaltyScourgeJan 12, 20152 votes

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deadlychuckJan 12, 20153 votes

looks like my match history

Slushi SimcambiJan 12, 20151 votes

Hmm these champions all have something in common...

Can't put my finger on it...

deadlychuckJan 12, 20151 votes

well yeah, they are all suppose to.

Little to no resource management and high mobility

Slushi SimcambiJan 12, 20151 votes

(almost all of these champs are considered OP by the community or are top picks)

deadlychuckJan 12, 20151 votes

bingo

foristJan 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slushi Simcambi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ns41GuqA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-12T22:03:46.595+0000)

Hmm these champions all have something in common...

Can't put my finger on it...

Lemme guess... they are all ad champs? :D

SookoJan 12, 20151 votes

The only energy champion I have fun against is Shen, honestly, and that is if I am tanky as well, feels so romantic to have us auto'ing each other in the top lane, dealing little to no damage to each other, just as the seconds pass by, without any jungler or team to annoy us. I feel guilty whenever I kite a tank, and Shen is one of my favorite when it comes to personality.

I would have fun against Kennen if I fought him mid, but that guy goes top and tries to kite me, but that's my champion's problem, not his kit.

Lee... Well... Yeah, I have him, he isn't half as hard as his mains will have you believe. Asides from your ultimate and energy restoration passive, there is hardly anything to his kit to make it extraordinary or difficult to play. But man I feel like punching my screen when that 12 year old LCS wannabe Lee Sin escapes and then speaks in all-chat: not even close bby. Plus having him every game doesn't help his cause at all.

Akali is plain boring to go against. Always the same strategy, same build, same ganks, same shroud, same BS sustain, feast or famine. I hate her both on my team and on the enemy team, and her players are no better.

Then we have Zed, that one champion that once 1-shot me as a 1600 HP left Singed with at least 140+ MR and armor from my ult, just because of LW and BotRK. Super annoying laugh, super cheese escapes, super cheeky players that always bring out that old excuse: Buy Zhonya's or QSS or GA, forget about your mana issues while Zed can go full penetration on his first item! Then his players are very similar to Lee's. They are Korean wannabes that play what the LCS overlords tell them to, usually overconfident, whose shift key is already too greasy due to their furious all-chat raging whenever they get killed in a 1v5, thanks to the chips they eat while they last hit with his superb waveclear. And some of them even say he is the healthiest assassin... Run away, he has a larger blink to escape, not to mention how many abilities he can dodge with one basic ability.

Now onto the others...

Gnar is a total pain. A ranged tank that can kite, tf, push and deal %HP magic (How easy to itemize against him, right?) damage astonishingly fast. And he never shuts up. I don't have any problem with his players so far, but that kit is, to say the least, overloaded. And the hop, what once looked cute and awesome, is now the most annoying skill ever.

Yasuo is only half of what I hate. I hate more those premades that pick Malph, Ali, Cho and then feel super pro when their knockups help Yasuo get his low CD ultimate on a few of the enemies. /all rekt xDXDXDXD /all teamwork OP XDXDXDXD. But yeah, ganking someone that knows how to play this guy is a nightmare. He will dash everywhere, knock someone up, and he might even kill the mid laner 2v1. And the mains even say he is super weak, either due to his winrate, or due to his previous nerfs that changed his base stats instead of his kit. Were he that weak, they wouldn't pick him, or else he would be unplayable like Volibear in a ranged meta like this one. Luckily, the bad Yasuos still outplay themselves and are sometimes quite easy to bring down.

Then Rek'Sai... Meh, haven't faced many yet, except that AP one that killed our mid over and over again, but the player remained silent, so I have little to say about her or her players.

Then we have Riven. Oh you... 44/0/23, kills a 4/3/4 Urgot "Haha, outplayed

Hasztalan2Jan 13, 20151 votes

^ I lol'd on this post. So much truth.

NarasimhaJan 13, 20151 votes

Its not a linear scale between mobility and resource. You have to look at the whole picture.

Riven and Mini-Gnar have the lowest health regens in the game. If they make a mistake, they pay for it harder than most other champions. Especially Mini-Gnar, who is vulnerable to both poke and all-ins. Yasuo's 'mobility' is tied to an opponent being there. If he's 1v1ing you without any creeps, then he's not going to be very mobile. Plus, his damage is lackluster until he gets some items. Rek'sai's damage is already being severely hit next patch. Lee is being looked at after... Zed, who is the biggest issue and is actually being thrown up for some shifts.

deadlychuckJan 13, 20151 votes

hp5 problems Riven ? no problem item 3074

IceKingChernobogJan 13, 20151 votes

let me ask you this, have you ever been in a match where the enemy Katarina literally instagibs your whole team? yes that includes the tanks

deadlychuckJan 13, 20151 votes

Sure, but that's generally because she picked a single low target who failed to back away from the fight giving her free resets or because she's already at 15 kills.