Boards›Gameplay

@Riot Building AP on Kai'Sa Feels Pointless

iPooUnicorns··1 votes·718 views

Her AD Ratios vastly outclass her AP ratios aside from her passive, which feels like it doesn't make much of a difference until about ~200 AP.

  • Q Ratios: Base 45 / 61.25 / 77.5 / 93.75 / 110 (+ 40% bonus AD) (+ 20% AP): Upgraded 112.5 / 152.125 / 193.75 / 234.375 / 275 (+ 100% bonus AD) (+ 50% AP)
  • W Ratios: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 150% AD) (+ 65% AP)
  • R Ratios: 75 / 100 / 125 (+ 100 / 150 / 200% AD) (+ 75% AP)
  • Passive Ratios: Basic attacks 7 - 12 (based on level) (+ 1 - 9 (based on level) per Plasma stack) (+ 10% - 25% (based on Plasma stacks) AP): 5th Stack Proc: 15% - 20% (based on level) (+ 2.5% per 100 AP) of target's missing health magic damage

Hybrid / AP Attack Speed items are rather expensive compared to AD items, and her ratios really don't reward her with much additional damage for taking the risk of building these items. Additionally her W upgrade is rather lackluster compared to her Q and E. The Q upgrade literally more than doubles the ability's damage output, which essentially makes rushing 100 AD mandatory. Furthermore, her E upgrade gives stealth which is incredibly useful for dueling and catching people out. By contrast, her W upgrade applies an additional stack and refunds half of the cooldown, which can largely be made up for with more attack speed.

If Riot wants to help her in this regard. I suggest a couple of changes:

  • Reduce the Q upgrade requirement from 100->75. AD itemization gives a lot less in raw numbers compared to AP, with this change it would allow her to get the Q upgrade with less AD items and help alleviate how terrible AP builds feel. While this would be a slight buff to AD Kai'Sa, she's not exactly strong currently, with less than 45% winrates on every role displayed on op.gg. Allowing her to get a slightly earlier powerspike would likely alleviate this.
  • Add an additional effect to her W upgrade: Hitting an enemy with W causes Icathian Rain (Q) to prioritize that target. This makes her W upgrade much more meaningful and gives a clear advantage of building some AP rather than straight AD.
  • Increase her AP Ratios: - Upgraded Q: 50 -> 60% AP - W: 65 -> 75% AP and reduce AD scaling from 150 -> 125% Total AD (seriously why does this scale so damn hard with AD??) - R: 75 -> 80% AP - 5th Passive Stack Proc: 2.5 - > 3% AP.

All in all, these changes should bring building AP up to par with AD on Kai'Sa by rewarding her for opting towards riskier builds and more solidifies the difference between pure AD and Hybrid/AP. I'd love to hear some feedback from Rioters who are (hopefully) working on some buffs for her.

16 Comments

5050BS2 votes

This is why I dislike how Riot "balance" works.

I was looking forward to someone who can build AD or AP and could go mid but nope

yeulx1 votes

shes not suppose to build alot of ap.. only a little bit.. and that rewards her enough as is shes an hybrid carry..

iPooUnicorns1 votes

You're missing the point. Building any AP on her just feels like a waste of time. Her W upgrade does next to nothing for her, and her AP scaling is straight up inferior compared to AD. The only build on her that seems to be effective at all is item 1412 + item 3006 + item 3071 + item 3046 + item 3153

Also I'm fairly certain that Riot said she was intended to be able to build AD, Hybrid or AP.

yeulx1 votes

not ap.. just AD and hybrid.. and thats not the only effective build.. or else she would just be in the jungle all the time

iPooUnicorns1 votes

Still doesn't change the fact that there's no reason to even build hybrid.

yeulx1 votes

not true.. both her abilities scail off of AP and AD.. so riot has to keep a balance between ad and ap.. and that balance is pretty much balanced where its at.. the issue isnt her kit/scailing.. the issue is the lack of hybrid items to build for hybrid champions that have both ap and ad on them

PhantomPrankster1 votes

the problem is AP items are expensive as shit

iPooUnicorns1 votes

Not untrue, but Riot isn't gonna change AP items just to help one underperforming champion.

Venompaw1 votes

I build hybrid, I find it works best.

iPooUnicorns2 votes

It's not bad if you're snowballing, but I still find full AD to be much more reliable.

Kaìju1 votes

People have tested it and Full AP does the most damage. The issue is that her items are about 6k gold more expensive than normal AD items so she needs to wait even longer than ADCs to get to her big damage.

iPooUnicorns2 votes

Tested on the target dummies that have 10k health? If so, of course it's going to have the highest damage solely because of how ridiculous %HP damage is against them.

Kaìju1 votes

No in live games. People like Vandril and others have compared and high elo players like QT have talked about how AP does more damage but costs more.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

I have yet to see QT talk about her AP damage. Infact QT thinks she is trash and he took shipturs advise on how to play her. Which is Full AD crit getting essence rever.

Venompaw1 votes

Kai'sa's damage comes from isolation, not items.

iPooUnicorns2 votes

Yes and no. For her isolation damage to actually be relevant, she needs a bare minimum of 100 bonus AD.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by iPooUnicorns

Dominion is currently balanced better than Summoner's Rift
Gameplay132 comments
145
votes
After 500+ Games Played of Nexus Blitz With a ~60% Winrate, Here is My Feedback
[ARCHIVED] Gameplay+82 comments
114
votes
Remember when ADCs had to build lifesteal to access sustain?
Gameplay104 comments
86
votes
Yes, Stormrazor is a good item on Jhin; no it isn't what's making him OP.
Gameplay68 comments
69
votes
Can Rammus' Q Being a Channel Get Reverted?
Gameplay39 comments
63
votes
Ingenious Hunter is Incredibly Underrated
Gameplay94 comments
62
votes