Can Rammus' Q Being a Channel Get Reverted?

iPooUnicorns··63 votes·15,832 views

Seriously, this changed singlehandedly dumpstered Rammus.

His Q is his only means to get close to enemy champions, and it being cancelled by any form of hard CC makes it completely unreliable. Prior to the change there was already plenty of counter play to it. You could use minions to block his pathing, CC still delayed the amount of time Rammus had to close the gap and tanks could body block it for their team.

Additionally, this makes it incredibly wonky to use item 3800 item 2065 and Predator, as activating these items interrupts his Q.

Finally, Rammus' inability to kill Scuttlecrab (he can't taunt it, if he uses W to increase his passive damage, Scuttle out runs him) has sent him further into the dumpster.

In a meta where ADCs are so dominant, and Rammus is unable to do his job as a hard counter to them, it should be abundantly clear that he needs some love.

39 Comments

Morgy Morgy19 votes

q shouldnt be a channel. it makes no fucking sense! he's not channeling shit, he's fucking accelerating, actively moving, not powering up an ability or some shit. and his w slowing him is fucking retarded as well. i seriously miss the old rammus, where his E reduced armor, his w didnt slow, his q wasnt useless. he feels awful to play now.

KZ Engel8 votes

got rid of the only fun part of the champ. q/ghost/tp from base, or q/snowball in aram

koshkyra7 votes

No thanks rammus deserves to be unviable with such a braindead kit

Ranmaru4 votes

{quoted}

No thanks rammus deserves to be unviable with such a braindead kit

The shittiest of shit post

LordGeovanni1 votes

Why is it that every champion that is limited by their sub 350 range and lack of instant burst mobility is brain dead and the ones with more range and thus allowing them to build squishier because range is innately defense aren't considered brain dead.

ToBeSomebody6 votes

Going to respectfully disagree. First of all you can use Righteous Glory without interrupting his Q. Second of all Scuttle dies pretty damn easily. Taunt forces it to stand still and removes the defense buff, also increases your attack speed. Sure, there are other junglers who are better at killing it. But as Rammus you get to be incredibly mobile, incredibly tanky, loaded with CC and honestly you push out stupid amounts of damage.

I've been playing a metric ton of Rammus lately because he's the most fun jungler in the game right now I think. Feel free to check out my recent history to see how I do it.

This change still sounds good, of course. It's awkward as a channel, since abilities like Stand Aside can really mess with you.

Flemman3 votes

I would say 90% of the jungler are better than him at doing scuttle. (and even tho, the 10% are the one who can't break the defense buff but they usually have high amounth of damage so he could actually be the worst of them all to do it)

The scuttle problem with rammus is that, unlike all the other jungler, he can't use all the tool he have to clear camp on this one. For one objective, he basically loss half his kit.

It wasn't really a problem when scuttle was mainly a team focus objective, but now that it's a big factor in how fast you can level up/scale as a jungler and that his heath was also increased, it's maybe time to look at how those 2 interact. Making scuttle aa rammus for 1 damage during taunt duration for exemple could do the trick, it would not add power for facing champion in rammus kit, but at the same time it will reduce the big clearing time gap he suffer atm

Hong Kong Annie5 votes

I don't know if that change is the sole reason he was dumpsted or not but I can say for certain that even if Rammus was good he wouldn't be fun to play because of it.

TKM Axe4 votes

go predator first then use you q so it dosent interupt?

iPooUnicorns7 votes

Yes the Predator boots aren't as much of an issue, but you kind of lose the element of surprise when ganking; when you activate Predator before showing, the enemy knows they're about to be ganked, instead of being able to show up with your Q just started and then activating predator to super speed to them.

Also item 3800 and item 2065 are still pretty wonky, with them having short active durations.

Festive Bear2 votes

[{quoted}](name=TKM Axe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y6gHKTwN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-25T19:42:31.243+0000)

go predator first then use you q so it dosent interupt?

you waste a nice chunk of time channeling

VelvetCrotch4 votes

sry but i am against it. till rammus gets a vgu and a more complex kit. then this stuff can be looked at.

French Courtesan4 votes

If rammus is garbage and unplayable, the game is more fun and enjoyable. Move along.

oortoomeebreesuu4 votes

Rammus - The Armordillo

Passive - Bonus movement speed grants him armor, his armor grants him bonus movement speed (no double dipping), but uses the highest recent percentage in the last few seconds (Bonus movement speed causes him initially to be very tanky, late game itemization causes him to move quicker overall, and interesting double-effects happen with Aftershock and Righteous Glory where choosing armor makes him faster, or moving faster makes him tankier)

Q - Rammus enters his shell in a short channel (Think of how people run to start skateboarding - only he is the board), then gains instant movement speed, rather than increasing. Ignoring collision, the next enemy hit is knocked up and dealt (small) damage. Subsequent enemies passed through are slowed instead of knocked up. Recast to cancel, dealing (Armor ratio, distance traveled ratio) damage in an area around you. Much like nidalee spear, this is more about where you started from, not zig zagging for phat stax

W - Passively, rammus deals massive extra damage to targets who have recently attacked him. Activating will sacrifice this passive for it's cooldown, granting CC immunity and Blocking basic attacks at the cost of movement speed. Rammus hides in his shell, not feeling Okay. (2 second duration)

E - Iconic, kept the same

R - Possibly the same as well, structure damage is unique and grants him consistent threat, not burst, in team fights. Could add a "worked ground" taliyah-like mechanic that scales positively with how much you till the same soil, but for the sake of visual clarity not necessary

Unlike Sion, Rammus charge keeps him fast, and low to the ground. It doesn't make sense that he would be interrupted on the first target he comes to. People should have both a reason to block rammus, or get out of the way, but currently in a meta where EVERY CHAMPION has absurd mobility options, and even ADCS and mages are literally insec'ing people and initiating fights, there is no excuse for the character designed to go fast should ever be slowed down. Further cemented in his kit by his ability to avoid CC as it occurs, as it was taken from Ornn but is a mechanic that deserves to be placed on such a character. To be locked down for centuries while 4 ranged can kill you isn't fun, but neither is "Well if i attack this character, i will just die, so thats neat" Notable is the removal of his reflect damage, and also missing is the passive that grants him damage based on his defenses.

Early game, Rammus relies on looking for openings with his kit. His clear speed will be nominal, but he lacks the tools and sustain if a fight is brought to him. His damage effectiveness should be based on his gameplay, not his stats, however as his stats increase, his gameplay becomes more intense and more requiring of coordination - he's not going to zap you like Kha'zix, but he may as well be invisible if you never can react to him coming. Requires some follow up, and requires the enemy he wants to kill to bother paying any attention to him. He can guarantee this once, with taunt, however will struggle to find effectiveness if brought into ranged, extended trades, or against bruisers who can start a fight close, blow for blow without fear, since in order to defend himself he must sacrifice some of his damage.

The one big change is that Q would fizzle with crowd control - counter play for such a strong, no string attached CC has to be offered. If you want to initiate with it, you can get knocked out of it. Or, you can use your normal increased speed to bait crowd control by shelling it out, leaving enemies in retreat - another scenario rammus excels in.

Itemization becomes more interesting - the usual suspects help him with attack damage, but items like Wit's End and Abyssal Mask are a straight synergy to help him stay relevant against AP compositions. While Rammus has some damage options to choose from, tanky doesn't mean invincible. Teams who can effectively stall him out will be rewarded, while a Rammus who gets his team the lead could find himself taking down turrets like bowling pins.

Dead flag blues3 votes

Yes yes yes

So sad not being able to item 1402 item 3152 one shot

Emo Twink1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y6gHKTwN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-25T19:32:31.104+0000)

Yes yes yes

So sad not being able to item 1402 item 3152 one shot

thats the main reason why im sad about it

HungryAngry2SPP1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y6gHKTwN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-25T19:32:31.104+0000)

Yes yes yes

So sad not being able to item 1402 item 3152 one shot

And this is what YOU thing >:) (Jokes aside, don't listen to...i think it was magicarpusedfly, his builds suck)

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Rammus might as well stay in a gutter <.<

His kit is even more basic than old Malzahar.

Start Q+any available speedbuff, run in, taunt, use other abilties, stand on enemy.

Done.

Not a single skillshot or ability that demands anything aside from you standing ontop of your target.....until he gains any kind of way to express skill in his kit he deserves almost no power at all.

FutureCreator1 votes

Except you know, minions exist. Also a tank can bodyblock Rammus Q, unlike any of Malzahar's abilities.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Except you know, minions exist. Also a tank can bodyblock Rammus Q, unlike any of Malzahar's abilities.

Have you actually played against him?

At some rather early point he gets so damn quick that trying to run behind the minions to make your escape wont work, he´ll simply run around and wait for you at whatever point you were running towards.

And that very same rush engage can be absolutely fatally damaging when he just decides to blitz some enemies trying to rotate, leaving them no chance to disengage.

Malz Q can be dodged, his W dies in 1 hit from item 3751 and his ulti is a channel.

He is also extremely mana hungry early game basically unable to fight anything until at least 1 item is done, and even then he struggles to both push and fight so someone who pokes and pushes at the same time becomes a nightmare to him.

While he deserved it, being nerfed repeatedly after a failed rework does that to a champ.

My conclusion? Both of them are shit, although for different reasons.

But shit still smells awful regardless of who or what left it.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Rammus' core gameplay is fair. That's why he hasn't got any major changes and only number tweaks here and there.

He's not hopping over walls or bypassing wards or anything, you know he's coming if you warded and have time to prepare (unlike some junglers Shaco ).

Late game there are 5 people tossing out CC haphazardly forcing Rammus out of his Q if any of them hit. His engage is entirely reliant on flash or flanking, both of which are completely fair to play against, never leaving you feeling cheated by Rammus.

On the flip side, his ganks are very strong when he can pull them off, typically requiring some CC on the ally side or over-extension by the enemy.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

{quoted}

Rammus' core gameplay is fair. That's why he hasn't got any major changes and only number tweaks here and there.

If Riot considered him to be fair his Q wouldnt have been made into a channel in the first place.

They clearly realize that as more movespeed became accessible he and others like hecarim because more and more oppressive, thus nerfs ensured.

Wards are worth a fart when he covers the distance from midlane side bush edge to behind enemy lane before they can even make it under tower....and thats despite having stood fairly close anyhow.

Him, skarner and heca all pull the XXX Miles per hour gank that most champs simply cant avoid once they even get a bit of speed, it really aint cool.

VelvetCrotch1 votes

I so much support your attitude in general. Great job mate 👍

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

yes, i barely play him anymore cuz he feels clunky as shit. i fuck up predator half the time

Friendly Ram2 votes

Ram ram needs to go fast.

Recuro2 votes

Finally, Rammus&#039; inability to kill Scuttlecrab (he can&#039;t taunt it

He can taunt scuttle, unless they changed it recently without me noticing (haven't played on this patch yet maybe it's a scuttle change). It won't attack him but it will sit still and you get the attack speed buff from it.

As for the q I think they should get rid of the channel but still make it stopped by hard cc. I'm okay with being interrupted by a stun, but silences really shouldn't stop it. Plus it's just really weird that silences interrupt it yet snares don't, sounds backwards to me.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

I find it hilarious that Kassadin stops Rammus mid-Q if he simply casts Q on him.

HungryAngry2SPP2 votes

{quoted}

I find it hilarious that Kassadin stops Rammus mid-Q if he simply casts Q on him.

(if im not wrong) Q effect=stops any channeling spell. So why do you find it hilarious?...

0 Hogapu2 votes

His q is too unreliable, while his E/R are way too effective. once you get taunted, you know you'll die. i wouldnt mind his q coming back to how it was, but dont forget how strong the rest of his kit is.

Kurjao2 votes

I pray they don't do the same thing to Hecarim's E

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Okay. And while it feels shitty for Rammus players, it's so that the rest of us can actually do something.

Body-block it with minions? Okay. Sounds great. Except he just runs out of the jungle.

Also, Shurelia's doesn't affect channels anymore.

TKM Axe1 votes

do E + W + 3 AA + STOP W + Q + AA until it dies (the scuttle)

ÈvilMorty1 votes

[{quoted}](name=TKM Axe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y6gHKTwN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-25T19:43:56.662+0000)

do E + W + 3 AA + STOP W + Q + AA until it dies (the scuttle)

meanwhile graves and xin can easily kill you and take it

TKM Axe1 votes

{quoted}

meanwhile graves and xin can easily kill you and take it

smite it when its low on hp and Q out of there

warpenguin5551 votes

I miss fastballing people on Aram. Take snowball and dash to some one while using Q. It was awesome for engaging.

invisiblecat11 votes

I think if he is cc'd, his Q should just be slowed down a little (starts to decelerate), but making it halt completely is really dumb

LibroMastro1 votes

I'd revert his W honestly..

LordGeovanni1 votes

But how else Are people on Big damage ranged champions are gonna function when they cant knock him out of his q and have him self slow his self during W when they cant kite and spam abilties with big damage and some other effect that tanks (melee non assassins really) get super long cooldowns and have the activation super delayed for having the same effect despite less range when they dont want to use kiting with their superior constant movement speed and they also have excapes or that cc for peel. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV26RdZVXGQ&t=655s) then their failure to play plummets the win rate and they use that to say the champion is bad.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Rammus CAN taunt Skuttle though. It won't attack him but it does count as CC.

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