Maybe im incorrect, but it just feels like the support dominates the adc right now? Like, a brand support is way scarier than the jinx adc. Even Janna is dominant if she maxes W instead of her shield.
I'm not suggesting anything by this, i just wanted to make an observation.
Thimes28 votesThat was the case since dawn of times. That's why people say support carries ADC first then ADC carries support.
Rαy1 votesThat was the case since dawn of times. That's why people say support carries ADC first then ADC carries support.
I don't think so, to be honest. Support gold is so high since the new support items and everyone is so squishy that supports can 1v1 a lot of champions early to mid game.
A Thresh recently murdered my Jhin. He was one level behind, didn't use ignite and both were full hp. Kind of dumb.
Gregorovic083 votes[{quoted}](name=Ray 701,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ni3JAbeE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-26T20:05:46.861+0000)
I don't think so, to be honest. Support gold is so high since the new support items and everyone is so squishy that supports can 1v1 a lot of champions early to mid game.
A Thresh recently murdered my Jhin. He was one level behind, didn't use ignite and both were full hp. Kind of dumb.
Support incomes are high? I've always felt that they were very low no matter what. That's why they have to have such cheap items that give few base stats but have powerful actives.
HaIlMonitor2 votesLook through your match history, they are generally slightly less then the rest of the team. In most of my history they are sitting around 500 to 1k less then everyone else, which when their items on average are WAY less means they are stronger. Plus in generally supports have high base stats and are less item reliant then any carry.
Just look at the two popular champs like
Her most popular item set is rushing these which cost 10,200 (her second most popular build does deathcap instead of zhonyas so it would be a few hundred more)
which cost 7100 gold, and those 3 items are her 5 most bough sets just in various order.
I wish I could find an actual average of gold in a game, but supports get plenty of gold and some of the classes like enchanters have such good base stats I dont get why they need to cost 3k less, but only be early a couple thousand less at most on an solo laner.
Gregorovic082 votesLook through your match history, they are generally slightly less then the rest of the team. In most of my history they are sitting around 500 to 1k less then everyone else, which when their items on average are WAY less means they are stronger. Plus in generally supports have high base stats and are less item reliant then any carry.
Just look at the two popular champs like
I wish I could find an actual average of gold in a game, but supports get plenty of gold and some of the classes like enchanters have such good base stats I dont get why they need to cost 3k less, but only be early a couple thousand less at most on an solo laner.
You do make good points but I beg to differ about supports not being as item reliant as than any carry. I find it hard to truly carry as a support almost no matter what I do with my base kit, but with items like redemption, locket, mikaels, etc. it makes it easier, not to mention % heal and shield power. I think supports are just as item dependent as any other carry but if they make less gold and have cheaper items that give fewer base stats wouldn't that pretty much balance out? They are also much more team dependent than most other roles.
On a side note, do supports actually have high base stats? I feel that unless you rush your support item, which gives health no matter the one you build, you are still insanely squishy.
HaIlMonitor1 votesI think base stats is the wrong term, maybe base Values? Like their base skills seem to have a lot of value in them. Even in those two Nami hurts really bad even though she doesnt build much AP at all.
Her bubble for example has higher base damage at rank 5 then Ahri Q (if both hit), but her AP scaling is worst by 20%. Ahri still needs at least 100 bonus ap to do more damage on her main spell. Like obviously Ahri build more AP and after a specific amount of time she will out damage Nami, but some "supports" like brand generally hit like trucks even on a support budget.
Dorans Pants1 votesSupport incomes are high? I've always felt that they were very low no matter what. That's why they have to have such cheap items that give few base stats but have powerful actives.
If you compare it to when supports only bought wards and nothing else, support income is quite high nowadays. If you compare it to every other role though it´s still really low.
The bar is just set really low for supports
Thimes1 votesIt has nothing to do with gold, support champions all have very high base stats and CC. Look at Brand and Zyra damage with no items at all. If Blitz lands Q you die, if Caitlyn lands Q you lose 10% HP.
GinoSoldier1 votesIt has nothing to do with gold, support champions all have very high base stats and CC. Look at Brand and Zyra damage with no items at all. If Blitz lands Q you die, if Caitlyn lands Q you lose 10% HP.
Brand and Zyra are both mages with enough CC and zoning to pretend playing supports but in no case are they comparable to enchanters.
Sona's Q does lvl 1 40/target, +10 per boosted AA. Brand's W does 75 in a fairly large AoE. That's Sona's one attack spell VS one of three of Brand's, not counting passives. The final damage output isn't comparable. Sona only catches up if she builds Sheen straight out and then she risks getting obliterated because she's literally the game's squishiest champion.
And that's just one example. They certainly catch up in other areas like sustain and mobility, but talking purely about damage, Enchanters don't actually deal all that much by themselves early on.
Thimes1 votesOh they do, go try out how much damage Nami does at level 3, she can take 60% of your HP easily while you sitting in her CC. Janna? Hits you with her 8s CD W for around 20% hp each time + empowered AA and Aery and Scorch. Lulu? Insane burst, used to be player mid and top and destroy lanes. She can solo half of mages at lower levels, not to speak about ADC. Pre 6 Brand is not nearly as big threat as Lulu in terms of all in. Sona? You forgot her passive that is also empowered by her Q by 40% and Aery and Scroch. Typically Sona hits ADC for around 30% of his HP with Q+AA when passive is up.
GinoSoldier1 votesOh they do, go try out how much damage Nami does at level 3, she can take 60% of your HP easily while you sitting in her CC. Janna? Hits you with her 8s CD W for around 20% hp each time + empowered AA and Aery and Scorch. Lulu? Insane burst, used to be player mid and top and destroy lanes. She can solo half of mages at lower levels, not to speak about ADC. Pre 6 Brand is not nearly as big threat as Lulu in terms of all in. Sona? You forgot her passive that is also empowered by her Q by 40% and Aery and Scroch. Typically Sona hits ADC for around 30% of his HP with Q+AA when passive is up.
I didn't forget anything. Brand also has a passive that deals damage, and can also use comet/aery/scorch as easily as anyone else. Where supports can take anywhere from 40 to 60% of a squishy's hp in a dedicated attack with their CC landed properly, Brand and Zyra can outright solo kill someone for the same effort.
La Bello15 votesits always been like that OP.
Supports win lane Marksman wins game
Rexxiee8 votesadcs that arent jhin and draven (if you main him) just blow right now.
You're 200% reliant on your team to do anything at all stages of the game.
BEK Makadur14 votesDear ADCs, welcome to the reality of League .
YumaS2Astral1 votesadcs that arent jhin and draven (if you main him) just blow right now.
You're 200% reliant on your team to do anything at all stages of the game.
Also Miss Fortune.
crispy668 votesADC was never a dominate role
Leto GT7 votesClearly you were not playing this game when late game was meta and all the adc were late game powerhouse. I believe this season put late game carries in the closet in favor of early-meta adc which may have given you the impression that adc were equally weighting in the lane. Support historically speaking have actually always been the ones winning your lane.
HaIlMonitor3 votesIf you are refering last season that was its own problems.
"Late game" Was a 
With 
and 
with lol.
Leto GT2 votesNah I meant when midgame started at 20 min and lategame at 35-40 min. Now midgame starts at 10min and lategame at 25-30min. I remember when I came back from few months ago, I heard a caster talking about midgame at the 10min mark, I was like wtf? Lol. Game has changed so much, its crazy. All those items that gives damage really changed the shape of league.
HaIlMonitor2 votesYeah laning phase doesn't really happen anymore with Scuttles and the massive amount of ganks I feel like I am almost never in lane, so it does feel like midgame at 10 sadly.
Daddy Ants1 votesYeah laning phase doesn't really happen anymore with Scuttles and the massive amount of ganks I feel like I am almost never in lane, so it does feel like midgame at 10 sadly.
https://gyazo.com/69f856e3afae8c91e4e1628b1dc00cf9
Changes planned for preseason to extend Laning phase.
HaIlMonitor1 votesThose sound cool! Hopefully they can pull it off.
Sire Hippington3 votesthat's how it always worked, supports tend to have high base values which usually menas high early power, and they don't have to CS, so they can focus more on harras, createing pressure or finding an engage. It's part why adc always feel like they have low agency even when their class is broken, cause wether they pop up and get going or not usually is more in the hands off their support and even jungle+roaming mids rather than in their own hands.
Beatrice falls2 votesADCs need to focus on farming to reach their powerspike, aka playing safer. The support is more like to have its back and harass for him. I like it this way tbf
Ache2 votesI've actually made a comment the other day that I was no nearly as scared of the enemy Draven as I was of his Rakan. [sg-miss-fortune]
Honestly, it's kind of funny actually. I main mid/ADC, and I've been hooked on Jinx again lately. And I will usually aim for the support before I aim for the ADC lately because the support will typically have a much higher impact than the ADC would unless the ADC is ridiculously fed.
Rock MD2 votesYou're seasons late.
Literal seasons.
Supports have always determined the lane outside of low elo.
King Braum1 votesMy adc has actually made note of this in the past, where he was often surprised to my poke damage compared to his.
Velasan1 votesMy observation is that people use these terms way too much particularly in video games where it doesn't really apply.
The ADC player was never alpha over the support. Supports don't get some kind of weird enjoyment over being bossed around, they just happen to prefer the role that lets them enable their team.
Z3Sleeper1 votesThat's how it's always been
vgamedude1 votesADC is dominant in lane, hell the support has always kind of been a role where you sacrificed late game ability for utility and power in lane, what do you expect? ADCs already outscale everything in the game and top damage charts, and they ARE useful in lane especially ones like Jhin, MF, Ashe etc.
Daddy Ants2 votesADC is dominant in lane, hell the support has always kind of been a role where you sacrificed late game ability for utility and power in lane, what do you expect? ADCs already outscale everything in the game and top damage charts, and they ARE useful in lane especially ones like Jhin, MF, Ashe etc.
??????????????????
Unless the ADC is 
then that's completely false.
in particular are hardcore lane dominant champions that are intended to "fall off" as the game goes on.
Right now, they don't fall off.
They have a strong early, mid and late game.
vgamedude1 votes??????????????????
Unless the ADC is
Right now, they don't fall off.
They have a strong early, mid and late game.
Yes because if you actually make adcs balanced or have different game strengths adc players QQ. ADCs have to be strong throughout to maintain their carry monopoly.
Daddy Ants1 votesMaybe im incorrect, but it just feels like the support dominates the adc right now? Like, a brand support is way scarier than the jinx adc. Even Janna is dominant if she maxes W instead of her shield.
I'm not suggesting anything by this, i just wanted to make an observation.
Supports have always been the lane deciders.
ImpossibleGT1 votesThis has always been the case, and it used to be far more pronounced than it is now. Back in the ye ol' days before "seasons" the support was the most important player on the team. They single-handedly controlled not only the tempo of bottom lane, but also the team's vision control. Any of you remember when Oracle's Elixir was a permanent buff that lasted until death? It was the team's responsibility to ensure your support could ward sweep safely or else they ended up hundreds of gold down because of lost Elixirs. So when your Sona went in for a Power Chord with that little pink eyeball over her head, your ADC was right beside her protecting that vision control.
Not to mention the old support items ensured you never actually fought without your support. The original Aegis of the Legion was, in terms of cost-to-effect, one of the most powerful items ever available in League. It was disgusting. You made damn sure your support was able to rush it and if you were the ADC, you never left the radius of the aura. Ever.
On top of all that, supports were also responsible for maintaining timers (back in the dark ages, there was no dragon/baron/buff timers) and making play call outs (again, in the days when you actually had to type out "mia bot"). The players that think you're supposed to jam your weakest player onto support because "it doesn't take any skill" or some stupid shit like that are simply bad players. It's been true since the beginning of League, and it's still true now.
