Why do we need shield breaking abilities?

Cloud273·Jul 19, 2019·1 votes·1,675 views

We already have true damage and conqueror. Do we really need to make tanks more useless than they already are?

17 Comments

AeroWaffleJul 19, 20192 votes

Neither true damage nor conqueror are any more effective against shields as they are against un-shielded hp bars. At best they can be considered things that are good against Armor and MR.

Straight HP gain is what true damage is worst against (as far as resistance stats go), which is what a shield is. Temporary HP.

BoltonatorJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Neither true damage nor conqueror are any more effective against shields as they are against un-shielded hp bars. At best they can be considered things that are good against Armor and MR.

Straight HP gain is what true damage is worst against (as far as resistance stats go), which is what a shield is. Temporary HP.

I guess buffing true damage didn’t work so now they introduce mechanics that just delete shields as if they never existed...

AeroWaffleJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I guess buffing true damage didn’t work so now they introduce mechanics that just delete shields as if they never existed...

I see shields being an issue (or a boon depending on which side of the sword you're on) with squishy champions that are gaining the benefits of sudden (but temporary) tanky-ness.

It being temporary is suppose to be the disadvantage to shields but that disadvantage never really comes into play when you throw it on a champion that will murder 1-2 champions during the duration of the shield.

BoltonatorJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I see shields being an issue (or a boon depending on which side of the sword you're on) with squishy champions that are gaining the benefits of sudden (but temporary) tanky-ness.

It being temporary is suppose to be the disadvantage to shields but that disadvantage never really comes into play when you throw it on a champion that will murder 1-2 champions during the duration of the shield.

Back when Ardent Censer was a mandatory first purchase I could see the reasoning behind shields being too powerful. The current state of League has assassins and junglers juggling turret aggro and making shields about as significant as a bandaid on a broken leg.

The only support I feel is currently overturned in terms of shields would be Rakan, simply because of how insanely high he scales with AP on practically his entire kit.

AeroWaffleJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Back when Ardent Censer was a mandatory first purchase I could see the reasoning behind shields being too powerful. The current state of League has assassins and junglers juggling turret aggro and making shields about as significant as a bandaid on a broken leg.

The only support I feel is currently overturned in terms of shields would be Rakan, simply because of how insanely high he scales with AP on practically his entire kit.

Shields are still very powerful, mostly because of how easily it's stacked on a VIP player.

With the exception of shields, people can build against any other form of defense.

Armor? Lethality and Armor reduction. MR? Magic Pen. HP? % Hp damage (both max and current)

Shield? % Hp damage wont really get through it fast enough especially since it scales with the HP, not the HP +shield. Only choice right now is to wait it out or try to burn through it.

Burning through it means that the shield is 100% effective and might as well be a pre-heal for that amount. Waiting it out might as well make the shield a Taric ult for that duration. While the opponent might pick the best of the two options, either option makes shields an extremely powerful defensive tool that can be thrown on a squishy character at a moment's notice.

Giving some select abilities the capability to shut down shields would mean that shield comps would have a better counter. I wish they would throw it on different champions instead of Renekton but that's a different argument.

BoltonatorJul 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Shields are still very powerful, mostly because of how easily it's stacked on a VIP player.

With the exception of shields, people can build against any other form of defense.

Armor? Lethality and Armor reduction. MR? Magic Pen. HP? % Hp damage (both max and current)

Shield? % Hp damage wont really get through it fast enough especially since it scales with the HP, not the HP +shield. Only choice right now is to wait it out or try to burn through it.

Burning through it means that the shield is 100% effective and might as well be a pre-heal for that amount. Waiting it out might as well make the shield a Taric ult for that duration. While the opponent might pick the best of the two options, either opion makes shields an extremely powerful defensive tool that can be thrown on a squishy character at a moment's notice.

Giving some select abilities the capability to shut down shields would mean that shield comps would have a better counter. I wish they would throw it on different champions other than Renekton but that's a different argument.

I understand your logic but let’s not forget that shields are also used to protect your ally if they get caught out of position or, in the case of Blitzcrank, grabbed by him. What happens now is that your adc gets grabbed and instantly dies due to his R making your valiant effort to save them an absolutely wasted effort.

AeroWaffleJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I understand your logic but let’s not forget that shields are also used to protect your ally if they get caught out of position or, in the case of Blitzcrank, grabbed by him.

That's my point. It's too good at that and there's nothing an enemy can do to mitigate that safety buffer other than to plan as if the person they're targeting has +shield HP.

What happens now is that your adc gets grabbed and instantly dies due to his R making your valiant effort to save them an absolutely wasted effort.

There is plenty of opportunity to avoid a Blitz grab in the first place. Why should people get a get-out-of-jail-free card if they failed all the steps to avoid getting grabbed in the first place? A shield is not a difficult thing to land. A blitz hook is. It collides with any enemy element (minions included), has travel time, and is telegraphed before it actually launches.

Without a shield break, what's a Blitz to do about a person who can get shielded for all the damage he may achieve by successfully landing a good hook? If a squishy can just walk away from a good hook thanks to getting shielded several times what good is the hook?

The thigh guyJul 19, 20192 votes

Because they didn’t realize shield breaking is broken out it’s ass the last 2 times they tried it and it was broken out it’s ass.

III BAKURYU III Jul 19, 20192 votes

Do you have "shields" in Mortal Kombat?
~~League of~~ Mortal Kombat and don't you FORGET IT!

preternaturalJul 19, 20191 votes

obviously rito want to buff the healing/shielding supports just before worlds because it makes better television. so there will have to be ways to deal with them, being introduced as we speak.

Death by GlamourJul 19, 20191 votes

I think you are mixing enchanters up with thresh/pkye and midlane/jungle assassins

preternaturalJul 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ngaXtuev,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T20:36:29.649+0000)

I think you are mixing enchanters up with thresh/pkye and midlane/jungle assassins

just wait and see.

MakarakarnJul 19, 20191 votes

Because despite what people say, shields do NOT have counterplay before this patch. And no, damage doesn't count. That's like saying that waiting is the counter to cc, because if you wait long enough it'll go away. There was no counterplay to one guy getting a GIANT shield and being impossible to damage.

BoltonatorJul 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Because despite what people say, shields do NOT have counterplay before this patch. And no, damage doesn't count. That's like saying that waiting is the counter to cc, because if you wait long enough it'll go away. There was no counterplay to one guy getting a GIANT shield and being impossible to damage.

Shen R and Tahm Kench aside name one true support that has a shield so oppressive that you cant melt it with a single auto attack from your adc.

True Supports are getting shafted because of champs like Tahm, Shen and Riven who have truly oppressive shields that don’t require them to burn a primary resource. Enchanter supports are all but dead in the water yet they are continuously being hit with nerfs.

MakarakarnJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Shen R and Tahm Kench aside name one true support that has a shield so oppressive that you cant melt it with a single auto attack from your adc.

True Supports are getting shafted because of champs like Tahm, Shen and Riven who have truly oppressive shields that don’t require them to burn a primary resource. Enchanter supports are all but dead in the water yet they are continuously being hit with nerfs.

Have you ever fought a guardian lux? I know she's not a "true support" as you call them, but it's pretty aids nonetheless. Karma shields are prettyyyy thick. And besides, it's not all about supports, as shielding isn't a mechanic unique to supports. Even if there are instances of something alone in a void not being cancer, that doesn't mean it should have no actual counterplay.

BoltonatorJul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever fought a guardian lux? I know she's not a "true support" as you call them, but it's pretty aids nonetheless. Karma shields are prettyyyy thick. And besides, it's not all about supports, as shielding isn't a mechanic unique to supports. Even if there are instances of something alone in a void not being cancer, that doesn't mean it should have no actual counterplay.

At least you understand that Lux and Karma are not true Supports.

Yes I have played against Lux Supports of every type and that is why I usually ban her in champ select. It’s not that I can’t dodge her abilities but because her shielding capabilities are far stronger than supports like Lulu, who had her shield nerfed into oblivion awhile back. Lulu actually has a lower WR than Ashe Support...that should tell you something...

MakarakarnJul 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

At least you understand that Lux and Karma are not true Supports.

Yes I have played against Lux Supports of every type and that is why I usually ban her in champ select. It’s not that I can’t dodge her abilities but because her shielding capabilities are far stronger than supports like Lulu, who had her shield nerfed into oblivion awhile back. Lulu actually has a lower WR than Ashe Support...that should tell you something...

Here's one problem you have though, is that a champion doesn't have to be a "support" to be played support. Why do you think people complain about characters like Vayne going top lane? Because they weren't meant to go there. However, nothing is stopping them from doing so. You aren't locked in any way as to what champions you play in what role, the only thing inhibiting you is yourself and that champion's ability to succeed in that role. Just because a champion is labled "support" doesn't mean they should be the end all be all unbeatable option for that role, it just means they were designed for that role. If another champion can fill it better, that's just how the meta is.