When you say Riot doesn't know what they're doing and refuse to listen...

Eedat·Nov 5, 2016·80 votes·4,588 views

Just remember that they actually are listening.

Both Kalista and Azir are representative of a period where in hindsight I think we tunnel visioned too much on uniqueness at the expense of some aspects of game health (overloaded kits) and skill floors. That's resulted in some champs who have really cool stuff on their kits, but have been challenges to balance for regular play versus top tier play. My take is that there are solid concepts there, but that the execution on them needs some work (reducing unnecessary strengths primarily, and putting that power into other parts of the kit, giving clearer weaknesses to play around).

-Meddler

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/cwfTKBxg-riot-meddler-shen-is-the-worst-top-laner-now-because-of-618-nerfs-when-can-we-expect-the-buffs?comment=00010001000000000000

152 Comments

MordepoolNov 5, 201623 votes

Riot can listen but usually the damage is already done.
Mordekaiser 5.16. Never Forget

MarshbouyNov 5, 201662 votes

Pretty sure Azir and Kalista are in a worse position than your poor little mordekaiser.

Big LincolnNov 5, 201618 votes

are you really gonna have a pissing contest about who's worse when all 3 of them are dog shit?

Sagan ForeverNov 5, 201639 votes

Morde is actually in a good place right now. The shit pile is Azir, Shen, kalista, aatrox, and kog maw.

Big LincolnNov 5, 201641 votes

mordekaiser doesn't even have a 1% pick rate

his 50% winrate is malicious metal and 2 other dudes

TheHappyReaperzNov 5, 20168 votes

Aatrox doesn't even have a .2% pick rate

Big LincolnNov 5, 20169 votes

which leads back to my main point

all of them are fucking bad, who cares about who's worse

nice tableNov 5, 20168 votes

meanwhile mordekaiser is becoming meta over in korea - must really need those buffs.

Big LincolnNov 5, 20167 votes

post evidence please, i'd like to see this

Malicious MetalNov 6, 20163 votes

It's ONE patch, very low sample size, and it's low elo.

Hell, Morde has always been a noob stomper.

DracocrashNov 5, 20162 votes

highest winrate in lower elo korean soloque.

Big LincolnNov 5, 201617 votes

lower elo

lol

SociopathFriendNov 6, 20162 votes

I have this sudden vision of Malicious checking GG.com or whatever it is and seeing that someone randomly used Mord in a game and lost.

"I MUST CORRECT THIS IMMEDIATELY!" He proceeds to start a game up and win

EedatNov 5, 20164 votes

Speak for yourself AP Kog is alive and well

Chromatic EagleNov 5, 20162 votes

Thought Riot killed that?

Hyrum GraffNov 5, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncft6YG7,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-05T21:22:34.850+0000)

Thought Riot killed that?

Brought it back a few patches ago. Mana buffs on ult and smoother scaling on execute damage.

WarlockLawNov 6, 20164 votes

Unfortunately

MordepoolNov 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure Azir and Kalista are in a worse position than your poor little mordekaiser.

Probably, not sure about azir since he has a high skill ceiling all 3 however have a design problem. My point is that riot does and should go ahead with changes while completely ignoring the mains. Riot should however be more considerate when shit goes Monumentally Sideways. Hate Morde all you want but he is the poster boy for Riot fuckin up and shows how they should try harder to communicate with the players. They started the Dev Corner open forum talks because of how bad they missed the Mark on Morde. They broke my champion and you guys get to reap the benefits.

I hope they fix kalista and azir since they are working on it unlike my precious Morde

Nik NikersonNov 5, 20161 votes

What was Riot inconsiderate about, and what exactly should they have communicated with the players more about?

MordepoolNov 6, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncft6YG7,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2016-11-05T21:25:25.945+0000)

What was Riot inconsiderate about, and what exactly should they have communicated with the players more about?

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/KhcvQBlG-mordekaiser-change-summary-feedback-thread?comment=002a0000

Xhieron read his post and a few others. And then bear in mind this was a unanimous outcry before it went out. CertainlyT total amount of conversation (about gameplay) with the players is in this post he was asked repeatedly not to do the Rework with well reasoned arguments about the forced design but all we get is 4 posts and the refusal of any meaningful conversation

General Esdeath Nov 6, 20163 votes

Azir/Kalista didn't have reworks. Imagine if Riot released reworks for them and every pro player who ever played them (qtpie, doublelift, bjerg, faker) all agreed the reworks were bad but Riot did it anyway and then the champs were gutted again back to a place where they're worse than before. That's Morde 5.16

Zone of EndlessNov 5, 201620 votes

I'm certain the majority said Kalista was gonna be busted on release with that passive alone.

The majority also disagreed on replacing soloq with dynamic q yet Riot still forced DQ for the whole season.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 5, 201620 votes

Everyone thinks that everything will be busted on release, either OP or useless. Nobody ever actually knows until it comes out and is used for a few weeks.

Big LincolnNov 5, 20163 votes

i remember saying bard would be op on release and i was right

and riot buffs him to pick or ban status, gg

dlayedNov 5, 20169 votes

Except bard was useless on release unless used by a select few and was only strong until they slightly buffed him each patch until he was strong and even now he's not even busted so quiet

Big LincolnNov 5, 20166 votes

bard is literally the strongest support mid laner ADC in the game, he has no weaknesses

he will fk ur wife and then E out of ur house if he gets caught, no counterplay to his broken mobility and damage even kass wasn't this busted

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 6, 20167 votes

cant tell if youre trolling

IceKingChernobogNov 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'm certain the majority said Kalista was gonna be busted on release with that passive alone.

The majority also disagreed on replacing soloq with dynamic q yet Riot still forced DQ for the whole season.

Yep, Forums complained about Kalista being a broken mess on both PBE and Normal Forums before she was released and that she shouldn't be released in that state until riot tweaks her kit to make it healthier. DQ got massive backlash as well and yet it was released onto live servers.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 6, 20163 votes

DQ is different. There's nothing actually wrong with it, Riot just caved to the perception of whiny players.

IceKingChernobogNov 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncft6YG7,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-11-06T01:57:04.820+0000)

DQ is different. There's nothing actually wrong with it, Riot just caved to the perception of whiny players.

Explain to me how DQ wasn't a failure?

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 6, 20163 votes

It didn't really change anything except let you play with more friends but people threw a fit over nothing. You're able to climb just as well solo as you are in a premade

Dextix LTNov 6, 20162 votes

You're able to climb just as well solo as you are in a premade

Factually incorrect, try again.

TeCoolMageNov 6, 20162 votes

Are there actually any statistics saying solo queue players have lower winrates than 5 man premades?

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 6, 20163 votes

no its not. riot released graphs and everything showing the win rate was the same

IceKingChernobogNov 6, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncft6YG7,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-06T06:53:53.774+0000)

It didn't really change anything except let you play with more friends but people threw a fit over nothing. You're able to climb just as well solo as you are in a premade

Are you kidding me!? There were valid reasons why people disliked DQ. Granted there were a few positive well needed changes that were given to us such as choosing your role instead of fighting over it like a pack of wild animals. If you wanted to play and mess around with friends there was Team builder and Normal Draft and Blind pick to choose from, if you wanted to get a bit more serious there was Ranked 5v5. For some reason Riot thought Mixing team ranked and Solo/Duo ranked would be a great idea but it failed and it back fired.

DQ was to lessen toxicity but actually did the opposite. 4 man teams would pin the blame on and or report the 1 solo if things didnt go well, Or for shits and giggles. The best case scenario is that the 4 man would be on their curse chat while the solo laner is kinda left out of the loop and have to fend for themselves for the majority of the match.

2.Elo Boosting is in at an all time high, There were posts about Diamond and plats having a boosted bronze/silver on their or the enemy team and it still is a problem. DQ pretty much enabled ELO boosting. "Oh i'll just ask my Plat friend to get on their smurf and roflmao boost me to diamond or something"

Team balance was terrible. A team of 5 solos getting pitted against a 5 man premade who has curse or skype. You can tell who's in a a premade just by coordination and comp alone.

So no, people we're not bitching about DQ for "no reason"

LuunaLilyNov 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

DQ was to lessen toxicity but actually did the opposite. 4 man teams would pin the blame on and or report the 1 solo if things didnt go well, Or for shits and giggles. The best case scenario is that the 4 man would be on their curse chat while the solo laner is kinda left out of the loop and have to fend for themselves for the majority of the match.

Honestly, as a solo player, I haven't had a single case of this for the entire season. So either I'm not getting matched with premades (good) or they're not as toxic as you say they are (great!).

Kawaii ChadNov 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'm certain the majority said Kalista was gonna be busted on release with that passive alone.

The majority also disagreed on replacing soloq with dynamic q yet Riot still forced DQ for the whole season.

even now, Riot is forcing plants upon us

MarshbouyNov 5, 201613 votes

Exactly. Just because they don't respond to criticism doesn't mean they don't hear it.

SaiannaNov 5, 20165 votes

Just cause they hear our criticism doesn't mean they don't actually ignore it.

Nik NikersonNov 5, 201617 votes

Just because you have a criticism doesn't mean it's worth listening to.

LeMemeBoyNov 5, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncft6YG7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-05T20:30:13.383+0000)

Just because you have a criticism doesn't mean it's worth listening to.

when an overwhelming number of players point out something is bad, and will be unhealthy for the game, it's worth listening to. Ekko Yasuo Azir Kalista Shen sated devourer, Sejuani getting nerfed to shit because of item 1413 , and then being left to rot after cinder gets gutted afterwards.

boot enchantment removal DQ sword of the occult removal, while mejai's gets to stay item 3075 nerf which played a huge part in this adc meta item 3078 nerf because it was being abused by Ekko Yasuo tanks

introduction of 9 keystone talents, while only 3 can be considered universally good, and the other 6 are considered situational/garbage. no price drop on t3 runes, which can cost anywhere from 5k ip to 18k to fill a page depending on what you get.

there have been YEARS of valid suggestions that have been completely ignored by riot in order for them to balance around pro-play, and build their e-sport.

remember SoAG, and SoEL?(spirit of ancient golem and elder lizard) yeah nobody wanted to removed. we definitely didn't want them removed to add shitty warrior, and even shittier feral flare/sated devourer. still got removed for those.

the only thing riot has REALLY listened to the playerbase about in a timely fashion before they left a sour taste in everyone's mouth was the LeeSin nerfs.

almost EVERY other time riot has just said "we know more than you, and we're going to do this" only to end up removing or reverting that change after it damages the game for half of a season.

Nik NikersonNov 5, 20165 votes

And yet the majority of ideas put forward by the masses are absolutely stupid. Seriously, I have seen a "[Insert champion name here} is OP NERF PLS RITO" thread on pretty much every single champion. I've seen people complain about pretty much every single aspect of the game, often in wildly contradictory ways.

Also, half the things you list, no one actually cares about. No one misses Sword of the Occult, nor should they. Just because someone complains about something, doesn't mean there's actually an issue.

Dextix LTNov 6, 20162 votes

Want to know the difference? Those threads were solo ones. The outcry for these things was big, not 1 thread by some random player.

SaiannaNov 5, 20165 votes

That is obvious. But there are some who are worth listening to.

Yet they are just as ignored.