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League of "LOL Nope"

Penta Penguin··65 votes·4,935 views

You know, I'm totally okay with Thresh. I'm totally okay with his Lantern, because it's still up to your ally to save themselves and they can be caught before they're able to grab it.

But this past year there has been an influx of "fuck you" abilities that have become rather common-place now in the game. We already have the Kayle Interventions and the Zilean Chronoshifts, I feel like this sort of thing has just been ruined and all of the current and future champions who have it are just less unique because of it.

Not to mention it's F'ING ANNOYING with these champions being in a long-standing meta;

The first major offender was Kalista with her Thresh Lantern 2.0, featuring 100% less counterplay and 100% more impact as both a reposition and a CC ability. Ok fine, she'll probably bond with the support right? It's just a support!

Well next comes a mid-lane carry named Ekko who also has his own invulnerability, %damage heal and lack of regard for actually having to play smart like Rito wanted him to.

And to complete this year's trifecta of bullshit, here comes Tahm Kench who actually can Invuln any one of his carries. If Thresh throws a lantern to save a carry, you have a chance to stop that play from happening. If Tahm wants to save a carry, you can go eat a dick because he's gonna do it.

Like the rotten cherry on top, having all 4 of these champions in one game is actually a legit team comp.

I know Riot has said they're done with these mechanics for next year, but it's kind of too late and we're stuck with the game this way now.

92 Comments

DeloricVI15 votes

Yup, sounds about right.

Honestly, that's not even the worst of it. So many mechanics in this game are not balanced at all and annoying as fuck to deal with. Eventually, Riot doesn't change it and through some kind of stockholm-syndrome mentality, we just accept it. When the hell did we decide that Fizz getting a free zhonia's combined with a dash on a cooldown that's 1/10 of zhonia's cooldown or less was completely balanced???

Just because it doesn't break the game so hard that it means winning every time, doesn't mean it's totally balanced and not annoying anymore.

undesirable team36 votes

{quoted}

Yup, sounds about right.

Honestly, that's not even the worst of it. So many mechanics in this game are not balanced at all and annoying as fuck to deal with. Eventually, Riot doesn't change it and through some kind of stockholm-syndrome mentality, we just accept it. When the hell did we decide that Fizz getting a free zhonia's combined with a dash on a cooldown that's 1/10 of zhonia's cooldown or less was completely balanced???

Just because it doesn't break the game so hard that it means winning every time, doesn't mean it's totally balanced and not annoying anymore.

There's a reason that fizz cannot stay on his troll pole forever... He's UNBALANCED [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Zair Umbras13 votes

We decided Fizz was balanced when we realized after he falls off the pole, he instantly explodes with his guts flying everywhere where-as other ones like Tahm's W... Especially Tahm's W... don't exactly have any downsides. What's the downside of pressing W on your carry when he gets targeted by CC like Vi's R or has a Veigar R heading his way? Nothing at all. Carry gets pulled away then tossed into a new, better position. Even Kayle and Tryn can be CC'd during their R's and/or kited whereas Kali and Tahm get to go 'lolnope' without any form of counterplay or anything.

Llanite3 votes

The downside is the ability slot you lose.

Let's face it, besides the w, he has nothing of value as a support. He does not help you win the lane, does not help you not lose it, all he does is to make sure when you do lose, you don't feed.

Zair Umbras5 votes

He's not played as a support is one of the biggest issues. He sucks as a support and is nearly impossible to kick out of lane while after 6, he gets to build defensively and do plenty of damage.

As a support though, he can easily carry a lane by leveling his W. You just Q at the enemy ADC, AA him twice since he's slowed by 40% for a couple seconds, then W him for about a quarter of his health early on on top of the damage you just did with the 2 AA's and Q. Of the tanky supports, he's got just as much beef and more damage. He can't CC like Leona or Thresh, but in lane he can make sure your ADC doesn't touch his ADC.

Westonbirt1 votes

Since I play him as a support I must say he is a very safe pick. Unless your adc is a potato, you'll be fine. He is very hard to kick out and impossible to gank. Particularly effective against picks like Leona.

On the flipside he has very "one-target" identity overall. He can save_ one person_. He can shut down_ one carry_. But he can't do things like stun an entire team. Or split a fight while healing people.

Moreover, he needs to get at the enemy. If you are against a comp that tends to dive people, it's great. Against a poke comp, less so.

T RexHasTinyArms3 votes

Maybe I just don't play bot lane enough, but I feel like ranged poke, a conditional stun, self sustain/double hp via shield for trading frequently bot lane, and bonus damage from ult as well as reposition so in theory bot lane actually has the option to roam and get kills that way for once sounds like it might be useful for getting ahead. Plus he can eat an opponent and bring them back a little bit to separate them from the other player when you go all in on a gank (tahm spitting an enemy into a full channel nunu ult is pretty funny and probably a kill most of the time bc there's no way to avoid the nunu damage which is balanced around almost never getting to go off on a long channel).

Westonbirt1 votes

The poke is great, the sustain is great, the bonus damage is appreciated. The rest is pretty conditional. You can't really rely on the stun unless you're having a long drawn fight. His ult sounds great, and it can be but it takes 18 work days to travel with, it's best use as a deterrent or to close an escape route, also if the enemy is very pushed - but at any rate you need to be a danger in and out of yourself.

As for his W, it's good to keep an enemy in place, but since it slows yourself by a ton, you can't decently use it as a relocation tool. Still works if his team is running away.

Pupel2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nZKOLI9L,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-11-08T03:01:57.180+0000)

We decided Fizz was balanced when we realized after he falls off the pole, he instantly explodes with his guts flying everywhere where-as other ones like Tahm's W... Especially Tahm's W... don't exactly have any downsides. What's the downside of pressing W on your carry when he gets targeted by CC like Vi's R or has a Veigar R heading his way? Nothing at all. Carry gets pulled away then tossed into a new, better position. Even Kayle and Tryn can be CC'd during their R's and/or kited whereas Kali and Tahm get to go 'lolnope' without any form of counterplay or anything.

Not true say tham eats his adc stun that dued and sit on top of him and wait till he pukes his guts out. boom you have one fresh adc right there

Zair Umbras5 votes

You're going to blow 6s of CC on the tank..?

CrisisEchoes1 votes

{quoted}

Yup, sounds about right.

Honestly, that's not even the worst of it. So many mechanics in this game are not balanced at all and annoying as fuck to deal with. Eventually, Riot doesn't change it and through some kind of stockholm-syndrome mentality, we just accept it. When the hell did we decide that Fizz getting a free zhonia's(you do realise dots and tethers dont break) combined with a dash on a cooldown that's 1/10 of zhonia's cooldown or less was completely balanced???(zhonyas gives armor and ap as well, annnnd it doesnt cost 110 mana to use lvl 1)

Just because it doesn't break the game so hard that it means winning every time, doesn't mean it's totally balanced and not annoying anymore.

Arguing that fizz isnt balanced is one of the most blown out circlejerks ever, that champ is so underpowered its not even funny. His lvl 1-4 is so shit that champions like vladamir can win lane against him sometimes

Synx77 votes

{quoted}

Arguing that fizz isnt balanced is one of the most blown out circlejerks ever, that champ is so underpowered its not even funny. His lvl 1-4 is so shit that champions like vladamir can win lane against him sometimes

Fizz main confirmed. Go spoil ur shit somewhere else.

CrisisEchoes3 votes

{quoted}

Fizz main confirmed. Go spoil ur shit somewhere else.

Yeah im a fizz player, which gives me a right to talk about his balance. Just getting facerolled by a skilled fizz player doesnt give you a right to argue about his balance. Sure if he got fed to the point of having an item ahead of everybody else, he deserves to blow up your squishys over and over again. It takes skill to do that. Just because someone plays better than you doesnt mean a champions overpowered. Play fizz for yourself, id love to watch it.

CatAndBookTails7 votes

When Fizz litterally kills your adc by jumping next to them (which you litterally cant stop) and hitting a pointblank skillshot (wow so hard such skillz) and uses Q to deal about 70% of their health you sure feel like you got outskilled :^)

CrisisEchoes4 votes

{quoted}

When Fizz litterally kills your adc by jumping next to them (which you litterally cant stop) and hitting a pointblank skillshot (wow so hard such skillz) and uses Q to deal about 70% of their health you sure feel like you got outskilled :^)

For that to deal that much damage, fizz had to outplay someone to get to that point. Damage is earned, not given. Its frustrating, and at the point he does that, no skill is required. You could say the same for almost every champion in the game tho. Give ahri 3 kills in laning, she quickly turns from a mage dps into an assasin with zero counterplay.

CatAndBookTails5 votes

Ahri will have to dash into your team WITHOUT untargetability and will have to kill your adc with multiple (given blank) skillshots that atleast have some animation time before the adc gets blown up. Atleast Ahri has to try to get to that point, fizz just goes full out potions in the early game and kills anyone that tries to pressure him with all the free damage he gets in the form of dots (oh you got hit by one autoattack, here, lose almost half your health) For fizz to get fed it's just soo incredibly easy, he has to barly do anything for it.

CrisisEchoes3 votes

{quoted}

Ahri will have to dash into your team WITHOUT untargetability and will have to kill your adc with multiple (given blank) skillshots that atleast have some animation time before the adc gets blown up. Atleast Ahri has to try to get to that point, fizz just goes full out potions in the early game and kills anyone that tries to pressure him with all the free damage he gets in the form of dots (oh you got hit by one autoattack, here, lose almost half your health) For fizz to get fed it's just soo incredibly easy, he has to barly do anything for it.

Go play fizz vs any midlaner with a brain and then get back to me. Fizz has as many skillshots as ahri does, and his ultimate moves as slow as a morg q, and its so easy to flash/sidestep its not even funny. There is a reason that even westdoor isnt playing fizz as much, and hes probably the best fizz player in the world

CatAndBookTails3 votes

Skillshots she has to put effort into to hit atleast. Morgana's binding moves at 1200 and Chum moves at 1300 btw, you are a real main huh? Not to mention that Fizz's chum doesn't dissapear or how it's hitbox is enormous. Practically he walks up to you/q's through a minion and uses e+ult to oneshot anyone he likes without counterplay. the only thing you can do against fizz is (hopefully) trading one for one or hoping that he kills someone that's not worth as much, considering chum will probably never miss.

CrisisEchoes3 votes

{quoted}

Skillshots she has to put effort into to hit atleast. Morgana's binding moves at 1200 and Chum moves at 1300 btw, you are a real main huh? Not to mention that Fizz's chum doesn't dissapear or how it's hitbox is enormous. Practically he walks up to you/q's through a minion and uses e+ult to oneshot anyone he likes without counterplay. the only thing you can do against fizz is (hopefully) trading one for one or hoping that he kills someone that's not worth as much, considering chum will probably never miss.

There is plenty of counterplay before he gets fed, and if he gets fed, he deserves to win. Jungle camps earlygame destroy him, ranged auto attackers destroy him, mages destroy him. Hard cc destroys him. and the list goes on. Just because i dont nerd out on missilespeeds, doesnt mean i dont have a really high winrate and kdr on him.

Kitty von Tuna1 votes

So if he decides to E in, and follow up with Q+W, wtf are you gonna do? What is the counterplay to that?

CrisisEchoes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitty von Tuna,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nZKOLI9L,comment-id=00000002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T21:49:12.282+0000)

So if he decides to E in, and follow up with Q+W, wtf are you gonna do? What is the counterplay to that?

not being in a position that he can do that, dont feed him to the point hsi qw 1shots... uhhh theres much much more

Kitty von Tuna1 votes

If you can position yourself out of Fizz's range, then it's a bad Fizz. ''dont feed him''. He deals shittons of damage with one item. You can say the same about every champ. Then nobody is op, because of somebody else gets more kills they can kill them

CrisisEchoes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitty von Tuna,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nZKOLI9L,comment-id=0000000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-10T21:11:50.851+0000)

If you can position yourself out of Fizz's range, then it's a bad Fizz. ''dont feed him''. He deals shittons of damage with one item. You can say the same about every champ. Then nobody is op, because of somebody else gets more kills they can kill them

No, if he scales at an average rate, he does not do a shit tun of damage unless he lands his entire kit on you. In that case you deserve to die.

thePandev9 votes

Hate when people say, ''Ekko has a free button to just get out of any mistake''. Yeah, that's also the ability that contains 50% of his actual damage, on a high CD.

Penta Penguin11 votes

"50%"

?

thePandev1 votes

{quoted}

"50%"

?

If he wastes his ultimate on something like that, then all he really brings to a teamfight is his hard to land AoE stun, and maybe 1 kill.

LegacyDAP1 votes

This is coming from someone who plays Ekko with a high win ratio. All the Ekko players say the stun is hard to land and it really isn't honestly. The ult has one of the lowest cooldowns for something so strong it's not even funny, he does damage without the ult anyways because of his w passive and actual passive, and he probably has one of the best gap closers in the game.

The Ginger Ninga1 votes

Can confirm, playing Ekko against someone with no mobility (Brand Cassiopeia Velkoz ) and you got really easy stuns. Combine this with the fact that you got weak, but repeatable burst because of your relatively low mana costs, and you can easily win most of your lanes like this unless you get camped or get outplayed.

I will say landing his ult is very important in teamfights if you are behind, but if you're snowballing you can just walk all over everyone.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Ekko has mana costs?

LadyRenly7 votes

any arrangement of tryn, kayle, zil, tahm, thresh, ekko kalista and kindred sounds like fun.

to play.

but not for you

Keevalroy5 votes

I know Riot has said they're done with these mechanics for next year,

Are they though? Are they really? Maybe so, but they'll just end up going back to giving every champion 600 passives, free stats, and unlimited mobility.

Llanite3 votes

50% of Ekko dmg is his R, if he used it as an escape, he has zero kill pressure. Same goes for Fizz. Kalista R saves her support, but in exchange she does not have a combat ult, compared to Graves, Cait, Ez, Draven, she's 400 dmg short which is a huge handicap early-mid game.

It's how power budgeting works, In order to have the disengage, they sacrifice a lot of combat stats, to put it in perspective, if they did not have these disengage and had their power put into something else, they would be a lot stronger in combat and you would not have won to begin with.

Penta Penguin6 votes

i don't play Ekko a lot but I've gotten plenty of 1v1 or pick-offs without my ult

The ult is like the over-kill button if their whole team is bad enough to stand on your echo-ghost, i'ts a very very conditional "50%"

Llanite1 votes

It's not situational, have you tried 1v1 Annie/Malz/Swain/Pantheon at full health without your ult?

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

why would you ever dare to 1v1 them without your ult though that's just stupid. Hell i wouldn't 1v1 the swain even with my ult.

Llanite2 votes

Because the commenter claimed to 1v1 people just fine without his R.

Anidan1 votes

So you brought some of the most renowned 1v1s in the game against him? He never said who he 1v1'd, just that he 1v1'd without his ult because with Ekko, it sometimes really isn't necessary.

Antsy Armadillo3 votes

I still wonder who decided Kalista get's infinite mobility.

Urgonnalearn2day3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cranky Coyote,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nZKOLI9L,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-11-08T08:11:55.544+0000)

I still wonder who decided Kalista get's infinite mobility.

For how much it bothers my hand doing that I'm okay with it. She wins the game and you don't get carpal tunnel. Sounds fair to me.

T RexHasTinyArms3 votes

TahmKench, Ekko, Yorick, or Kayle Top Ekko, Kayle, or Kindred Jungle Kayle, Zilean, or Ekko Mid Kalista, or Kindred ADC TahmKench, Bard, Zilean, or Thresh Support

It's actually fairly easy to create an entire team comp where every champ has the ability to save a teammate, revive, or provide invulnerability to anyone on the team for a few seconds.

If we're counting Ekko like the OP did though we could in theory add every champ that has either the ability to go invulnerable or to disregard death which would add Fizz, Fiora, Tryndamere, MasterYi, Morgana (her shield might count for saving a teammate), Poppy, and any of the champs with "post death deals damage anyway" passives that you wanted to add if you don't care that at least then the enemy gets gold for killing them before still taking more damage if it is a full engage team fight.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

No mention of kindred

Penta Penguin4 votes

kindred at least has consequences and the enemy can play around it and even get healed themselves

Urgonnalearn2day4 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nZKOLI9L,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-08T00:47:16.306+0000)

No mention of kindred

OP likes playing kindred so its ok.

(Which is how this stuff goes.... nerf every champ I don't play).

Penta Penguin1 votes

uh what

no i don't really like playing kindred and i don't think i've even played 5 games as her since she came out

I just fought a kindred though and her ults were not unfair, you can play around it, take the heal for yourself, knock them out of the circle, etc.

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

Kindred's ult has all sorts of counterplay though. You can literally sit in there with her and kill her when it ends, you get healed too.

Robertsmash1 votes

{quoted}

Kindred's ult has all sorts of counterplay though. You can literally sit in there with her and kill her when it ends, you get healed too.

Unless they have a Kalista in the circle with Kindred, who now gets to stack even more spears before she wipes your team off the map.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

i think that's a little specific though...if we're gonna play that game then the team without kalista has Blitzcrank who can ult everyone, silencing kalista so she can't rend.

Robertsmash2 votes

{quoted}

i think that's a little specific though...if we're gonna play that game then the team without kalista has Blitzcrank who can ult everyone, silencing kalista so she can't rend.

Yeah but Kalista was spell-shielded by Morgana

:^)

Omiwom2 votes

You forgot Kindred

Zedex1 votes

"Oh but she's new, people just don't know how to play her yet!"

Or in other words, the masses haven't decided she's crazy strong yet so they'll leave her alone until their shepherd comes along to whisk them away to the jungle.

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