We don't necessarily need drastic changes to AP items, we just need more of them

Mister Support··6 votes·669 views

Right now there is a large lack of item diversity for mages and the issue isn't that some items are overpowered or under-powered, it's that there is a lack of AP items that fulfill desired, more broad niches. Playing vs. a lot of AD? item 3157 , vs. AP? item 3102 , want to burst squishies? item 3151 item 3020 , Need help vs tanks? item 3151 item 3135 , mana problem early game? item 3165 , mana problems lasting to late game? item 3003 item 3027 , nothing else to buy and need a lot more damage? item 3089 , better poke? item 3285 , AP scaling basic attack style ability? item 3100 , keep enemy at mid-range? item 3030 , diver? item 3152 , are you Azir? item 3115

As can be seen, most of the niches only have ONE option to them making the decision in buying items linear, or some of these niches apply to very specific cases as with item 3100 and item 3115 .

Something could be done to the items to make those specific niches a little more broad, such as lowering the internal cooldown and damage of lichbane to make it more desired by those who weave auto's between spells, or make nashor's tooth work on towers to make it desired for tower taking and split pushing.

However, I'd like to just see more items get made out of components like item 3802 , item 3136 , and for item 3135 to get the item 3035 treatment, turn the item into a component item and the final items to fit different roles such as better vs. health stacking (same thing Giant Slayer does) or better vs MR stacking (black cleaver style but with MR). The examples I gave there shouldn't be taken too seriously it was just something off the top of my head, I recognize that an MR version of black cleaver could be busted completely.

Obviously, Uniquely named passives would be necessary to prevent people from stacking these niche items.

13 Comments

Penns2 votes

I want AP item 3026 at least 1 item for ap assassins that is as strong as duskblade/counters shields item 3135 to split into 2+ more interesting items like Last Whisper item 3157 item 3100 item 3089 buffs maybe item 3165 item 3151 item 3027 nerfs

ty

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

If AP gets GA, than AD gets Zhonya's.

There's a reason they made the item AD in the update

Penns1 votes

item 3156 item 3139 item 3812 item 3034

they said an ap ga wasnt very appealing because zhonyas exists, so i dont see a problem, just add it hehe

SithesisLord2 votes

They made the item AD because they love AD champions.

Tanks almost always building the old GA as a last item wasn´t okay, but somehow AD champions building it as a third item is.

That logic in making GA an AD item is almost as retarded as the logic behind making Zeal items cost the same.

Vekkna2 votes

I would like to see an AP Trinity build out of item 3057 item 3101 item 3136

I think it should also be fairly obvious at this point that we need a stat stick itemized with 100 AP, 10% CDR, and 10 mpen for ~3350 gold.

We need a component item with only 30 AP and 5-10 mpen for ~1100-1200 gold.

We need a Catalyst option with CDR to compete with Morello.

We need an AP item that uses Crystalline Bracer or Chalice and provides high hp sustain out of combat to stay on map late game; hp sustain is something every other class has access to (life steal, warmogs, etc).

If I could make my own perfect AP item, it would be an AP equivalent of Youmuu's (AP, mpen, movespeed, cdr).

But it's funny how translating other classes' itemization into AP, it seems completely impossible that Riot would ever create such items. I seriously can't even imagine them making an item with AP, mpen, cdr, and movespeed for 2900 gold.

Mister Support1 votes

Rather than Catalyst I'd like to see more Lost Chapter items as well.

One thing I will admit is that because of low base MR values on all champions having high amounts of options for MPen would become problematic...UNLESS it's made to be a unique passive stat from Haunting guise that can't be stacked. That's a twist I'd love to see to provide more options for AP assassins.

Vekkna1 votes

The typical base armor-MR ratio is approximately 1.6:1. The current lethality-mpen ratio available through items is 2.1:1. And that doesn't even account for the fact that so many AD champs just ignore armor for free via armor shred or true damage:

Darius Gangplank Yasuo Garen JarvanIV Jayce KogMaw Nasus Renekton Trundle Vi MonkeyKing XinZhao Fiora Irelia Vayne MasterYi Olaf RekSai

And all of that exists alongside BC and LW. So I think it's more that fair to say that mpen itemization is lacking, in full context and limited only to base values.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

You're forgetting a handy little thing called Void Staff, which ignores 35% of total MR. Not bonus like the Last Whisper line, total.

That's why there aren't as many MPen options (also because nearly every mage will have a flat 15 due to boots, and that's normally about half of squishy's MR)

Jbels1 votes

But you just got a new one item 3157 's Paradox kappa

Mister Support1 votes

Make Ornn into permanent shop keeper, then he'll have a 50% winrate :^)

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Here's the problem:

With the exception of like <5 AP champions, they all deal burst damage (and even some of the DPS style ones still deal a large amount of burst at the start of their combo). This leads to champions trying to optimize to get the most amount of damage out in the shortest amount of time. And with the exception of a few champions needing specific items, the most built AP items provide that.

Whereas AD champions have much different styles of play, which leads to different kinds of items. Lethality items provide straight up burst, but don't due so well with DPS, whereas crit items do more DPS, but require more investment.

You can't change how AP builds end up without systematically changing how AP champions work.

Mister Support1 votes

Part of it is also the limitation of current build options making the best possible route for most champions to be Burst, and it's what the champions were then balanced around. Should new build options be introduced it would allow the champions to draw back to their niches.

In other words, it would be a long process for an ultimately positive outcome.

Chaos Milk Tea1 votes

While ap champions typically have similar damage patterns, many have diverse and interesting utility. Focussing on the l utility potential of mages could help diversify their items. Right now the main things you build to help out your team is rylais, or just more cdr. Athene's was meant to provide that sort of utility but it never really came into heavy use.

Also dps mages who dont auto really dont have items aimed at them.

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