Comment with a champion, and see if someone will respond with how to deal with them!

Mister Support·Apr 20, 2017·113 votes·14,231 views

Lately there's been another rise in people complaining about champions (something normal to the boards). And so, thought it'd be a great idea to make at thread where people can ask how to play around a certain champion and get an answer! When you comment, also say what lane/situation you need help dealing with them in (such as Yasuo mid in lane, or Darius in teamfights)

Edit: please remember to upvote the thread so this can be visible to more people if you want to get answer!

595 Comments

TormentulaApr 20, 201725 votes

Pantheon top lane

I enjoy losing farm hugging tower and getting poked by Q until lee eventually dives me.

Mister SupportApr 20, 20177 votes

Someone tanky early or with high sustain (Renekton, Darius, Nautilus, Maokai) can survive well against him, and surviving early is about all you can hope to do. As long as he doesn't snowball then you win, because Pantheon falls off like a cliff.

Also, invest in early items such as Corrupting potion, Doran's shield, and early armor.

OelykApr 20, 201721 votes

Believe it or not, he has an incredible mana drop, keep an eye on his mana, cause his full combo cost 145 mana(only E scales with level, Q is 45 and W is 55 respectively.)

If he cant use his full combo, go ham. To make him waste mana on you(and if he spears a minion, thats a victory) get some form of sustain and tankiness, if you go 0-0 in lane thats a massive win, cause he falls off damn hard.

His passive makes him nigh impossible to trade with cause autos are a big part of your damage in fights, and a good Pantheon will try to always keep his up, often getting 2-3 per fight(W refreshes it! 4 aa/spells put it back up, meaning even if you just proced it, a full spell rotation and an AA puts it back up.)

Keep in mind if he uses his W to engage he loses out on procing his passive, meaning he will take more damage, try to fight him a bit and dont let him just WAAQE and run away, Darius works pretty well but don't use W on him when he has passive, it gets negated.

Possible counter picks: Renekton, Fiora(Easy W), Riven, Rumble. People with shields to block poke and still have the damages. If you have more specific match-up questions, ask away.

Faceroll TacticsApr 20, 20175 votes

Riven doesn't counter pantheon, his aegis blocks auto attacks and autos are 70% of rivens damage, especially early game since her q does negligible damage and your w does less then an auto.

OelykApr 20, 20176 votes

I was just thinking along the line of manaless and has a shield, which effectively makes laning against him so much more manageable.

I really didn't think about all in, and most Riven main to some extent can W Panth's W with a good set up and good reactions, effectively cancelling eachothers stuns out even if Rivens is 0.25 seconds less. NOT TO MENTION most Riven mains know that just facing a target then pressing Q behind them still does the Q, but she doesn't stop right in front, effectively making it more "sticky" while potentially getting behind them, making Panth's E half as effective.

I don't want new Riven's to lane into Panth, because most of them are to focused to actually examine the match up all that deeply while most Panths will just be focusing on trading autos and throwing Q's till they can all in.

EDIT: It's about who is the aggressor in the trade, Panth loses out on his passive using W to engage, while Riven loses out on a shield or damage, however in the passive play style, which is the last thing on Riven players minds(gotta get that first blood!) she actually wins, cause Pantheon falls off, she can deal with poke, and such, so Yeah I still think Riven is a counter because both are such snowball champions, but Riven only gets better while Pantheon only falls harder in an even lane.

Warlord DienekesApr 20, 20176 votes

Alright, so the way to beat Pantheon is coordination. Especially with your jungler. Pantheon is such a lane bully that if you're not playing specific anti-Pantheon champions (basically high armor tanks or characters with better range harass than him, such as Quinn) your best bet is to just farm, and talk to your jungler and team. The worst thing to happen to me as a Panth main is a jungler camping my lane.

But here's the thing, so long as you keep him from killing you and stay roughly even with your cs you win. A Pantheon that doesn't have 3+ kills by the time mid-game starts is a Pantheon who is going to be having a very bad day.

Now, because of his ult, if you're playing too passively for him, he may jump to other lanes.

This again, is countered by you talking to your team. You MUST tell them that Panth has his ult up. You MUST tell them when he hits 6. Your job is to make him waste his ult jumping on someone who safely gets out of the way making him whiff his ult and about half his mana in the early game. And allows you time to keep farming your lane.

Keep coordinating, keep talking, and stay safe. Organize ganks with your jungler. If he's a usual Panth player he will start taking greater and greater risks to get kills which you can try to capitalize on. If he's smart and just tries to farm, hopefully you have gotten to the point where you can at least survive his burst and get out and back to heal and keep farming.

After that, you've won. Pantheon falls off incredibly hard. If you make him money starved during the mid-game, his usual time to try and finish up a game or set up his allies to victory then you're basically now playing a 4v5.

Sadly, all of this depends on your allies willingness to listen to you. Try to be polite, when giving your warnings and asking for help. Try to let him push so he looks like a tempting target for your jungler. And understand if there's something a bit more important than you currently in play (say a dragon fight) you're on your own. Your job is just to survive. It may not be fun. It may be a pain in the ass, but know you're making that douchebag playing Pantheon on the other end not having fun either. He knows his limitations, he knows if he's not killing you he's going to be useless in about 15-20 minutes.

RiotRiot EllarianApr 21, 201713 votes

Rakan

GaliöApr 21, 201733 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Mantikles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G6oufBPl,comment-id=0061,timestamp=2017-04-21T20:51:48.027+0000)

Thresh... it's mister steal yo girl

RiotRiot EllarianApr 21, 201716 votes

:{

HalcyonDwellerApr 20, 201710 votes

Fiora Fiora

Mister SupportApr 20, 201711 votes

Early bruisers such as Renekton or Pantheon can shut her down early on, but for late game the best way to deal with her is force her into teamfights and CC her, she's squishy and susceptible to burst making her weak in teamfights.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 20178 votes

This type of response is cancer.

"Just CC her" Anyone who says this about any champion has a way to deal with her should be banned from the boards lmao

Mister SupportApr 20, 201716 votes

Did I say "just cc her" though? I said force her into teamfights then use CC in order to burst her, because she is inherently squishy and is easy to CC.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 20173 votes

Except for the part where her W makes her immune to CC lol

OelykApr 20, 20177 votes

In team fights, any decent team comp is bound to have multiple sources of CC, and being team fights are hectic as is, I have no doubt she can't block everything, and being more of a DPS unit, making her use her W is a victory in that she's not DPSing and now more vulnerable.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 20172 votes

If you force CC onto her and she blocks any of it. That's CC you didnt use to peel for your own ADC or to lock down theirs. Essentially meaning you wasted it and is always a victory for the Fiora player. "just CC her" doesn't work for Fiora because it is a win-win for her

HalcyonDwellerApr 20, 20178 votes

It still means she has to spend the second it takes to cast not doing anything else. It's still just like cc.

And you can still burst her afterwards.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 20173 votes

No, it is not. Normal CC you can follow up with Damage. This you can't.

We havent even mentioned the part where if you do try and hard CC her she just makes you fuck your entire team by using that CC on you

OelykApr 20, 20174 votes

Then there is no straight answer, your basically saying the same thing as forcing someone to sidestep an Elise cocoon, the don't do anything while dodging, and your are not doing any CC cause you missed.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 20172 votes

It isnt the same, you can dodge something and still cast abilities. She can literally reverse punish you for trying to CC her and is immune to all damage while she does it

OelykApr 20, 20175 votes

It takes an entire skill slot, and fits her theme. Honestly it's like Irelia's E, she can punish for winning a trade, the same is for Fiora, it's single target and honestly doesn't mean much in teamfights besides a miniature zhonyas and possibly stunning someone. You make her sound un-killable in teamfights, the fact is anyone can die in teamfights, regardless of a 1 second counter stance.

So, Why do you insist that she has no counter? I can think of infinite examples of counter comps while you could think of a million counter examples. No one is immune to CC forever(Fuck you too Olaf, 6 seconds is not forever.) and CC counters everyone in a sense, the inability to so something.

HalcyonDwellerApr 20, 201710 votes

Perhaps TheJakeinator's persistence with his point is due to a personal bias. It's the only explanation I can think of as to why he refuses to recognize the opposition's valid points.

ValeckseraiApr 20, 20179 votes

Just for shits and giggles I'll post my main and see what people come up with

Karthus

DoozkuApr 20, 201753 votes

Play soraka

Wacky9Apr 20, 20175 votes

Just dodge his Qs. Wait for Karthus to lose mana and then push turret. Karthus's kit is about dealing poke damage over time, not burst damage. Wait for him to exhaust his mana and he becomes extremely weak.

Edit: What I meant is that Karthus can't burst you unless he catches you alone. Don't try and solo him away from minions unless you have MR, or can easily outdamage him.

Weasel KenseiApr 20, 201722 votes

I love that your suggestion for defeating a champ is:

"Wait for the player playing him to fuck up a lot, then punish them for being bad."

A good Karth will only try to poke at an opponet with spare mana, and only go in on them when they overextend and he can wall of pain them and kite/Q spam them.

Only an idiot slams Qs all over the place in hopes they land some and then goes oom.

5000000000000000Apr 20, 201720 votes

I mean, capitalizing off of misplays is pretty much what you're supposed to do against anyone.

Weasel KenseiApr 21, 20179 votes

Yes, youre correct.

But in a thread about "how to deal with" and then a specific champ... what youre supposed to do against anyone is in poor taste imo.

Some ways to actually deal with Karth would probably include playing champs with lots of mobility. Champs with CC immunity or cleanse effects like Eve or GP. If you get caught by his wall of pain, then you will infact be in pain cause thats at least 2 Qs you will probably eat.

So any champ going up against him mid lane would have a much better laning phase if they bought item 3111 . Even if youre AP you can sell them later. They will significantly aid in avoiding his Qs, help take fewer Qs when you get hit with wall of pain, and help offset the magipen from the wall. Another option is item 3009 for avoiding Qs and recovering from wall of pain.

Champs like Yasuo, Zed, and Kat have the mobility to avoid repeated Qs and Zed and Kat can bypass the wall potentially if they get caught on the wrong side or want to continue an assault. AD champs can of course build item 3814 for timed ult avoidance. Anyone can build a item 3102 and have a decent chance of ignoring a few ults.

The most important thing is to never focus down a Karth first at an objective like Baron or Dragon because he will still be there as a ghost from his passive using attacks in the area. If you kill him in a general teamfight, leave the area. He will still be there and be vengeful.

Probably the best tip I can give is to really keep track of the jungler on Karths team. I know I slam my ult when the jungler is ganking bot every time I can. If I KNOW it will kill my enemy mid laner I will possibly do it, but sometimes I resist the urge and wait on that botlane gank. It gives me a good shot at either 2 assist, a kill and an assist, or a double kill.

Also if youre keeping wards up, it should be easier to avoid Karth ganks because if he comes to your lane with wall of pain then life is about to suck.

As was mentioned Soraka can really help take the sting out of a Karth ult, and avoid him getting a post teamfight/gank triple kill from anywhere on the map. Champs like Kayle and Lee Sin on your team also can aid in spot saving people from death.

If Karth gets ahead then avoiding him and trying to take objectives he isnt near till you can catch up is helpful. If hes really ahead then MR and playing smart are the only choices because if he ever gets to a point where he can ult and the lowest damage he does to anyone is 500 then other people may be taking 650 or even 800. At 500 AP and lvl 3 ult his base damage on ult is 850. With enough magipen he can ult and cut the HP on some of the enemy team by 1/2 to 1/3. It may also hit the enemy team with item 3116 .

If people play smart, dont feed Karth then he can be burned down quickly. Leaving the immediate area and resetting the engage will still have him doing some damage to your team, but hopefuly avoid any deaths.

Lastly item 3026 can help deal with him if isnt very strong but definitely a threat. Its another way to negate his ult as a killing tool. Its also a way to avoid giving him gold if he manages to take you down with his death passive.

JJI744Apr 21, 20173 votes

You should always try to capatilize off misplays, but "hope your opponent is terrible" is not good advice for how to play against a champion. And a Karthus has to be beyond bad to actually run themselves oom with Q spam.

NuparuApr 20, 20172 votes

Kassadin probably plays the farm game just as well and ends up oneshotting Karthus later + the presence of Hexdrinker/Edge of Night/Abyssal Scepter/Mercurial Scimitar means he has a bad time trying to even get damage off late game

Automated RivenApr 20, 20175 votes

idk man. late game karthus is still late game karthus. he does a shit ton of damage later in the game.

PartybringerApr 20, 20177 votes

Graves jg

Mister SupportApr 20, 20176 votes

^ I really want to know this one, too :)

KilanostApr 20, 20175 votes

Ivern

DarkfireAMApr 20, 201735 votes

Defeat cancer WITH cancer.

dunder killApr 20, 20174 votes

Graves isnt even that bad. Good warding does wonders. He doesnt have much range and his gap closer is very short

Twinity FerceApr 21, 20174 votes

Khazix Nom XinZhao Stabby stabby Rengar Your jungle? My jungle. Shaco Your jungle? My jungle v2.0 LeeSin Your jungle? My jungle v3.0 MasterYi Your jungle? My jungle v4.0 Nocturne Readying nightmares of cigars breaking in two Pantheon Your jungle? My jungle v5.0 Trundle Your jungle? My jungle v6.0 Your jungle? My jungle v7.0 MonkeyKing I farm you, not your jungle

AeszarckApr 20, 20177 votes

Nasus I have issues with poking him then drawing minion aggro, which pushes the wave. I get ganked often when I play against Nasus because the wave is pushed a lot and he does a good job of slowing me down. I do ward against junglers, but Nasus just gets free farm while I am warding. Even when I kill Nasus, I find he often manages to become a monster to kill anyways, and I can barely harass him without getting seriously hurt. I can't defend my tower against him well enough, and if I roam, he will definitely get the tower for free, as well as lots of farm. I have less of a problem against him in teamfights. Generally there is someone else on my team who is fed who magically manages to destroy Nasus even though I can barely even dent him. (If there isn't, then Nasus carries the game.) My top lane pool is: Elise Galio Garen Irelia Jayce Karthus Kayle Lissandra MasterYi Nunu Quinn Riven Rumble Ryze Shyvana Urgot Warwick If you believe any of these Champions counter Nasus, please tell me. Edit: I think my Champion pool is barely large enough to manage already, so I won't be buying any new Champions to counter Nasus. I need to do with what I have so that I can keep up in my abilities with all my Champions.

Basically, I want counter tips, counterpicks, and if you really want to make me happy, counterpick-specific tips.

Bonus: Tips and counterpicks against too? I hate Tryndamere with a passion.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 21, 20173 votes

i have played vs nasus alot ... i play alot of maokai top... and i just make sure i have cdr runes... and just beat him to hell in laning phase... you sustain as well as he does with mao's passive and you have a lot of damage and can really hurt him... issue is you will draw alot of attention from his jungler . just be prepared... i just dominated one a game a go on on of my accounts... his jungler had 6 ganks in 10 mins... still out damage him... out damage every one in the game.

i like nunu vs tryn lol get E him to death and heal his damage with Q , i have also played lissandra into him and done well.. the key is managing your mana and having your ult ready for all ins... if you ult him after he has ulted by the time your ult is over his ult is done as well and you can follow up with E W Q for the kill

6FlagsFunnelCakeApr 21, 20177 votes

Just want to say, I love this, a neat way to make the community collaborate on how to deal with certain Champs without the usual 5 paragraph rant.

Also, three requests MasterYi Jax and Tryndamere

Very Hard EngageApr 20, 20173 votes

Veigar

Starcraft243verApr 20, 201710 votes

You either :

Take a champion outranging him :
Buy some MR early :

And he can't kill you for 25min. Just win the game before get gets 1200 ap. Any tanky build will fuck him.

PartybringerApr 20, 201714 votes

AD Lux with item 3156 is my favorite way to play mid

Starcraft243verApr 20, 20178 votes

Well a full AD/MR lux would shit on veigar tbh.

KilanostApr 20, 201722 votes

Kassadin

Sraeg2013Apr 20, 20172 votes

Yasuo

I like to watch the world (and Boards) burn.

"Duh Fartwall OP" "Infnteh dashezzz" "noeh culldawns" "daburu critto" "why is his hair so beautiful?"

NuparuApr 20, 20176 votes

Darius just autos him to death.

Riven can beat him but it's a high skill matchup but at high skills it's about 65-35 Riven favored.

Annie has two sources of CC+damage that can't be windwalled.

Orianna tends to seem to do well into him from what I've seen; I attribute it to her autos hitting hilariously hard early allowing her, with good ball placement and aa usage, to completely zone him from the wave.

NiyumiApr 20, 20172 votes

A GOOD Riven

Any ADC with lifesteal (short of just CCing them to death)

MasterYi (Again, short of CCing him until he dies)

Akali