Boards›Gameplay

Can we please give Sightstone more options like Machete has?

Mister Support··291 votes·6,963 views

The standard form of item 2049 is wonderful, a way to give a great amount of vision on the map and some hp for tankiness; However, rarely if ever do I feel a necessity to get item 2045 unless if the game lasts long enough that I have a large amount of excess gold. The extra hp and one ward does help, but it doesn't seem useful at all compared to other items, which seems off seeing as item 2049 is viewed as one of the most essential items for a support. If it were possible, would love to see a larger variety of upgrades available for item 2049 that make a support WANT to upgrade it earlier rather than when there is nothing else to buy. Here are some ideas (These act as enchantments):

  1. Ruby SIghtstone (an edit) - Builds out of item 2049 and 2 item 3801 + 200 600 gold = 2200 2000 Total Gold Enchantment +650 500 Health +100% Base Health Regen Unique Passive - Ward Refresh: Holds 4 Charges and refills 1 charge every 240 180 seconds or upon visiting the shop. Unique Active - Ghost Ward: (Same as before)

  2. Opal Sightstone - Builds out of item 2049, item 1027 and item 3114 item 1004 + 400 620 gold = 2200 2000 Total Gold Enchantment +200 Health +300 Mana (edit: this was reverted back, noticed how terribly cost inefficient this would be) +50% Base Mana Regen +10% Cooldown Reduction Unique Passive - Ward Refresh: Holds 4 Charges and refills 1 charge every 240 180 seconds or upon visiting the shop. Unique Active - Ghost Ward: (Same as before)

  3. Amethyst Sightstone - Builds out of item 2049 and item 3108 and item 1052 + 145 380 gold = 2200 2000 Total Gold Enchantment +200 Health +50 40 Ability Power +10% Cooldown Reduction Unique Passive - Ward Refresh: Holds 4 Charges and refills 1 charge every 240 180 seconds or upon visiting the shop. Unique Active - Ghost Ward: (Same as before)

ADDED ITERATION: Treat Ruby, Amethyst, Opal, Cinderhulk, Devourer, Warriors, and Magus as a class of passives called Enchantments. All champions are limited to only one Enchantment. This would completely separate Machetes and Sightstones from Junglers and supports, where if a warrior wanted to enchant Sightstone, they would lose the opportunity to enchant their jungle item.

Note: The total gold cost in comparison to the live version of item 2045 is 400 gold. It is slightly higher but it is for slightly better stats.

Again, this is just a very very rough idea for something to make upgrading sightstone more worthwhile. In no way do I see myself as a person worthy of properly balancing out or developing parts of a game. If parts of this seem OP or UP then stay so, just please do not be aggressive on this thread towards any person, role, or champion. The Reason for the upgrades being how they are is to complement the 3 different archetypes of supports. Tank = Ruby (hp and hp regen) Utility = Opal (Mana and mana regen) Mage = Amethyst (AP and CDR)

Edit: Lowered stat values, costs, and item requirements Edit 2: Added an iteration on how these enchantments would be classified as to keep junglers from upgrading them, and keep smite supports wary. Edit 3: Reduced time for wards to recharge by 1 minute.

141 Comments

Dr Poro16 votes

As MarkedOfKane said, Sightstone should not be a go-to item for all tops and jungle. It wouldn't necessarily make the map a ward fest, as the upgraded ward trinket can also create 3 wards, but it would make oracle lens the go-to trinket more than it already is.

However... Having it capped at a 1200g item is still a bit poor. It would be nicer to have it an upgrade that is 1600 or 1800g total.

Silent Pace28 votes

[deleted]

The Horned King7 votes

I like this idea. Supports have two dedicated item slots, why not make it merge to one? Wonderful!

DeusVult5 votes

He's not saying that tier 2/3 of the gold items gets a sightstone passive, he's saying that similar to how smite and jungle items work, you would need to have the tier 2 of A gold generation item in order to access sightstones

freeformline5 votes

My one objection is that not all supports actually keep their gold item for the full duration of every game, and requiring it to finish their vision item would limit those players from taking that path.

slipstreem2 votes

Which is why you tie the upgrade into the gold item(probably tier 2 gold item) because lanes will never get those support gold generating items as their passives are useless if you are actually CS'ing properly. I really like the idea of combining those.

freeformline2 votes

What would you do for the supports who do not want to spend any money on gold generation items? Should you make them finish a gold item to get their full vision item just to keep laners from building it?

Battlecast Sona1 votes

More importantly, why is the support not making a gold income item? There's... not really a reason not to do it.

Marthian3 votes

There's little reason not to grab a support gold-generation item early game. But quite often I see supports leave it at t2 (sometimes 1) so they can build other things. I never upgrade my frostfang/spellthief to t3, choosing to sell it late game when I need the slot (generally have made the item's cost back and then some.)

TheJinxedOne2 votes

still kills the active seperations.... such as relic shields.. well. shield.. cant be on a sightstone

Davy Crockett2 votes

So what if you wanna upgrade a sightstone but you want to use item 3069's Active? meaning buy both?

Powder Toastable2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Pace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1yEmIAqd,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-05-17T22:09:47.066+0000)

Make it require the support gold income item then.(Tier 2 - Frostfang, Targons etc)

i like this idea. and I also like this topic. I agree and am down to the idea of placing this into PBA.

MarkedOfKane15 votes

I find the biggest problem with adding Sightstone options is because they dont want the item to become too good.

If all laners could build a sightstone, the whole map would be revealed. That is probably why the item is only health. That being said, here is what I think the types could be. I dont think stats should really change though.

Ruby Sightstone = More HP, maybe a tiny bit of armor

Emerald Sightstone = Wards deal a true damage poison effect upon being hit(varies on level)(Maybe it just reflects back damage like a thornmail)

Diamond Sightstone = Can have maximum 4 wards instead of 3

I feel that if they were to add different kinds, it should actually just give the wards an effect instead of actually touching stats.

WillHealForHonor2 votes

diamond sightstone OP

Red Frostraven1 votes

Hah! Just wait 'til you see the Challenger Sightstone :D

Silents4293 votes

While yes we can't overbuff them, did you really suggest "to much vision" was either possible or a bad thing?

FirstSergeantBim6 votes

That thing is never going to be "too good" anytime soon. It is already completely outclassed by the yellow trinket upgrade where, get this: THE WHOLE MAP CAN BE REVEALED. Yes, you can keep 3/3 plus 1/1 wards up with your yellow trinket upgrade and a pink ward for 350g (wards regenerate in the field as well). Do you really need those sweepers in SoloQ? No, I don't think you do because there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sight-stone is so expensive not just because it's terribly cost inefficient, but because it's slot-inefficient as well.

qetzel8 votes

Riot specifically don't want to shoehorn support builds. Making these upgrades good enough that you would want to buy them before the end of the game would practically force you to buy them early. I mean, supports already have to build a gold item and Sightstone. On a limited income there isn't much room for variety anyway, this would only push that back further.

That is why Ruby Sightstone is so bad.

Silents4293 votes

I want you to re-read what you said, Think for a moment, and then understand how stupid you sounded.

FirstSergeantBim8 votes

Then you should re-read what he said and think for a moment about how stupid you are.

There is no argument against his point, he is literally telling you why Ruby Sightstone is so bad and it is bad because Riot doesn't want it to be good. In fact, they even gave everyone an alternative to the Sightstone that is better in almost EVERY SINGLE WAY. The only reason Sightstone is still chosen is because it is convenient to buy it on your first back so one person can throw down shit-loads of wards all at once with little to no penalty for placing a ward in a bad spot. If everyone in the match took vision seriously, supports wouldn't need to spend money on a Sightstone.

Silents4293 votes

You must not have read it either.

"Making these upgrades good enough that you would want to buy them before the end of the game would practically force you to buy them early."

Yeah you know that's a bad thing. Let's not make the items good where people will buy them and make use for them. Completely smart guy right here. Let's instead keep it how it is, buying the item 2045 just because you have nothing else to buy. Yeah so much better.

Oh oh wait this gem

"I mean, supports already have to build a gold item and Sightstone. On a limited income there isn't much room for variety anyway, this would only push that back further."

Yeah so adding more variety in an easier and useful fashion would = less variety! God forbid supports build support items easier right?

God damn.

Veioh2 votes

{quoted}

You must not have read it either.

Yeah you know that's a bad thing. Let's not make the items good where people will buy them and make use for them. Completely smart guy right here. Let's instead keep it how it is, buying the item 2045 just because you have nothing else to buy. Yeah so much better.

Oh oh wait this gem

Yeah so adding more variety in an easier and useful fashion would = less variety! God forbid supports build support items easier right?

God damn.

the salt should be toned down bro. Just a conversation.

Silents4292 votes

The difference between me and the guy that replied to me is I said what the guy said was dumb, while the guy who replied to me said I was stupid.

One of these was an salty, and it wasn't from me because I decided to act snarky in response.

Occams Raiser8 votes

I feel like this is the 4th time I have seen a post like this. How many times am I going to have to upvote this before someone at Riot hears our plea?

SteveKareha6 votes

I do like the idea, but maybe upgrades should not give out raw stats, because that could create a problem in Junglers like LeeSin

Personally, I build Sightstone when I go jungle with any champion, right after completing my jungle item, because seriously, junglers benefit from Sightsone the most because they're able to roam the map more freely than other roles.

But the most important thing is that the upgrades arent "too good" so laners and other roles don't pick it over item 3361

My suggestions are based on VISION UTILITY:

a) An upgrade that allows the placement of an extra ward. b) An upgrade that gives wards 1 extra health. c) An upgrade that gives a massive decaying movespeed boost when attacking/clearing a ward. d) An upgrade that allows the placement of three Mandrake Wards (If they even make it to live, or maybe they'll make a Mandrake Trinket) e) An upgrade that increases range/duration of placed wards.

Either way they should upgrade it...

IAmStange4 votes

I feel that something like this won't grant too much extra power so that other champions other than supports will take item 2049 . Here are a few more ideas:

  1. Placing a item 2044 directly on top of an existing ward upgrades the ward to a item 2043
  2. Recharges item 2044 over time and/or on enemy ward kill
  3. Increased item 2044 placement range

I particularly like the extra hp and extra ward slot ideas you had!

Mob Psycho 1006 votes

One should have an aura that reduces enemy healing that're near them. It'd be a really nice item to build since the only grievous wound item is morello.

HotPotatoSoup4 votes

Perhaps one of the upgrades could allow the player to have more than one pink ward on the map at a time.

Lysdexic14 votes

Riot has already stated they do not want to do this (at least in the near future), because it will become a forced pick for all supports. It will foster negative flaming if the support heaven forbid try to buy an item out of order, even if it does increase their damage, tankiness, or enagement speed. They will have an even worse time bottom lane than they did before, and it's only if they can find a way to do this without anyone complaining at their supports that they will implement it.

Marthian1 votes

SS was already this. Then suddenly Yellow Trinket upgrade became straight up better. And it would be way worse if they just nerfed that and didn't buff or give SS options.

Lysdexic11 votes

{quoted}

SS was already this. Then suddenly Yellow Trinket upgrade became straight up better. And it would be way worse if they just nerfed that and didn't buff or give SS options.

However, SS only costed 800g, most times the supports could get it on their first back and still have leftover gold. It didnt delay their build very long. But the fact that supports were ALREADY forced to build SS just kind of proved my point.

Marthian1 votes

800g is still a lot early game, especially if a early back occurs. It also delays upgrading your gold-generation item.

Partholonian1 votes

Depending on how the lane is going, I'm usually choosing between item 2049 item 3341 and item 1001 item 3097 (or whichever support item I started, keeping item 3340 in that case). Unless I'm forced to back really early.

Whichever way I didn't go is probably a priority for second back.

The Horned King3 votes

This! Also, I would love to see Sightstone get another tier of item level options. Even with the Ruby Sightstone option, it's not a very exciting terminal item when late game runs long enough that I'm final build as support.

Shield Villain3 votes

So one of the problems I keep seeing is that they don't want other laners to take the item if it's too good. Mainly champions like LeeSin who already get it. So why don't we give it the machete treatment?

Need to take summoner 3 To upgrade it? And you can only take either summoner 11 orsummoner 3 ? Doesn't that sound like a simple solution?

IcyPepper4 votes

Er, I have one problem with that:

It enforces a certain meta and forces supports to take a certain spell (alongside the support item, and sightstone). Now, I know exhaust is the most common spell for a reason, but it's not as required as smite is on a jungle. Some supports take ignite (adc's really... shouldn't, and ignite is best on supports who can get in close like Leona) and some might take other spells depending on whatever strategy they're going for.

It's like having a mid item only available if you have ignite, or something like that. Sure, it's common enough that it could work, but unlike junglers and smite laners should have options (barrier, exhaust for mid, etc) and that includes supports.

Need Gold 4 Tent4 votes

But sometimes I want to take ignite?

  1. If my support has enough CC to cover the lack of exhaust.
  2. For an offensive burst lane to counter the enemy ADC's heal
  3. Against a Mundo if for some weird reason none of the laners take it.

There are reasons to not take exhaust sometimes

Mister Support3 votes

It is because of the yellow trinket upgrade that I MOST want sightstone upgrades. Specifically in the aspect of wards recharging with time, similar to the yellow trinket, just slightly longer. It will encourage the support to still get sightstone and sweeper so vision control is kept, while giving good enough stats that the slot taken up is not a waste.

FistOfSharkiesha3 votes

Definitely need to be able to combine them. As support you lose 2 slots (SS and support item) and they give practically no offensive stats. No support mage can even utilize the deathcap properly because you have 3 slots for ap and 1 slots for boots. On top of this you're money starved as is. I wouldn't mind paying 600 gold for an enchantment to support items that gives nothing but the passive effect of the sightstones. Not even the hp.

Sukishoo2 votes

item 1039 +item 2049 = JUNGLE STONE POWA

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Any buffs to sightstone is a buff to LeeSin. Keep that in mind. I feel like it should give 20 armor and magic resist or something to that but idk if that is what is needed

Occams Raiser1 votes

Another dude said attach the item to Exhaust Like how you need Smite to get machete.

FirstSergeantBim3 votes

That's a terrible idea.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Why?

FirstSergeantBim2 votes

There's no reason Sightstone should have that limitation. In fact I don't think there's any good reason machete already has that limitation. All it does is make the game more complicated and inhibit possibilities.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Well machete augments Smite so why wouldn't you have that as a requirement?

Mister Support2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1yEmIAqd,comment-id=000800000000000000010002,timestamp=2015-05-18T20:40:01.993+0000)

Well machete augments Smite so why wouldn't you have that as a requirement?

Because all junglers run smite as part of the role, not just item requirement. While Supports will also take spells like ignite, heal, or barrier rather than exhaust.

FirstSergeantBim3 votes

Not true in the slightest. Lee can already buy a yellow trinket upgrade for 250g and have all the wards he'll ever need. At this point Sightstone is extremely inefficient on him because that upgrade currently exists.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Mister Support

Comment with a champion, and see if someone will respond with how to deal with them!
Gameplay595 comments
113
votes
Riot, if you're going to make Ryze a machine gun mage balanced around skillshots...
Gameplay71 comments
95
votes
Can we stop having teams matched with players entire elo tiers apart?
Gameplay68 comments
79
votes
We shouldn't just revert Rengar
Gameplay38 comments
71
votes
Kalista Auto-Attacking through hard CC
Gameplay29 comments
68
votes
1 Reason why Soraka provides the best peels for her team
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous19 comments
68
votes