Now every team comp see is based around the adc pick. I remember back in season 5 I saw team comps built around a 
top lane. They gave a lot of speed to cover his kiting weakness so he can steamroll entire teams. We no longer see these types of comps. We also don't see comps built around dps mages like 
Critmaster Garen7 votesNow every team comp see is based around the adc pick. I remember back in season 5 I saw team comps built around a
every time adc are not on top of the food chain when it comes to carries, we get the "lol adc2k17" spam and adc nonstop complaining how theyre useless.
have you not played the game, when bot lane ziggs was merely viable and not even outclassing adc?
or at the end of season 5 when literally any type of carry from marksmen to certain mages, to assassins, to skirmishers to juggernauts could take over and carry a game?
apparantly marksmen were fucking worthless back then according to many adc mains. thats why we never get anywhere with this game. they usually flip their shit when theyre not the only carries you can play. look at what happens when yasuo is merely viable, or a darius carries a game for once.
Zero Skill Tank5 voteshave you not played the game, when bot lane ziggs was merely viable and not even outclassing adc?
Lol.
Critmaster Garen4 votesLol.
he wasnt. his winrate and playrate werent even touching the ones of the top adc. he was barely above 50%.
he wasnt exceptionally strong in lane either, like 
was just after his rework, or how 
used to be who just straight up shut down the opposing adc.
he was simply viable next to marksmen due to his gimmick on his w. this was all there was to it. he was a viable bot lane pick. very popular due to how unusual he was, but not out of the ordinary in srength.
Lauchmelder2 votesWell he was outclassing bronze botlanes who stood in their own wave for the whole game.
9Wly9oMl026 votesDidn't he get professional play? Hardly bronze. Not saying he was OP, but when you make stupid arguments, it really hurts the credibility of your defense.
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=Lace Up,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHE6Ac7y,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-10T15:01:31.282+0000)
Didn't he get professional play? Hardly bronze. Not saying he was OP, but when you make stupid arguments, it really hurts the credibility of your defense.
someone made it into challenger by playing bot lane ziggs 1 trick. thats what started the entire thing.
even if he DID get professional play, this still isnt an indicator that he was too strong. viable. thats all there was.
9Wly9oMl021 votesAnd again, professional players don't typically pick things that are simply "viable". They tend to pick the strongest picks they can so they can win. Which is why diversity sucks in pro play. They play the 2-3 champs that are the strongest in the role at that time.
Regardless, I wasn't even saying Ziggs was OP or not. I honestly think he was in 1 of my games (and the idiot actually built him AD). Point being he was hardly only outclassing ADCs in bronze only, like the guy I replied to said.
Lauchmelder2 votesWay to bring up an idiotic counterargument.
He saw professional play because he was viable, not because he was outclassing ADCs. Obviously sheep will downvote me and upvote you here.
9Wly9oMl021 votesProfessional players don't play something because they're "viable". Professional players play the best picks they can at the position, for obvious reasons. It's the reason you don't see much diversity in the pro play scene. If Ziggs was simply "viable" at ADC, he wouldn't have gotten played over the 2-3 champs that were outclassing others at the time.
Just because YOU don't understand something, doesn't mean it is the thing that's idiotic ;)
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lace Up,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHE6Ac7y,comment-id=000300000001000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-11T13:21:58.858+0000)
Professional players don't play something because they're "viable". Professional players play the best picks they can at the position, for obvious reasons. It's the reason you don't see much diversity in the pro play scene. If Ziggs was simply "viable" at ADC, he wouldn't have gotten played over the 2-3 champs that were outclassing others at the time.
Just because YOU don't understand something, doesn't mean it is the thing that's idiotic ;)
ziggs wasnt the "best" carry for that position because he beat adc.
he was viable in bot lane because he beat turrets. it had absolutely shit to do with beating marksmen in lane, and everything with his ability to blow up turrets from 35% health.
at the time the pick was popular, turret first blood almost guaranteed snowballing and winning the game between 12 and 15 minutes at higher ratings.
it wasnt ziggs who beat adc in lane or ziggs being too strong. it was turret first blood being fucking broken and he was the mage who could capitalize on it the most, which made him just as effective as a bot lane pick as adc, who are also strong siege champions.
9Wly9oMl021 votesBut if you can't beat the marksmen, then how do you attack the tower...things that make you go hmmm
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lace Up,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHE6Ac7y,comment-id=00030000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-11T22:57:04.688+0000)
But if you can't beat the marksmen, then how do you attack the tower...things that make you go hmmm
you just poke at it?
literally all he has to do is push a wave in with his support, and throw an auto attack empowered by his passive at it.
he doesnt need to beat the marksman. just sneak single hits on the turret.
plus, it was a meta of 5 man gangbangs. so basically you didnt even need to do all that on your own, when your team just 5v2's the enemy bot lane and pushes them out for you to kill the turret.
still doesnt have to do shit with the strength of marksmen overall. put ANY lane under that kind of pressure and its going to lose.
ziggs just turned a jungle gank forced recall of the enemy duo into a secured turret.
Big Lincoln5 votes5% pick rate at his peak
damn he single handedly invalidated marksmen
ZT Xperimentor4 votesProbably because riot keeps making them the most powerful class. Love to go back to the days when they weren't such a focus.
AfterTheFall2 votes[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHE6Ac7y,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-10T15:06:29.975+0000)
Probably because riot keeps making them the most powerful class. Love to go back to the days when they weren't such a focus.
Asc's have always been the focus. Theyre the cornerstone of every team. The deal the most consistent damage in fights. The need peel and protection to do their job right.
ZT Xperimentor3 votesThey haven't needed protection since preseason six.
PhDs Nuts1 votes[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHE6Ac7y,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-07-10T16:39:23.699+0000)
They haven't needed protection since preseason six.
That's an expensive build =P
ZT Xperimentor3 votesAlso impossible unless you're cheating. But that's not the point, they have an abundance of options to ensure their own survival.
Zero Skill Tank3 votesBotlane marksman are the only category of champions that basically require teamwork to function - every game they get a teammate pretty much dedicated to enabling them.
Darius or Cassio as a main carry to build team around would be fine, if they weren't at the same time super strong in 1v1 situation like they are now.
Critmaster Garen4 votesBotlane marksman are the only category of champions that basically require teamwork to function
bullshit. what about supports? what about junglers?
and other carries need their team to function aswell. juggernauts have shit for engage. if they dont have a support or a tank that enables them to get clsoe to the enemy team theyre getting kited and destroyed while trying to walk at them.
every game they get a teammate pretty much dedicated to enabling them.
just because they get one, doesnt mean they always need one. it jsut makes them even stronger.
youre telling me champions like 
cant enable themselves? they have enough mobility, utility and self peel to be able to come out on top of a lot of 1v1 situations or reliably disengage those they cant handle themselves.
Darius or Cassio as a main carry to build team around would be fine, if they weren't at the same time super strong in 1v1 situation like they are now.
and here im gonna refer to all the marksmen who are capable of duelling aswell. this is just a couple of examples. there are other marksmen that can reliably solo lane.
Zero Skill Tank2 votesjuggernauts have shit for engage. if they dont have a support or a tank that enables them to get clsoe to the enemy team theyre getting kited and destroyed while trying to walk at them.
See, this is when you fail to see the point. Juggernauts are supposed to be weak at team confrontation, they are strong at applying humongous pressure at side lane. They don't need buddies to do that - they need to be enabled only to overcome their weakness.
Marksman, on the other hand, need to be enabled even to do what they are supposed to be good at. Cait is supposed to be siege marksman, but she can't siege for shit if she doesn't have someone holding her hand - if she has no peeler around, every mage is a better sieger. Marksman, on their own, has no strong points.
Critmaster Garen5 votesSee, this is when you fail to see the point. Juggernauts are supposed to be weak at team confrontation, they are strong at applying humongous pressure at side lane. They don't need buddies to do that - they need to be enabled only to overcome their weakness.
juggernauts are not all supposed to be splitpushers and weak at team confrontations.
is literally designed to carry teamfights as a massive aoe threat and get between as many enemy champions as possible to heal more, to spread his bleed, and to get chain dunks off.
has similar mechanics with her ult getting stronger for every enemy champion nearby, and healing more off multiple people getting hit by her tentacles.
job in teamfights is to get on top of the largest carry threat on the enemy team and take him out. he doesnt get to do that when hes busy split pushing sidelanes where the villain is just going to avoid him.
and thats just some juggernauts for carries. i didnt even touch other carry classes yet or support type champions who ENTIRELY rely on their team and on teamplay.
Marksman, on the other hand, need to be enabled even to do what they are supposed to be good at. Cait is supposed to be siege marksman, but she can't siege for shit if she doesn't have someone holding her hand. Marksman, on their own, has no strong points.
like again. there are enough marksmen that are incredibly self reliant and scale into 1v1 monsters., youre generalizing. its only a few marksmen who actually need a babysitter. a lot of them are designed with self peel mechanics and utility to be able to either disengage unfavourable fights, or just straight up 1v1 their opponents.
EndlessSorcerer3 votesHonestly, I miss some of those compositions.
They could be hilariously terrifying when used correctly (even if they needed a little coordination to set-up).
For example:
B00B001 votesADC's have always been the ''cornerstone'' they are the most consistent reliable DPS to win fight and push objectives, the only reason they fail often in soloQ is because they don't reach the level of protection needed to succeed and deal that DPS consistently. which is why ADC's and Supports a like prefer to duo.
any ADC (marksman) can push faster than almost any mage or melee.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesADCs provide the highest and most consistent damage during a team fight, it's not like other roles that have to play around their cool downs, even back in season 5 when top lane was filled with carry heavy champions ADCs were still the gemstone of the team.
AmetDeCrypt1 votes"cornerstone" is a silly word. I build myself around my team, not the other way around.
Colonel J1 votesADCs can do the most damage over long periods of time.
fuffychan1 votesSo you make dozens of threads crying about ADCs and now youre saying theyre not important. lmfao
Well no sh-- dude, now go build your ADCless team and stop crying.
lilpokfluf1 votesEvery season the general population is improving somewhat and they learn to play relatively safer making objective control important. Riot hasn't or won't I dunno which change this so marksmen continue to be important.
At least that's how I see it
PhDs Nuts1 votesADCs are by far the role most dependent on their team to stay alive and do their job, and are capable to doing the most DPS, so it's more useful to make picks that will help them out. Junglers require teamwork, but they can still show up to gank any lane regardless of who is in it. A top laner can at least split push if they can't teamfight. Mid lane will typically always be a damage threat due to long ability range and more mobility/pick potential. An ADC with a team that has no peel is generally not going to be able to do their job against a team that has any form of dive.
bloodybadger11 votesbecause the adcs are like the backline general in a way. imagine a normal and conventional teamfight. the top laner has a duty to either dive the enemy if they are a fighter/assassin or tank if they aren't. occassionally they should peel. junglers are typically the same. they typically HAVE to focus either the mid lane carry or the adc. the mid laner tries to burst people who are not tanky or dps if they are a hyper carry. the support is generally tasked with peel/initiation. now, what is the adc's job? This is where things get a little less clear. adcs are tasked with doing DAMAGE. they do not NEED to focus any one person (typically) to do their job. they can hit the tanks if they want or just hit the tanks while waiting for enemy cooldowns. OR if the cooldowns are used they can ignore the tank and start hitting more important targets. Its this flexibility combined with heavy dps late game damage that allows them to masquerade as the teamfight general although they typically do not initiate the fights. they are the general in my opinion because they get to choose, more or less, how they wanna play the teamfight whereas the other roles are pigeonholed (loosely) into certain tasks that require a specific target.
