It's been asked before.. So I'll ask it yet again..

Yosuke Apperu·May 26, 2015·54 votes·2,203 views

Why does shen not get scaling mr? He's both melee.. and a tank. Now just talking base stats.. Why is this .. tankier than this?

23 Comments

lB2kGRlc8yMay 26, 20154 votes

I know why he didn't have it in the first place, but why he still doesn't is probably something dredged up from the hellish idea cloud they pulled the Veigar and Cass rework out of.

KarcistMay 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I know why he didn't have it in the first place, but why he still doesn't is probably something dredged up from the hellish idea cloud they pulled the Veigar and Cass rework out of.

and Zilean

SpecterVonBarenMay 27, 20151 votes

Eh. At least the Zilean rework seemed to be done with good intentions, just... mixed results. The Cass and Veigar changes on the other hand....

Hard4HamstersMay 26, 20153 votes

I'm wondering if they are just waiting on him to receive a rework before they try and implement mr/lvl on shen. I think it's a long time coming. Older tanks weren't always given mr/lvl because it was thought that they would be buying a lot of Health and Resistances. And Force of Nature was a thing. But nowadays, I'm thinking they should just normalize it to ALL melee champs get mr/lvl. There are balance problems with that right now (particularly because Maokai is so dominant), but Season 6 I think should be the time that it is normalized and champions affected are balanced out around this change (Kassadin is another problem).

This is just my opinion and it is based mostly on the idea of consistency. I went for so long in this game not knowing that Maokai didn't have MR/lvl because I assumed that all melee champions had Mr/lvl, while ranged champioins did not. I think it makes the game a little bit simpler for newer players as they will know off the bat that if they have a melee champion or if they are facing a melee champion, they will have MR/lvl. It's not much of a factor after you've played the game for a long enough time, as you simply have the champions that don't have scaling mr memorized.

Right now the only melee champions that do not receive MR/lvl are: Maokai Poppy Singed Shen Kassadin Yasuo Kayle (?) Some of these champions are in a fine spot right now and would probably need to be nerfed as compensation for the added resistance, but others could really use it to become a more powerful pick. Poppy is in the midst of a rework, so she will probably be given mr/lvl soon. Kayle is weird and I don't know how to label her. She CAN have ranged attack all of the time with some CDR, but she is technically a melee champion, no? Anyway, that is my piece. It is my dream that scaling Mr will go to everyone who is melee. Hope you have fun in future games. Peace.

Remlap1223May 26, 20156 votes

I can explain why on most of these. (not condoning the lack of MR, every melee champ should have scaling MR)

Kassadin passive % MR reduction. Kass is the only melee champion I'd be comfortable without MR per level because of his Q and passive

Kayle Despite being melee, E's on a low enough cooldown that she's basically ranged. Build a little CDR, and she can keep in on indefinitely. (did someone say permabuff? Nunu )

Maokai his ultimate gives him defense.

Poppy passive gives damage reduction

Shen No clue. Was a knee jerk nerf by Riot to get him out of viability.

Singed His ultimate gives him a ton of MR. Ultimate Level 3 power spike could be removed for scaling MR per level.

Yasuo His flow shield. Flow generation could take a greater hit early levels for scaling MR.

masterdragon481May 26, 20152 votes

Lets not forget that usually magic damage is burst damage meaning that if you don't kill your target in your rotation, you have some problems.

With that in mind, Maokai's passive that heals him after a certain number of spell casts also needs to be taken into account; if he doesn't get 100-0, he is going to sustain through that damage. Giving him mr/lvl just makes it even harder for a mage to do anything to him.

Everyone else I agree with your reasoning and don't really want to see scaling mr on any of them.

I think the reason Shen doesn't have mr/level is his incredibly spammable shield and the sustain he receives through his Q (which results in MORE sustain the more health he builds, further countering mages).

Remlap1223May 26, 20151 votes

You see, it should be kept for consistency though. Like I said, without the exceptions of Kassadin and Kayle, all melee champs SHOULD get MR per level. Maokai has to get really in your face in order to do damage, and his ultimate could be adjusted easily to account for MR per level. Poopy's getting relaunched, so Riot's got that under control (I hope). Shen's sheild is heavily required on energy, is scaled last (usually) and scales with AP, which you don't build on him. There really isn't a reason for Shen not to have scaling MR per level. Singed, like I said, could have his ultimate adjusted to account for scaling MR, and so can Yasuo's passive.

I mean, they gave scaling MR to Galio, arguably the one who benefits from MR the most out of all champions in League, so why couldn't they give it to Shen? I know Galio got it from Grail nerfs, but the point still stands that that buffed his passive level scalings immensely, meaning he gets power without having to buy it (I'd say that was a huge buff to Galio rather than just rebalancing him.)

Hard4HamstersMay 26, 20151 votes

Yeah I know about why all of the champions don't have MR/lvl. It was because of balance issues with giving them that on top of their other damage reduction or effective range in the case of Kayle.

Also Shen never had mr/lvl. The only ones who has ever had mr/lvl removed have been Kassadin when they changed his passive, and Kayle when in Season 3, they reverted the .75mr/lvl she received (I could only think that this was ~half of what melee champions received as she is half melee). In Singed's case, he had 35 MR originally but it did not scale. It was still flat, but they brought it down to 30 to make it more consistent with other champions.

CaelerMay 27, 20151 votes

Maokai also compensates for the lack of scaling MR with an extremely high base armor and armor per level.

kile147May 27, 20151 votes

Shen doesn't get MR/lvl because he has a shield and a heal to negate the magic poke, so they fear that giving him that too would make poking him completely pointless. Not saying I agree with that but I believe that was the reasoning behind it.

Slamurai JackMay 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His flow shield. Flow generation could take a greater hit early levels for scaling MR.

All this does is make him even weaker against AD lanes, which is already his weakness. No nerferino Yasuo plz.

Yosuke ApperuMay 27, 20152 votes

So why so much hate on shen riot? I see volibears and reksais build full tank and still destroy either due to executes based on their max health or true damage executes... On a side note, if anyone has any builds for shen aside from getting as tanky as possible, let me know? I used to be able to builld tank and taunt in hitting people for a great initiate.. now if they have crit.. i get hit for like 500-700 on one auto. Taunting literally ends up killing you with shen now.

badoogaMay 27, 20151 votes

If they really do 500-700 damage on one auto... buy item 3075 along with item 3143 or even item 3512 or item 3056 (they actually work well on Shen : they give him armor (the latter gives health too) and a fair boost to his splitpushing or tower diving ability, which he definitely benefits from). Other than that, good damage items on Shen are item 3078 , item 3153 , item 3071 and possibly item 3050 (although this is more of a tank item). Build order is generally up to you as your playstyle, your matchup in lane or what your team requires is different each game.

58738074DEL1May 26, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Yosuke ApperuMay 27, 20152 votes

That nerf? To what? Why could you possibly want shen to get nerfed? The only thing he has that scales with what he builds is health..

TransgressorMay 27, 20151 votes

Shen doesn't need a nerf, he needs a rework. He's not op, his kit is just ancient and binary. Just like Nunu's, they do one thing and they do it REALLY well, to the point they are viable only by being toxic to play against. If he gets meddled with, he'll become shit tier.

IcyPepperMay 26, 20151 votes

I believe that some squishies get slightly, negligible higher base defense stats than tanks because they typically aren't expect to build it. Some tanks get a little more attack damage for the same reason.

But that's all I heard.

Anyway, it definitely does not make sense that Shen doesn't have scaling MR in the first place. He's melee, most melee (but not all!) get scaling MR. That's part of their compensation for the range. You don't see adc's with scaling MR (at least, I don't believe any do. Graves with his passive might be the exception, I suppose).

Shen does indeed deserve MR. He's a ninja, for crying out loud.

Remlap1223May 26, 20151 votes

It was a knee jerk nerf a while back to both Shen and Singed because of their tank abilities. Of course, by doing this, they're both made inferior to every other melee champion, despite Singed's ultimate granting him the MR. I mean, why can't they hit 100 MR after they build two MR items? That's just stupid.

Yosuke ApperuMay 29, 20151 votes

I'm happy with just having the small buffs he has on the pbe atm.. THEY'RE GIVING HIM SCALING MR ki strike cooldown lowered at later levels, and taunt energy lowered at later levels! :D

HaZreTiMay 27, 20151 votes

Hahahaha... Lolll!!! Nice bro Nice 1 I like :D and your deffinitly right about that and the only answear comes out to my head for this is that Since because Akali is a HOE ( female ) and shen a male.. LOL!!!!

Ariel the CruelMay 27, 20151 votes

I'll start with the base stats question. If you look through the all the champ base stats, you'll actually find that to be a common trend. Champs that are expected to build tanky generally have higher offensive base stats, while champs that build damage generally have higher defensive base stats. This is intended to balance out early game, since the opposite would just result in the "immovable object VS unstoppable force" scenario. Note that common is not the same as always. Some champs do defy this trend (mostly supports I believe).

As for Shen getting MR per level. I actually had a brief discussion on this not to long ago. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/k4VL2nN2-shen-could-really-use-a-rework-riot?comment=000500000000

But basically, Riots stated reason for not giving it to him is his spamable shield and high sustain.