Am I the only other person who finds champions that are pick or ban to be in an unhealthy state?

Yosuke Apperu··76 votes·2,741 views

Anyone else agree?

Edit: Okay so now I'm going to add a bit of substance to my previous post as was requested by some of you.

Xin Zhao for example in my opinion is pick or ban. Basically if you don't pick or ban them, the enemy team gets them.. and you'd rather them not have that power in their hands. He has an insanely strong jungle clear due to even more sustain from his recent but un needed buff. Devourer in general is incredibly cost efficient and it promotes in my opinion once again an unhealthy play style of not helping your laners.. or if the game hits 20 minutes and you reach sated from power farming you can pull off unbelievable things like 1v3 because you have sated devourer and rageblade on xin zhao. I feel as though he just scales too darn well with attack speed now due to having his third strike crit and every other auto he heals. Another example I'll give, Tahm kench... even though he was recently nerfed I'm still seeing him banned relatively frequently.. as another summoner on the boards posted calling him "such an asstastic champion" I believe that's close that people still dont want him in their games and for good reason. What I see currently happening with balance as someone else had mentioned in this thread I believe that champions skill floors are getting lower allowing more people to take advantage of their strengths for example while someone playing a champ with a match higher skill floor stands no chance against him due to his now assassin like damage. I've also been reading about a kogmaw that builds tanky rage blade and that also sounds rather ridiculous. For awhile jax was pick or ban but it seems like people just aren't playing him as much anymore. I'll be happy to answer to anymore feed back, thanks guys =]

46 Comments

Doctor Horse21 votes

Unhealthy as in if you don't pick them you lose. The reward for playing the characters you're skilled with is gradually getting lower and the skill floor for the "pick or ban" status is also getting lower while the reward is a free win essentially. Feels bad man.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Yosuke Apperu7 votes

[{quoted}](name=SR King Mooglet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPHxIPe0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-19T20:16:54.923+0000)

Unhealthy as in if you don't pick them you lose. The reward for playing the characters you're skilled with is gradually getting lower and the skill floor for the "pick or ban" status is also getting lower while the reward is a free win essentially. Feels bad man.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

But any thread people make about how a champion is too strong just gets downvoted to hell.

Doctor Horse10 votes

Yeah, people are quick to jump on the "git gud" bandwagon every time a complaint rises, valid or just generic QQ. Riot has been making balance decisions and refusing to address the unintended consequences for years and every time it's hindered them from reaching their design goals.

Eevee In A Jar8 votes

That's because a lot of the times when people complain on the forums, it usually is pretty stupid. I mean how much longer do you want to hear about how the amount of damage Nidalee spears does is ridiculous at max range and how Cho's rupture is OP.

This one though has a decent point. It certainly is like that now more than ever. But the Elder Lizard jungling era wasn't exactly in balance either. I think that was the golden age season though.

Doctor Horse1 votes

{quoted}

That's because a lot of the times when people complain on the forums, it usually is pretty stupid. I mean how much longer do you want to hear about how the amount of damage Nidalee spears does is ridiculous at max range and how Cho's rupture is OP.

This one though has a decent point. It certainly is like that now more than ever. But the Elder Lizard jungling era wasn't exactly in balance either. I think that was the golden age season though.

The time of the spirit items was my favorite time in this game. Of course it wasn't in perfect balance, this game is too big to be in perfect balance at this point but it was fun no matter what you wanted to play because the meta didn't punish you for picking champions that aren't pick or ban status.

Yosuke Apperu4 votes

[{quoted}](name=SR King Mooglet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPHxIPe0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-19T20:16:54.923+0000)

Unhealthy as in if you don't pick them you lose. The reward for playing the characters you're skilled with is gradually getting lower and the skill floor for the "pick or ban" status is also getting lower while the reward is a free win essentially. Feels bad man.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

I was playing a game where a kogmaw wasnt even doing well but proceeded to get double kills out of nowhere. So I said "see this is why they're going to nerf kogmaw" He proceeds to say that he doesnt care because he doesnt even play kogmaw. I hate how people just jump onto playing whatever is freelo at the moment.

Doctor Horse3 votes

{quoted}

I was playing a game where a kogmaw wasnt even doing well but proceeded to get double kills out of nowhere. So I said "see this is why they're going to nerf kogmaw" He proceeds to say that he doesnt care because he doesnt even play kogmaw. I hate how people just jump onto playing whatever is freelo at the moment.

Sounds like a typical day of League.

RIP the golden age of late season 3

Yosuke Apperu3 votes

[{quoted}](name=SR King Mooglet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPHxIPe0,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-02-19T21:18:34.757+0000)

Sounds like a typical day of League.

RIP the golden age of late season 3

I miss the jungle of season 4 back with soul of the elder lizard, golem, and spectral wraith. Now i literally feel like im picking colors to buy lol

Anidan12 votes

You're on the gameplay boards... this question was kind of unnecessary. In fact, most of the "Am I the only one" questions on the League boards look a lot like pandering, if I'm to be entirely honest.

"Am I the only one who thinks [widely held belief on the boards here]?"

Answer: no. No you are not. Stop asking.

I wouldn't so terse and rude if these questions weren't so common.

PickleBabah3 votes

Off topic: Terse. That's a good word. I think I'll use that more

FortisDominus1 votes

i love you for saying this, preach

DrNova6 votes

Was there really any point to making a thread that generally sums up tons of other posts in the title, with no content or actual discussion?

Don't make garbage threads.

CrimsonReaps5 votes

Im sure almost everyone agrees

HayRoss4 votes

Darius is arguably not pick/ban anymore, but god damn is he frustrating to play against even when you counter him. If you pick someone with decent range who can just simply kite him down (Gnar or Jayce), then you win lane instantly. If you have to get within 10 feet of him, you lose lane horribly with no hope of ever coming back. He's so 1 dimensional, it's just not fun

manliestdino2 votes

He's also extremely kiteable and most are able to win short trades against him.

Slamurai Jack4 votes

Considering the only champion that could be seriously described as pick or ban right now is Udyr, no, it really isn't that big of a deal. Kog isn't pick or ban, Ezreal isn't pick or ban, and Fiora of all people definitely isn't pick or ban.

Makior723 votes

Wish we could just have more bans then it wouldnt be so bad every time riot changes or adds something that makes certain champions completely broken.

Yosuke Apperu4 votes

{quoted}

Wish we could just have more bans then it wouldnt be so bad every time riot changes or adds something that makes certain champions completely broken.

I wish sated devourer was never introduced into the a game and that rageblade never got reworked lol

Ycagel Legacy1 votes

{quoted}

I wish sated devourer was never introduced into the a game and that rageblade never got reworked lol

I though that too, ever since these items were introduced , attack speed based champions have been unhealty.

Knoyle3 votes

The last of Champions I would ban Blitzcrank DrMundo Zed Fiora Fizz ZedTahmKench Garen Graves Jax KalistaYasuo LeeSin MasterYi MissFortune Zed TahmKench Talon Tryndamere Volibear XinZhao Yasuo Zed

#6outof129bans

Some of these I don't even consider op. Some I just I hate seeing almost every other game. I'm actually glad to see shit like Yorick and Sion even if they end up carrying to our defeat because It's a nice change for once.

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

...if a champion is pick or ban, of course there's something wrong with their current state of balance. How is this even a question?

Hedgehog Hustler1 votes

I've seen Poppy in 95% of ranked games I play. Yet she's pretty healthy considering the state of the game.

Doctor Horse2 votes

Those items got introduced in Season 3 I think.

LiziLOL2 votes

there will always be a group of champions that are p/b

the cycle never ends, lets say you straight up gut fiora/gp/poppy/tahm etc.

the next most op champions will become p/b and so on

Alsek1 votes

No one likes champions being pick or ban, but they've always existed and always will. Just have to learn to work around it.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

They will, but it doesn't have to be 20 champions pick/ban, 20 champions totally useless, and the rest mediocre.

Cloud2731 votes

There's always going to be someone who's at the top. That's just the nature of the game. Right now for instance, no one will deny that Udyr is king of the jungle, but who will rise to take his place once Riot guts him?

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

{quoted}

There's always going to be someone who's at the top. That's just the nature of the game. Right now for instance, no one will deny that Udyr is king of the jungle, but who will rise to take his place once Riot guts him?

Xin zhao is pretty far up there as well as pretty much any jungler whom can build sated and rageblade

Sweetiex3 votes

{quoted}

There's always going to be someone who's at the top. That's just the nature of the game. Right now for instance, no one will deny that Udyr is king of the jungle, but who will rise to take his place once Riot guts him?

That used to be the case. Someone was on top and others close behind. Now, someone is on top of mount everest and the rest are standing on a hut 3000 meters below.

XIII Vanitas1 votes

I think that "unablanced" is the more appropriate term.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

There will ALWAYS be a pick or ban champion that's how the game works, if xin and udyr are nerfed to the ground, someone else is just gonna be their to take there throne and be OP

iainB851 votes

There will always be pick/ban champions, but right now it feels like there are more than usual and you just can't control getting some in your game with only 6 bans, yourself only having 1 of them if you are lucky, and other people intentionally not banning them so they can snag them up.

Narasimha1 votes

Champions are only unhealthy when they're_ consistently_ pick or ban. And it's not just 2 or 3 patches either. We're talking upwards of 4 or 5. A perfect example is Kassadin, who took seasons to balance.

Elindis1 votes

But right now he's like most healthy assassin...

Dengeden1 votes

No, but it seems I'm the only one who always sees some champions being pick or ban, no matter the patch or season.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

Right now, I think a lot of champions are strong and that's pretty good. Sometimes the strength means that their strengths are more obvious, aka Xin Zhao is actually decent against Teemo when played well and has been in his weakest form.

People complaining about not getting a free win by picking Fizz / Ahri / Zed and losing to Udyr / Lux / Tahm not so good.

ilt1 votes

XinZhao Fiora MasterYi Volibear DrMundo Udyr

fkem

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Yeah, I agree. But I haven't seen any P/B champions recently, especially in Solo Queue.

ModAttysu The Poro1 votes

I always use my ban on Graves. He is just NEVER fun to play against for me. He may be in a trash state (as an example, not saying he is trash rn,) but his kit frustrates me more than LB does when I'm playing Lux in lane and she raped my ass for a solid 0/15 score, that I would probably ban him anyway.

But yeah, the common bans otherwise are frustrating.

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

That is why they're pick or ban in the first place..

Darius Bøt1 votes

There are always champs I prefer not to see in game, but there's also a difference between someone who's skilled at X champ and someone who's new to the champ. In contrast though there are those champs with builds that are oppressive and I personally dislike a great deal.

zacktootall1 votes

you going to need to say a bit more what am i to agree with in other words what are you asking

Salidfingers1 votes

Yes and No

I agree someone like xin zhao didnt need a buff since i still play him as my 2nd or 3rd jungler line up with great success

But to ban or pick him/someone because you consider him OP isn't the way to go about it with any champion.

I have had many games where someone would go MUNDO, XIN, and Tahm is open in low silver telling me to pick them or they pick them for me and ask me to switch like i was going to play them.

few games ago on this account i was a jungler and a person first picked xin and assumed i was going to play him and doing me a "favor" He throw the game and i looked him up a day later he is on a 9 game losing streak with champions that people consider op like rengar, ez and xin. This is a perfect example of a tool with no concept on how to play those champions and his games.

So let people bait them selves into what they consider up, because facing me i will take full advantage of it when you fail a trade.

Silents4291 votes

Are you actually asking this as if you needed too?

Like 1 day on these boards answers this.

But no, not every champion being banned heavily is unbalanced/unhealthy

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

wait so galio is unhealthy wat

Llanite1 votes

I'm pretty sure you'll fish plenty of upvotes, due to this so-called 'community' not understanding how stuff works.

Pick rate goes with popularity, not 'healthy'. Vayne was at 50% pick rate couple months back, dropped back to 10-ish because Riot reduced her AD by 3. There was virtually zero change to her power curve, but pick rate dropped significantly. Zed was at sub-30% at the end of S5, Riot decided to cut his attack speed like 0.1 and his pick rate dropped to 10-ish.

And ban rate goes with pick rate, as the chance they hit someone is greater when 50% of people intend to pick a Vayne but could not.

It's almost too easy for Riot to manipulate the sheep, it's not even funny.

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