"Cait has 52% winrate according to champ.gg, please nerf her"

lolipopevelynn·Dec 27, 2016·10 votes·1,763 views

You know who else has 52% winrate?

do you know who has ABOVE 52% winrate? (kayle sitting at 55% winrate but who cares right?)

do you know who is sitting at 45% winrate or lower?

and I'm sure I'm missing a few other champs from this list. Can we please get our priorities straight? Cait is the LEAST of this games balance problems, seriously, and I don't even fucking like cait in the slightest. Kayle is sitting high and might on her 55% winrate and no one is even batting an eye, clearly what it takes is some person to pick her in LCS for people to wake the hell up.

21 Comments

Jinzo TorranceDec 27, 201611 votes

You left their pickrate out.

Oh wait, putting the pickrate would make you look dumb and biased, nevermind.

MarshbouyDec 27, 201610 votes

it's winrate/playrate. I'm saying this because it's going to be said incredibly often.

vOmvbrawfUDec 28, 20161 votes

What does playrate matter though? Honest question. It doesn't mean noobs are playing her, as her average games played is still decently high.

lolipopevelynnDec 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What does playrate matter though? Honest question. It doesn't mean noobs are playing her, as her average games played is still decently high.

playrate doesnt mean shit, it NEVER did because play rate is entirely meta based. They are just using it as an excuse because caits winrate is not nearly as high as others.

ive seen eve, my main, nerfed at much less play and winrate before while others get buffed at higher win and play rate. Its not a factor. Cait is simply flavor of the month right now. She was untouched for over a year and only now people complain since she is the go to adc after all the others were nerfed.

MohawkBirdDec 28, 20161 votes

It matters because you would think someone with a 35+% play rate would have a lower win-rate due tot he influx of players playing them. A lot of players won't be mains or play said champion to the fullest extent. There's a reason why no one complains about some champions you listed like Malphite, Nocturne, Anivia, Sona, etc. It's because their play rate is small and in accordance to who main those champions.

When you have mostly mains contributing to the stats you get stats that are accurate to where their power level is. Now when you have a play rate that is extremely high you get stats that are lower than they should be and don't accurately represent their power (almost always representing it way lower). I can guarantee you that if Caitlyn had around a 2% play rate her win rate would be damn near 56%.

lolipopevelynnDec 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It matters because you would think someone with a 35+% play rate would have a lower win-rate due tot he influx of players playing them. A lot of players won't be mains or play said champion to the fullest extent. There's a reason why no one complains about some champions you listed like Malphite, Nocturne, Anivia, Sona, etc. It's because their play rate is small and in accordance to who main those champions.

When you have mostly mains contributing to the stats you get stats that are accurate to where their power level is. Now when you have a play rate that is extremely high you get stats that are lower than they should be and don't accurately represent their power (almost always representing it way lower). I can guarantee you that if Caitlyn had around a 2% play rate her win rate would be damn near 56%.

if other adcs that need buffs get buffed, caits play rate will even out. Draven Lucian Tristana all needs buffs.

MohawkBirdDec 28, 20162 votes

I'm skeptical with that logic mainly because Caitlyn has always been the lane monster/bully of bottom lane simply because of her insane range and poke that she has to offer. When Caitlyn is strong, it's a matter of nerfing her instead of buffing other ADCs for that reason.

It would be a similar deal with Draven. He is another great lane bully, so if he becomes strong buffing the other ADCs won't really help because even Draven in a weaker state will almost always win lane against other ADs. It's what he was made to do. Caitlyn was made to bully and win lane.

vOmvbrawfUDec 28, 20161 votes

Except play rate literally means nothing for what your argument just was. Average games played is the stat you're looking for. When you're trying to decide if her win rate is low because of an "influx of players" (ie people that don't know how to play the champ), play rate means nothing. You could have a 75% play rate and still only have mains playing her. Average games played tells you how experienced the champ is overall. And like I said, Cait's isn't bad by any means. So obviously her play rate isn't because of a bunch of people having no clue how to play her. Her average games played is 50, meaning the average Cait you go up against has played her 50 times. That's more than enough to understand what Cait does as a champion.

Meanwhile, Twitch has the highest winrate of any ADC while being 2nd to last in terms of average games played. Meaning people that play him are FAR LESS experienced than any other champion, yet he still has the highest win rate. Where is the bitch about him?

TequilaZombieDec 28, 20161 votes

52 Games on average is not that great.

Pre-Rework Shaco was sitting on 189 games played in average, and had the same winrate.

52 Games in Average is actually a fairly average value. It's not bad, but it is far from good.

vOmvbrawfUDec 28, 20161 votes

And it's easy to argue that Shaco had a lot more complexity in his kit. Cait is literally right click and occasionally throw some skill shots. She is extremely easy to play. Which is why I said more than enough on this particular champ. She is also 7th in terms of the skill, which isn't too bad.

TequilaZombieDec 28, 20161 votes

Objectively, Shaco is also easy to play. He doesn't even have skill shots, it's all point and click. We could argue about the impact of game knowledge when playing him, which I'm the first to admit that it is really big, that's the reason why he was my main for 4 years (and will be once again if he ever gets back to a similar point he was pre 6.22).

However, I argued by the terms you chose, avg games played vs winrate.

In truth, you can't just pick and choose two things and not take others into account. With more play rate, you have more games played. With more games played you have less one sided snowballs (in %).

I'd argue that ADCs right now have a very low skill floor, and that's the problem. They reach a > 50% winrate right at 15-50 games, while staying pretty much the same through the 50 to 125+.

Leo1024Dec 27, 20165 votes

the problem is though is that unlike the other champions you listed, she has a 15% pick rate, the others have significantly lower play rates

lolipopevelynnDec 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

the problem is though is that unlike the other champions you listed, she has a 15% pick rate, the others have significantly lower play rates

vayne and jinx have similar play rates to cait and there winrates are not that far behind either... Caits pick rate skyrocketed only because every other ADC was nerfed one way or another except for her, you need to understand that.

But we all know that play rate doesn't mean shit to riot. Gameplay has gotten champs nerfed at significantly less play rate, the most recent being AP shaco who only had like a 8% or 9% play rate before nerf, and that is for AP. AD shaco had SIGNIFICANTLY less play rate and winrate than AP shaco and they still nerfed AD shaco as well. the fact that they didn't "hotfix" cait yet and decided to nerf AD shaco instead should tell you something.

MohawkBirdDec 28, 20162 votes

It doesn't matter how her win-rate sky-rocketed. All that matters is that she is currently over tuned right now and needs nerfs.

warpenguin555Dec 28, 20164 votes

its actually 30% http://champion.gg/champion/Caitlyn/ADC

Chaos689Dec 27, 20164 votes

You know who's really a problem? Rengar And I say this as a long-time Rengar main. I LOVE this champ at levels you cannot comprehend, and I still think he needs to change. Riot, NOBODY has fun with new Rengar. We mains/Rengar players may win, but it's not enjoyable or challengning in the slightest. You victims/Prey hate being killed by a busted champ. Please, Riot, revert Rengar.

warpenguin555Dec 28, 20164 votes

How many of those champion you listed have a 30% playrate?

paperbIadeDec 27, 20162 votes

cait is broken just stop

SithesisLordDec 28, 20161 votes

Kayle is sitting high and might on her 55% winrate and no one is even batting an eye, clearly what it takes is some person to pick her in LCS for people to wake the hell up.

Meanwhile, no one is playing or banning her. Though i´m sure those have no correlation with her winrate. Kappa.

The problem is that Caitlyn is finding success while being played a lot and not being banned often. Champions like Lee Sin suffer from first timers and unexperienced players, hence the relatively low winrate while having high pickrate.

Caitlyn just needs a nerf, period. Either to enforce her supposedly weak but not anymore mid game into an actual weak mid game, or just outright gut SOMETHING from her kit.

Or Runaan's can just go back to simply being a non-crit AS item, with a lot less AS, though. 70% nowadays and very single ranged AA based champion will be throwing parties.

Y'know why people don´t pick Kayle in the LCS? Because up there, beyond the high elos, she's just an immobile ult bot at every single point of the game. In solo queue, she shines, because teams aren´t as coordinated, mistakes aren´t punished as hard or as often and games extend to the point she can actually out damage everyone. Plus, between playing Kayle for the 10 minute farm or playing Darius for the cheese level 1 kills, or Riven/Yasuo for the flashy and often failed plays, who do you think people will prefer?

Certainly not the lovable angel.

lolipopevelynnDec 28, 20161 votes

Anyway the point of this thread is not to talk about cait, the point is why bitch about cait when champs like tal has a 39% winrate and a .19% playrate? If you are going to use play rate as a factor, tal has close to 0% play rate. No one is talking about that for balance.

lolipopevelynnDec 28, 20161 votes

I just want to make it clear for the last time that this thread was never solely about cait. I can care less if she gets nerfed, what I care about is the soloing out of one champ in particular when several DOZENS of other champs need addressing way before she gets addressed.

You don't need a fucking high pick rate on kayle to figure out she is broken and it doesn't take a genious to see that tal and kali needs some serious help.

Think about it this way, if a champ is so out of control like that if they are buffed they become broken monsters and if nerfed they become useless worms then that champion needs a rework. That has been riots CORE philosophy since the day they even started reworking champions. So the fact that they are leaving kali and tal where they are, despite them both being new champions, should say something about the balance as a whole in this game and it needs to be addressed asap rather than shelving them for an entire god damn season if not more.

champs that stay in a horrible shape stay that way because this community wants to focus on soloing out a champ like cait, who isn't even as oppressive as other champs that do the same job she does, instead of helping champions that need it and have been needing it for a very long time.