ADCs are needlessly strong this patch

Mannny·Jun 22, 2017·80 votes·3,962 views

I can handle tops being strong... I can handle supports being strong... Hell, I can even handle mid laners being strong in a patch or two but one role I can not accept as being strong is an ADC. This role is the most obnoxious role to ever be strong in one patch. I do well in any other role but when it hits 20 minutes and my ADC is weaker then theirs, I might as well call it a day because teamfights will be so uneven it won't even matter how well I do in them. My ADC is fed? I can build whatever the heck I want and I get carried every teamfight because the opposing team can't do anything about it. Not to mention the ADCs that are prioritized currently are disgusting. just to name a few. The role has the strongest champions and they really need consecutive nerfs so they are not the deciding factor in a game.

183 Comments

RewtJun 22, 201735 votes

A carry role shouldnt be a deciding factor in a match http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

SquashCannonJun 22, 201761 votes

{quoted}

A carry role shouldnt be a deciding factor in a match http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

They aren't the only fucking carry role out there.

Don't act like there are 4 supports and only one carry.

PB4UAMEJun 22, 201745 votes

So much this. The entitlement of ADC players. It's like they intentionally don't see how gamewarping ADCs are and have been to League of Legends. Hell, Ashe alone fucked up champion design for 3 years and caused the mobility creep we've seen.

ZardoJun 22, 201713 votes

Can someone explain to me why I always see people who call adc players things like "whiny" or "entitled" get upvoted frequently, but when it's a different role, they get down votes to oblivion? Is the hatred of the adc role that extreme?

OP Garen SupportJun 22, 201722 votes

Yes lots of people hate the ADC role since it shapes the game in their favor.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Euwc3FXt-stop-ruining-the-game-by-favouring-adc-role

Tanks Assassins Mages are all being weakened each patch meanwhile ADC getting buffs. Not all ADC though and not everyone hates ADC role but Riot is forcing the Meta around botlane. Hatred also comes from forcing people to go botlane with auto-fill.

ThefrostyvikingJun 22, 20176 votes

You know.....you're not wrong, not entriely at least.

Because Riot does always buff marksmen, or at least a few of them, any time any other class grows so strong that the marksmen are suppressed by it.

But marksmen don't have it easy either you know?

Any half decent ADC would know that the support is the entire reason they can exist botlane, they will praise their supports like they praise the sun in dark souls.

If they don't then they really do deserve to get roasted, and i am speaking as someone with both marksmen and supports at lvl 7 x)

And while i have played with bad players on both sides i have also played with plenty of good people too, who realized the importance of their role or how much work i put in to keep them safe and steady.

And while i do understand your frustration at marksmen being enforced i do want you to consider this, if marksmen weren't around everyone would probably be playing skirmishers like fiora, yasuo and...tryndamere? Kayle?

Because the marksmen are the strongest counters toward those who are so extremely hard to shutdown with burst.

But marksmen are also the greatest reason supports exist, without them the general healer or peel support would be less relevant and instead you´d go for duo mage botlane for CC and burst chains.

Tanks would be fairly bad too, after all their resistances would be nerfed so mages can hurt them and then they´d be pointless. Not to mention how useless they are anyway against Fiora, Darius and Trynda.

Assassins also generally profit from marksmen existing, because they and the supports are the most favored targets, mages generally have stuff like item 3157 or powerful CC or other self preservation or just massive range to keep them safe.

So the remaining ones would be skirmishers, juggernauts and mages, the others would remain to some degree but they´d be far weaker in comparison.

But are people wrong to be frustrated? No.

Because it's often true that the botlane that wins will snowball and be able to carry games, many play that role as a duo which is far more potent than any other combo.

And isn't it frustrating then, that two people out of 5 can keep a game going even if the others players on the same team were smashed?

It is really, i won't argue otherwise.

But it's also unfair to make judgement and statements about marksmen based on their snowball, please do consider their base points.

I really think it's kinda unfair that everyone keeps calling Ashe KogMaw and Varus OP when it's Draven Twitch Lucian and Caitlyn that have dominated for so long.

Instead it's all thrown under the same banner and suddenly all marksmen are OP and bullshit even if their win and playrates aren't even good.

WiegrafOfValorJun 22, 20176 votes

Because they are babysitted for 20 minutes, we give CS, kills, peel and protect them so they can deal damage and get fed.. just so they think they "carried" the game all by themselves and just because they have "damage dealt" bar higher than others...

Not to account for the fact that Riot keep making their life easier by buffing them while nerfing everyone else. And remember that most of the time Teamfights are lost because ADCs don't know wtf they are doing and either don't focus the right target, run away and don't deal damage while his team tank theirs, or position themselves poorly and die..

ADCs are like spoiled brats.. they receive everything and don't take their responsibility seriously.

ZardoJun 22, 20173 votes

But what about those who don't do that? I've played with so many humble adcs, those who realize that their supports set up those kills, the ones who know that it was there fault it was out of position. I don't think it's fair to these people to stereotype a whole role in league, even if many aren't that way.

ThefrostyvikingJun 22, 20173 votes

My hero ;_;

Any half decent ADC would know that the support is the only reason they can even exist in the botlane.

All true ADC mains will be praising supports like they praise the Sun in dark souls.

Otherwise they are naught but filthy heretics that should get roasted.

PRAISE THE SUPPORTS!

TóxicoChicoGuapoJun 22, 20178 votes

OP is also grossly exaggerating. ADCs can easily blow up instantly if you do your job as the other 4 roles.

you have 4 people who can fuck the adc and the 5th (your own adc) can also fuck him if the enemy adc doesnt turn on them immediately.

adcs have always been the role that scales the hardest.

I'd argue its less adcs being good right now and more so that tanks don't feel as tanky as they have in the past.

in the past it felt awful as an adc when up against tanks in the mid game because even with two items you can't do shit vs that much health/armor.

idk if the small changes to tank items made that big of a difference, but mid game doesn't feel nearly as bad even vs tanks.

but yes, if the enemy adc is ahead of yours, you better prioritize that adc even more so in team fights.

AhristocatsJun 22, 201710 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/41R2EZEN-the-feel-when-an-adc-is-tankier-than-a-tank

i deleted a video of a draven with death dance, phantom dancer, and knight's vow facetanking 4 people

he had ivern and janna shield too, redemption and locket good fucking luck for "easily" blowing them up

Subject 5Jun 22, 20177 votes

{quoted}

A carry role shouldnt be a deciding factor in a match http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

So boards thinks ADC's are the only carry role.

By the way, Orianna is the most ~~balanced~~ Broken champion in the game /S

DarkSunSovereignJun 22, 20172 votes

Dude, boards is composed by multiple people, not just the idiot above.

MannnyJun 22, 201718 votes

Shouldn't be the deciding factor in a match. ADCs can be strong but when it all falls down to whichever one is doing better then maybe it's time they need nerfs.

Critmaster GarenJun 22, 20177 votes

{quoted}

A carry role shouldnt be a deciding factor in a match http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

please remember this sentence the next time skirmishers like Yasuo Fiora Jax or juggernauts like Darius Mordekaiser DrMundo are strong and carrying games.

marksmen arent the only carry role.

KennysDreamGirlJun 22, 20175 votes

When did he say that other roles aren't carry roles?

Critmaster GarenJun 22, 20175 votes

{quoted}

When did he say that other roles aren't carry roles?

op noted how marksmen are generally op and too impactful on the game right now.

he made the excuse that theyre supposed to be this impactful because theyre a carry role. well, most other carry roles dont have as much of an impact as marksmen.

SkorchJun 22, 20174 votes

Im pretty sure he never made an excuse on what a carry role should do.

He simply stated the flaw in OPs stating that "a carry role" being ANY carry role shouldnt be the deciding factor, to which he clarified that ADCs shouldnt be the only.

RainfallJun 22, 201723 votes

every balance change riot has made this season was to buff botlane. assasin rework:crapped half the assasins tank rework:less hp support item changes:better support items.

Azure DancerJun 22, 20172 votes

Nerfs to armor pen and armor buffs are kind of a nerf tho

OP Garen SupportJun 22, 20172 votes

Except it ruined the HP scaling champions meanwhile buffing AD items for "compensating" .

GayFluffyUnicornJun 22, 20175 votes

The only thing getting nerfed by armor pen especially lethality were champs like jayce and ad assassins. ADCs can always opt into crit. Armor buffs? Only helped adcs against assassins, jayces, pantheons etc. GA, tabi rings a bell?

NiyumiJun 22, 201719 votes

This patch? ADCs have been absurd for well over a year now.

Chembaron YamadaJun 22, 201710 votes

Seems someone already forgot the "ADCs in 2k17 lul" meme.

Xion The XIVJun 22, 20173 votes

Yea I don't understand. Draven is strong, because of an Item and that is it. It's fun being a jungler and the adc thinking they can be by themselves to farm minions. Love giving them grey screens.

LauchmelderJun 22, 201710 votes

The "ADC in 2k17" meme was used for a patch or 2 by good ones and way too long by trash ADCs.

Dextix LTJun 22, 201727 votes

Seems someone doesnt understand that the meme was just that, a MEME. It was a MEME made by adc mains, complaining about how it isbad for them, when it actually was not. Even then adc was a MANDATORY ROLE. At that time the role was actually balanced, because they would get killed by assasins (Which should happen) and had a clear job.

AirKingNeoJun 22, 20171 votes

So when Ziggs becomes an ADC and there's literally no good fucking adcs.

Then comes a tanks dive and kill you while you can do anything meta forced ADCs to be long range AD mages, like Jhin and Varus.

That's not the "ADC in 2017 LUL" meme? It actually happened.

Dextix LTJun 22, 20174 votes

A question. How many ziggz bot did you even see? Without pro games of course. Because i rarely saw them. Ziggz was played bot, TOGETHER with many other adc's.

So your argument is, since that one siege mage, became viable bot for a short time, that all adc's sucked, despite them being picked the rest of the time? Huh? You do realize that this means, that because MF support was a thing once, by your logic, all supports sucked at that time? You do realize how your logic is faulty, right?

And again, tanks did not do what you described happening. Adc's were dying to burst mages and assasins, something they are SUPPOSED to die to. The tanks (Without a few op exceptions) havent been in meta for a long time.

The meme, is a meme. It never happened. Adc's were never bad. They were always good and at some places, average.

Even during your so called "ADC in 2017 LULLULULULUL HURRR DURRRRRRR" time, the role was MANDATORY, and it still is MANDATORY.

PhDs NutsJun 22, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEK1Xwag,comment-id=00000001000200000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T16:43:07.433+0000)

Even during your so called "ADC in 2017 LULLULULULUL HURRR DURRRRRRR" time, the role was MANDATORY, and it still is MANDATORY.

The role isn't mandatory because of the strength of ADCs. It's mandatory because of the nature of MOBAs.

AhristocatsJun 22, 20176 votes

other mobas have sieging and towers

other mobas do not have adcs mandatory

Dextix LTJun 22, 20173 votes

No, i play Dota 2 on the side. I can take a melle dps just as easily as a ranged one. Hell, i can take a caster or even a mage and have good effect. LOL is really the only moba i have played that has ADC as a mandatory class.

AirKingNeoJun 22, 20171 votes

He became the best marksmen for two patches. Not just viable, the fucking best.

Support MF was used because it countered Zyra. It had nothing to do with the role being weak. Of course, I'm not an idiot and you should already know this.

Tanks have been meta since the beginning of season 6 to the tank update. Do you remember the beginning of this season? A draven went from FULL MANA to NO MANA trying to a kill a Poppy. Draven had 2.5 items and COULD NOT GET HER UNDER HALF HEALTH. How about Naut tanking 23 turret shots in LCS? What about the entire MAOKAI BEING PICKED OR BANNED EVERY SINGLE LCS GAME BECAUSE OF HIS ABSURD HEALING?

No, ADCs were jumped on by tanks, couldn't move, and killed by tank base damage alone.

It's a meme because it did happen. I explained it happening. You're denying the truth.

The role is required because you need a DPS class. Hence why top lane is required to be tanky people or skirmishers who can kill tanks. Why Mid lane is for burst champions. Why the entire support role is based around ability to protect and zone. Why junglers have to be anyone who can gank efficiently. Tell me, DO YOU KNOW OF ANOTHER DPS CLASS OTHER THAN MARKSMEN THAT HAS HIGH, MULTIPLYING SCALING? No, there isn't. Maybe if you had basic knowledge of the game, you might understand. Sadly you, like most on these boards, lack that.

Dextix LTJun 22, 20172 votes

Again, he was not the best, not even by a longshot. He was played bot, but so were many others adc's. He was not the best, he was simply good as a pick in certain situations, same as MF. The coming into roles that are not their usual ones, does not mean others at those roles are bad, it just means that those champs found niches.

Tanks have never been meta from the cinderhulk meta. What you are probably referencing are JUGGERNAUTS, not tanks. And from tanks, the only great tanks were the broken ones. It was not tank meta, it was simply some op champs being top picks, not an entire class being strong.

Its a meme because adcs died to things that they were supposed to die to, because they died with shitty positioning, because they died without peel. All thing that SHOULD HAPPEN in the first place.

And no, the role is NOT required.

You can take tanks/mages/carries/assasins on top and do well.

You can do the same with mid.

Same with jungle.

Even support role has a simmilar choice!

Adc is the ONLY class that is mandatory, every other lane can be taken by several classes of champions at any time. I have the base knowledge from PLAYING THE GAME and seeing all of those things happening. I have seen multiple classes swapping throughout the lanes, and i saw only ONE mandatory class that almost never gets swapped by others, that being the adc class. When i play Dota 2, i can take anyone from Chaos Knight to Faceless to sniper or drow for that same role. LOL is the only game that has ONE class as mandatory at all times.

AirKingNeoJun 23, 20171 votes

Ziggs held highest winrate for about 2 patches or so, and consistently high for around 5 in total. http://prntscr.com/fn2t52

Tanks were meta. You're talking in the jungler, not top lane. No, I am not referring to Juggernauts. I'm talking about the Ekko-Maokai-Poppy meta. Entire class wasn't strong? Then why did they nerf Sunfire and Iceborn, which effects the entire class? Ironically enough, only a few picks in the ADC class are strong, but we dare call it a meta because "fuck adcs, lul".

Really? An adc was supposed to be jumped on by a tank that he couldn't run from or kill and die due to the tank's base damage? They positioned just fine, tanks were just broken and ADCs were shit.

The role is required. You can't take mages or assassins top, they lose. Hence why only anti bruiser mages like Rumble and Swain are the only ones played top. You can't do the same with me, OTHERWISE PEOPLE WOULD DO IT. Jungle has everything. Support isn't either, has to be a champion that peels, enchances, or zones.

Then come up with something. What kind of class can take the same role of ADC? If top is tankiness and brawling, mid is burst, jungle is flanking, and support is protection, what else is DPS? What else could be DPS? Think about that.

Dextix LTJun 23, 20172 votes

Im sorry, but does your graph compare one champion with an entire class instead of every champion individually? You know that the graph in such a case shows nothing? You are comparing a single stat with an AVERAGE, compare him to the performance of other adc's INDIVIDUALY, because then you can see that he was not so strong. Its a misleading statistic that you are showing, because the data is completely skewed.

Again, it was not tank meta. Having a few broken champion does not make something a META. Ekko, is not a tank at all in the first place, and his tank build when it existed was op. Also, nefing items does not show that a class is strong or not. By that logic every bad decision Riot makes is a good decision because you can apply the same logic "Oh x was just op" without looking at the real situation.

An adc should not even be CLOSE to a tank in te FIRST PLACE, and if they are they DESERVE to die for shitty positioning. How is someone like maokai reaching an adc? ow any tank is supposed to do that? Your support and allied tank will stop them! If not, they suck/ And that does no mean that tanks are broken. That means that you fucked up and thats it.

You can take mages and assasins top. Rumble, Swain, Lissandra, Cho'Gath, and many others can be played top. Assasins such as Talon and Zed can also be easily played top. Just because people dont do it does not mean they cant. Also FYI, people actually do those things, you should just pay attention.

If this game was not skewed towards adcs, such roles as melle carries, dps mages, and many others would be just as viable bot. But they are not. All of those roles you "classified" are not even classified in that way because they are flexible and can change around. ADC NEVER changes.

AirKingNeoJun 23, 20171 votes

You asked how good Ziggs was. I provided it.

And a few broken AD carries (Caitlyn, Twitch, Draven) doesn't make a meta either, but you keep insisting based on that notion. You're not allowed to apply one thing for yourself, but not to others. That's hypocrisy.

They aren't close to a tank, they're in basic attack range and getting killed. Your memory fails you. That's why they played super long range lethality users like Varus and Jhin. They aren't killing frontline like the rest of the ADCs, and they're able to deal damage to squishies without being killed.

Rumble, Swain, and Lissandra are anti-bruisers, making them a special kind of mage who can go top, just like Teemo and Quinn. Cho'Gath is technically a tank, but really he's just a pile of shit. Talon and Zed aren't played top. Obscure things don't get to count as fact in reality. For ever Zed top there is a Darius ADC, for every Darius top, there's a Zed mid.

The game isn't skewed towards ADCs. Melee carries wouldn't be viable bot lane because it's impossible to build full damage as a melee carry and not get blown up in teamfights. That's why no one builds full damage Jax, why Fiora sucks at teamfighting. ADC does change. You have caster and attack based AD carries. The problem is Caster ADCs are infinitely better because they get the same items as attack based ADs AND COOLDOWN REDUCTION which lets them come online earlier and barely get outscaled. You need to be overpowered to be a good attack based ADC.

Dextix LTJun 23, 20172 votes

Except you proved nothing. The data you gave is misleading. Give the comparable data that compares ziggz to each adc individualy. Because there are META adc's and then there is someone like urgot (Who still gets into that average data). This skews the data completely.

A few broken carries do not make the meta, that is right. But when those broken carries are from a class that is already overtuned in the first place. That is a problem.

And im sorry, will call BULLSHIT agian. IF an adc is in basic attack range. Unless the adc is urgot, a tank is not reaching you in any way shape or form. Stopping the enemy front line is the job of YOUR frontline. If they dont then the adc is EXPECTED to die. What you basically want is for the adc to stop having any real weaknesses that they are SUPPOSED TO HAVE! And call them weak for having the weaknesses they are SUPPOSED TO HAVE!

Those "obscure things" can and ARE played in those places. Far more often than Darius adc. And the biggest issue is that even if its not meta they can still be PLAYED THERE. In the adc role the ONLY deviation in YEARS was ziggz. In YEARS.

And it would be possible that melle carries could be viable bot if ranged was not such an insane factor in the game that gives the adc's so much power. Look at DOTA 2. Thats it. Just look at DOTA 2. While the adc role exists it is NOT so rigid and stale. You can play both a melle and eranged, both a caster and an aa monster. Because both are VIABLE options. The only viable adc is option is ranged adc's, thats it. Nothing else. This shows that a role is warped, because other roles cant even THINK about going bot and succeeding.

Glory ln DeathJun 22, 20177 votes

Every position except Bot has multiple viable classes that normally fill it.

Support has Enchanters/Catchers, Tanks, and Mages.
Mid has Assassins and Mages.
Top has Divers, Skirmishers, Tanks, and Battle Mages.
Jungle has Divers, Assassins, Tanks, etc.
Bot has Marksmen.

Not only that, but Marksmen go to literally every other position. Why is it a problem when Ziggs Bot has under a 5% pick rate? Marksmen should not have a monopoly on the Bot position. Just because other champions can viable be played there does not mean Marksmen are weak. It means that they aren't oppressively strong.

AirKingNeoJun 22, 20171 votes

WHO ELSE IS SUITED FOR A DPS ROLE? No one but DPS mages.

Top lane is fighting and CC, where tanks and fighters go.

Mid lane is burst, hence mages and assassins.

Support is protection, hence peeling tanks and enchanters.

Jungle is literally everything.

EDIT: Oh, people are actually stupid and downvote what they don't understand.

AhristocatsJun 22, 20175 votes

skirmishers, juggernauts, battle mages

is that new to you?

Glory ln DeathJun 22, 20175 votes

No, that's not how it works. Positions don't just magically have some requirement for which champions are suited for them. DPS isn't required to come from Bot. Battle Mages have DPS - Ryze, Rumble, Swain, Cass, etc - but they don't go bot lane. Skirmishers and many Divers are primarily DPS, but they don't go bot lane, either.

ADCs go bot lane, not because they're DPS, but because they are incredibly strong when allowed to farm tons of gold to purchase high-end items while protected by a dedicated support. They completely crowd out other options because of their range and being auto-attack based, giving a significant early game advantage against melee champions and most mages.

AirKingNeoJun 23, 20171 votes

Ok then allow me to explain why you're wrong using basic logic, and I'll go case by case. Either you're stupid or just wanting me to explain, either way, you're horrifically wrong.

Ryze - Other than he sucks, he requires decent amounts of setup for damage during laning which doesn't work well in duo lanes. His ultimate is also best used in mid lane, which is why top lane Ryze died.

Rumble - He's very low ranged compared to range champions so he would suck at teamfights if he built glass cannon like the "marksmen role" does. Also his low range would lose him the lane, especially a duo lane. He's an "anti bruiser" for a reason.

Swain - All the same reasons as Rumble, except with more. ADCs, which is the entire lane, can buy Mortal Reminder. Supports can also carry ignite, unlike top laners who would be punished for not having teleport.

Cassiopeia - Her E ability makes her a high zoning against the hyper mobile assassins. Otherwise I have no clue why she hasn't been tried bot lane, except for maybe her rough powercurve.

Every single god damn fighter - Here's the one where you don't need to think hard. Why is Rageblade shit on Jax, Xin Zhao, Irelia, Aatrox, ect? Same reason Infinity Edge is. They're melee, they can't afford to build full damage unless they want to get blown up, they don't have the safety of range, and thus must build tank/bruiser items which don't scale up exponentially.

Have you ever thought that maybe it was because of their mid game and late game and nothing to do with the early game is why melee's aren't brough bot lane? Why the design of Mordekaiser "Marksmen" failed? Seriously, please just think logically, so I don't have to waste my time explaining the fundamentals of the game because someone wants to circlejerk that ADCs are broken.

Glory ln DeathJun 23, 20175 votes

You continue to troll around and completely ignore the point of this thread.

Why does it matter if other classes are able to go bot lane?

Why does it matter if 1 mage was able to have a tiny, but successful, play rate in bot lane?

Why is it acceptable for 1 class to have a complete monopoly on an entire position?

Everything you are stating isn't answering or even contradicting any of these questions or concerns. All you are doing is stating why Marksmen are overwhelmingly strong in the bot lane and crowd out all other potential picks.

That isn't the point!

We all know why they have a monopoly in Bot. What we're asking is why they are allowed to have a monopoly there, and why ADC mains are so obstinate that no other champion ever be allowed to set foot in the role.

Riot doesn't like it either. They've shown through Mordekaiser's rework, the initial concept for Yasuo, designing (or embracing - Graves) Marksmen for other roles like the Jungle (so that a team doesn't hurt in some areas if they take a different class bot), and their acceptance (and explicit statements they made) of Ziggs Bot, that they want to fix this problem and give other champions a chance to be viable in bot lane.

Having a Marksmen-Only bot lane is unhealthy for the game, restricts champion diversity, and inhibits the meta from growing and developing to an extent. We aren't saying all Marksmen should be gutted and kicked out of bot lane. But having it be viable for Marksment to only have a 60 or 70% pick rate in Bot and have other champions able to succeed there and bring different strengths and attributes to their teams would be a_good thing!_

AirKingNeoJun 23, 20171 votes

What we're asking is why they are allowed to have a monopoly there, and why ADC mains are so obstinate that no other champion ever be allowed to set foot in the role.

No ADC main is stopping other champions from doing role. ADC is a strict role because it's required. You need DPS on your team, and AD is the only class with DPS that doesn't fall off. You need to understand that. It's not they don't want variety, it's that the variety just can't exist.

Morde's rework failed for this exact reason. He had to be grossly overpowered, or unviable because he didn't provide high DPS.

When has marksmen only bot lane been unhealthy? It never has. The meta always grows and marksmen aren't stopping it. Other champions attributes don't belong in the bot lane, they exist already in other roles. Every role but top lane and jungle have very strict requirements. Top lane is brawling tanky characters or anti bruisers; mid lane is burst; support is protection (enchance, peel, zone). You don't grasp that.

You can try it. Get 9 other people and play the game without marksmen. You'll find teamfighting very different. Play Jax vs Aatrox in the bot lane, full damage. Mid/late comes and the mage or top lane blows them up without any safety from range.

Glory ln DeathJun 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

It's not they don't want variety, it's that the variety just can't exist.

FINALLY!

It seems you have finally understood the point of this entire thread! THANK YOU! Because Marksmen are kept strong, they maintain a complete monopoly over bot lane. That has never changed in the entire course of the game. Even when Ziggs found a crack to slip through, he never passed a 5% pick rate.

BUT THEY WERE NEVER WEAK! They just weren't as overwhelmingly strong! And that's how it ought to be!

EndlessSorcererJun 22, 20174 votes

ADCs weren't weak even during the "ADC 2k17" period.

The main issue was that they lacked early influence since the top-laner, mid-laner and jungler would all focus on camping bottom lane (due to FB Tower and Dragon).

While they were powerful if they won their lane, they relied on their team winning the laning phase for them.

ThilmerJun 22, 201715 votes

AD ítems has totally go out of control.

AD champions can get 500 AD and be a tank at the same time. Is this a joke..?

item 3812 item 3046 this two ítems are a balance hell, and suddenly item 3026 gives AD.

Jax PrimeJun 22, 201712 votes

A lot of it stems from peel supports being meta. An ADC can position like a tank if they've got a Janna/Karma/Lulu/Thresh next to them. Just to put it into perspective I'll list the amount of defensive tools a Draven/Janna combo has:

Knockup
Knockback
Large AoE heal
Janna heal
Exhaust
Redemption
Locket
Heal summoner spell
Draven flash
Defensive components to itemization (Death's Dance/PD/Tabi) & damage stagger from Death's Dance going into your shield from Janna

AwesomeGuyDjJun 22, 20177 votes

Its because riot has gutted tanks while giving adcs multiple buffs with item cost decreases dmg increases etc. Tanks are there tankiest in mid game, but now adcs shred through them in mid game too. And dmg scales harder than defense so they get blown up late too.