Just as CoC should be the quintessential tank keystone, Grasp should be so for juggernauts

Tychusfindlay919··5 votes·1,117 views

But it's not. It's a half assed keystone that juggernauts like Darius Udyr Volibear forgo by getting Courage of the colossus instead, while other juggernauts that can't proc CotC like Garen Nasus Olaf Illaoi Yorick usually go either stormraiders, fervor, or occasionlly thunderlords.

Grasp should be an item that juggernauts like, particularly by rewarding juggernauts and other fighters for prolonging fights. It should be a keystone that continuously rewards as a fight goes on, as opposed to CotC which is an explosive, instant reward keystone.

I feel like grasp should be something like this:

When in combat for two seconds, the next auto attack deals .5% max HP and heals for 3% missing hp, when in combat for 4 seconds, the next auto attack deals 1% max HP and heals for 6% missing hp. Every two seconds afterwards, auto attacks proc for the second set of values.

Looks something like this:

2 seconds .5% max hp damage /// 3% missing hp heal 4 seconds 1% max hp damage /// 6% missing hp heal 6 seconds 1% max hp damage /// 6% missing hp heal 8 seconds 1% max hp damage /// 6% missing hp heal 10 seconds 1% max hp damage /// 6% missing hp heal etc.

Keep in mind, the percent may look high for the heal, but its missing %, not the current max hp %. Again, this form of healing incentivizes long trades since the healing gets stronger the lower you are, but is a lot less oppressive if you're near full hp. The damage is lowered because the resolve tree should be more about TANKING AND SUSTAIN as opposed to DAMAGE.

COMBAT MUST BE COMBAT WITH AN ENEMY CHAMPION (prevents abuse, and plus this feels more appropriate anyways, technically a nerf in this aspect).

20 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Do you think TLD is a decent keystone for Garen?

Finally decided to leave Grasp as it doesn't help Garen enough.

Lux HD2 votes

Take Illaoi off of that list. Grasp is great on her.

Big Lincoln1 votes

just buff juggernauts directly coz they're all shit

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-08T18:54:39.896+0000)

just buff juggernauts directly coz they're all shit

No. I think one of the big struggles for juggernauts as a hybrid class between melee carry and tank is that they don't have any keystone that theyre comfortable with as a class or that rewards their existence.

Burst mages can take tlords. ADCs can take fervor or warlords. Tanks can take CoC. Juggernauts are a mix of a bunch of things that usually end up feeling mediocre on them because it only satiates one aspect of them.

Ralanr1 votes

Juggernauts can also take Fervor for straight AD.

Though Grasp needs something.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts can also take Fervor for straight AD.

Though Grasp needs something.

Sure, some juggernauts. I run it on darius now. Ideally though, I'd like to invest in the resolve tree and allow itemization and my base stats to take care of damage. That mindset is the archetypical juggernaut mindset.

Big Lincoln1 votes

they're worthless picks, 100% of them are relegated to splitpushing if they fall behind and half of them will splitpush even if they aren't. the only ones that even remain relevant right now are Darius, Nasus and Shyvana. Nasus doesn't even follow the triforce build anymore and Shyvana is broken at the moment.

"no utility only damage" is a terrible philosophy for an entire class

grasp should probably be purely sustain. having 2 functions just makes it more appealing again for the likes of bruiser assassins

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:25:15.462+0000)

they're worthless picks, 100% of them are relegated to splitpushing if they fall behind and half of them will splitpush even if they aren't. the only ones that even remain relevant right now are Darius, Nasus and Shyvana. Nasus doesn't even follow the triforce build anymore and Shyvana is broken at the moment.

"no utility only damage" is a terrible philosophy for an entire class

grasp should probably be purely sustain. having 2 functions just makes it more appealing again for the likes of bruiser assassins

Not true. There is no such thing as a bruiser assassin.

Grasp rewards long fights, which assassins dont do.

Juggernauts are a form of bruiser so if it helps bruisers who cares? That is intended.

Youre coming off as ignorant bro.

Big Lincoln1 votes

we just got rid of bruiser Ekko, did you forget already?

not to mention the horrible start of season 6 where full tanks were topping damage charts thanks to grasp. Nautilus Poppy Maokai

grasp should be sustain OR damage. both is too much.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:31:07.978+0000)

we just got rid of bruiser Ekko, did you forget already?

not to mention the horrible start of season 6 where full tanks were topping damage charts thanks to grasp. Nautilus Poppy Maokai

grasp should be sustain OR damage. both is too much.

Full tanks never topped the damage charts.

Juggernauts abused the release grasp the best. The problem with release grasp is that it holds both functions equally.

Grasp should prioritize sustain over damage. That doesnt mean that it shouldnt have damage though. Theres nothing wrong with damage, but it should be sustain focused, and that is what this change does. It strips a ton of damage and brings a ton of sustain and the valve is time in combat. Its what a juggernaut wants, and to a slighter extent, a tank too

Big Lincoln1 votes

you must have missed it because I remember it happening pretty consistently. half the reason I spammed naut and poppy was because of how broken they were with grasp in top lane

that's an ok change, I suppose. i'm heavily biased against all keystones tho so i'm going to be hard to convince with this.

Maximum Morde1 votes

But.. Grasp sucks.

the weeaboo1 votes

See the problem with grasp is that a majority of the juggernauts using it like Illaoi and Garen does actually auto enough for it to be efficient. I think it should just affect the nearest enemy while in combat, instead of having to auto for it

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

See the problem with grasp is that a majority of the juggernauts using it like Illaoi and Garen does actually auto enough for it to be efficient. I think it should just affect the nearest enemy while in combat, instead of having to auto for it

Uhhh, what?

the weeaboo1 votes

{quoted}

Uhhh, what?

Like you need to hit an enemy with the auto for grasp to trigger and Illaoi isn't going to be using autos that much in combat. It feels bad to have to get within melee range and whack them for you to get the HP/DMG

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Like you need to hit an enemy with the auto for grasp to trigger and Illaoi isn't going to be using autos that much in combat. It feels bad to have to get within melee range and whack them for you to get the HP/DMG

You do understand that W she likes to spam is an auto attack modifier, aka an auto attack?

Lux HD1 votes

Illaoi auto attacks all the time in combat. Her W procs on-hit effects like Grasp, and souls count as enemy champions which means Grasp procs on them.

Grasp is the best keystone for Illaoi 9 out of 10 times.

the weeaboo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:14:45.833+0000)

Illaoi auto attacks all the time in combat. Her W procs on-hit effects like Grasp, and souls count as enemy champions which means Grasp procs on them.

Grasp is the best keystone for Illaoi 9 out of 10 times.

I'm level 4 Illaoi and I never take it. It's garbage. Better to go 18/0/12 and get some life steal and fervor than to take garbage grasp lol

Lux HD1 votes

I'm happy for you.

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