Siege-Deal damage from a distance. Tend to have a good mix of burst and poke to kill, and knock people away from towers. (Xerath, Vel'koz)
Burst- Deal a ton of damage within a few seconds. Tend to have very little counterplay if you get hit with their combo. (Syndra, Brand)
Control- Focus on controlling teamfights. Tend to have CC, Burst, and Sustain. (Karma, Viktor)
Who do you think they should focus balancing this item around?
Erockandroll3 votesRiot expects Chalice to be the Premier AP V AP item. Partially due to its MR. Morello's was meant to be an alternative.
Should we keep with this expectation, I feel like we should return some of the MR that had been removed from Grail.
SeargentAnus1 votesRiot expects Chalice to be the Premier AP V AP item. Partially due to its MR. Morello's was meant to be an alternative.
Should we keep with this expectation, I feel like we should return some of the MR that had been removed from Grail.
The issue with making it AP v. AP is that if one buys it they'll have a significant advantage, or no advantage at all depending on the power of the item. This is why I feel they should start to make class specific items for the mid lane. Just don't make it into the same power level as DFG >_>.
UberAffe1 votesVoted other because I'm not sure what category this would fall under. My understanding of Riots problem with chalice is that it was a single purchase fix for all mana problems my suggest would be to do something like this: has passive mana regen unique passive - Mana Font - mana regen is increased by 1% per 1% of mana you STILL have passive - the unique passive mana font is put on cooldown for 4 seconds after using an ability(that damages the enemy?)
The numbers are just for example they could be changed to anything, but the point is that this forces you to decide between regening back to full and continuing to poke/engage/siege. This would allow you to say get a significant amount of mana back on your way to gank a lane but it wouldn't allow you to spam your abilities endlessly once you got there.
SeargentAnus1 votesVoted other because I'm not sure what category this would fall under. My understanding of Riots problem with chalice is that it was a single purchase fix for all mana problems my suggest would be to do something like this: has passive mana regen unique passive - Mana Font - mana regen is increased by 1% per 1% of mana you STILL have passive - the unique passive mana font is put on cooldown for 4 seconds after using an ability(that damages the enemy?)
The numbers are just for example they could be changed to anything, but the point is that this forces you to decide between regening back to full and continuing to poke/engage/siege. This would allow you to say get a significant amount of mana back on your way to gank a lane but it wouldn't allow you to spam your abilities endlessly once you got there.
It'd help burst mages the most. Siege mages are forced to constantly be using abilities to clear waves. They'd be allowed to use the passive for a little bit. Burst mages have a difficulty with clearing waves, and are forced to use abilities to clear waves. Mid game they care less on pushing waves and more on champions, so this would allow them to stay on the field longer. Control mages tend to be at full mana most of the time, but this would also help them.
Honestly I've been thinking of ideas such as Units killed will restore either (%) or (Flat) mana. Dealing damage to enemy champions causes increased mana regen for a few seconds
UberAffe1 votesmaybe an inversion of the cd that I had: mana font is only active for _ __ seconds after hitting an enemy(neutral monster?) with an ability. mana font has a _ _ second cooldown
that way it rewards you for not missing your skills but also requires you to use skills if you want any regen. But because it has a cooldown between activations champions like ziggs would have "windows" of regen to work around instead of a steady stream.
this would probably be too strong if it was part of the same item but if they added an item that reduced the cost(mana/energy/health) of abilities by up to 20% with permanent stacks that were gained from using abilities, would stack the same way tear does. as with other things the 20% was an arbitrary amount and it could differ between the cost types. ^I'm going to be making a separate discussion for this item idea
Meep Man1 votesSiege, it makes the most since that someone that will be spamming long-range abilities would need this the most. Helping it with Burst mages would be bad since it would allow for easy snowballing since they need mana limits so they don't just sustained burst. Control usually don't have mana issues unless you are Ori.
asktiks1 votesnone, id wish they flat out delete the stupid usless thing so riot can stop trying to shove it back down our throats (read morello price increase to make it " more inline with chalice" aka no one buys it so we make the other shit more expensive to make our shitty item more appealing )
as it stands, every mana regen item blows because not one of the early aman regen items has ap and regen, energy users get a free pass ans can rush straight to dmg and core items while we get stuck farming 3k items just to not go oom and have 10 cdr while with 3 k energy users get to build botrk or cleaver and GG
tldr id rather they delete chalice entirely so we can balance mana regen on champs without using items, that or nerf energy regen so energy users have to actually conserve like we do , simply put...season 5 is the anti mage season , f lee sin, f zed, f yasuo, f lcsbigplays has made this game and its enforced meta the most C blocked , on rails moba experience ive had in all my years playing them
this past week? my playtime has dropped from 10 -12 games a night to a single game to get my first win of day bonus then its back to dota or some other game, if that doesn't say how unappealing the game has become this season...
aperson11 votesThey probably meant it to be a general lane item, something you can get if you're behind so you can survive enemy AP burst and (hopefully) still have the mana regen to waveclear.
It's not too bad right now, but they'll probably have to increase the MR on Athene's if they want to make it more appealing as a regen option.
Rebonack1 votesYou don't have the only right option on there.
Grail should be for mana-using Tanks. Having two AP/CDR/MP5 items will result in one of them being more optimal than the other pretty much 100% of the time.
Remove Morello's grievous wounds passive and give it Grail's on-kill mana regen passive in addition to a weaker effect that triggers when you hit enemy champions with your spells.
Change Grail's buildup to Chalice+Kindle+Glacial Shroud and give it a mana regen effect that triggers when you take damage from champions and large/epic monsters.
Old Man Teeto1 votesChalice should cater to those who tend to want to build RoA early, and tend to favor the slightly defensive AP variants, or just need multiple supplies of mana.
Swain, Anivia, AP Kogmaw, Zilean, Kassadin, Galio come to mind.
Morello's should be for those who don't need insane mana regeneration in the late game and tend to need more AP early.
TF, Le-Blanc, Gragas, Brand, Karma, Xerath come to mind.