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Swain Rework (Call to Swain Mains)

5050BS··3 votes·1,494 views

Please PLEASE dont kill Swains carry potential.

Also his drain tanking is a great concept and fits his theme. He is a Leader that is scary who even tho is a tacition can wade into battle and cross swords with the best of them.

I really fear you will kill him as you tend to do with all casters. He is one of the only casters that can self heal though combat. Who leads a team fight by rushing into the back line taking hard CC but able to live while his team then moves in to take the priority targets. Who has reach with his W and Q to slow and lockdown mobile champs while not being mobile himself.

He is in some ways a Hyper Tank and I feel needs to keep that.

So Please PLEASE dont remove this play style.

fyi I post this because of what was said here http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/07/champion-roadmap-july-2017/

"We want to keep the “essence” of Swain intact, even though we will be completely rebuilding his entire kit from scratch. "

I feel swain mains (like me) need to start voicing our thoughts before it is to late.

13 Comments

PhearBunny3 votes

idk why they are reworking Swain his kit is very well balanced and enjoyable to play. There are champions out there that actually need help...

Aatrox Kayn Mordekaiser Hecarim Skarner Nocturne. etc etc etc.

AlexisTheDragon1 votes

Kayn?

PhearBunny1 votes

I hate that they leave his passive/transformation progress unpolished and sloppy as hell. I also hate how it makes him feast or famine in literally all of his game. There should atleast be a timer to prevent the whole famine thing, since his whole feasting phase(when it occurs) only lasts a few minutes and isn't on par with other assassins who can actually stay relevant past 20mins.

ModCaliCoastReplay3 votes

I am chiming in to support this. What people are saying about Swain - "he's a brainless champ, just hit R, stand there and win" - is totally wrong.

I admired Swain for years as a champ but could never master him until just this year. And that is because I was playing him the way his critics think he plays. I played him as a simple drain tank that just stood there hoping R would kill everybody. And I got smoked like a salmon, over and over again. Swain actually requires a great deal of thought in many of his engages. He is not a true tank. He is a squishy mage tank who has to dodge most major stuns, CC, and kite damage while simultaneously staying in range to keep his R active and to cast E. And R does not actually kill much on its own unless it's already near death - his real kill combo is E-Q, with W as an aid to hit it, but the stun is not even as necessary as most think except against faster champs.

Many of his critics don't play him, and think that Swain is just "standing next to them and pressing R", when the reality is that they're dying because Swain hit (W)-E-Q-R and several autoattacks all in a row, and all they see is R because it's such a visual effect compared to the rest. I guarantee you that getting all of this off is a necessity to kill all but the squishiest champions in the game, because I tried Swain for many years and did not hit anything close to his entire kit on many characters and constantly couldn't kill a thing.

Getting this all off is actually a brutally skillful dance that only good Swain mains actually understand, and does require micro tactics. The irony of a cripple needing to perform a rather skillful dance in any given serious engage to be effective is what makes me believe his kit and lore are not as far separated as everyone thinks.

I also see everyone going "Well his kit is brainless, he's not a tactician". Presumably they want Swain turned into this.

I do not want Swain turned into this.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/06/01

If that's going to be the new Swain I will be sadder than Amumu. Please keep his core raven-based gameplay and mage-tankiness intact!

ModCaliCoastReplay2 votes

The part of his lore that is not used well is more about generalship than tactics, in my opinion.

I could certainly live with a minor rework of Swain that gave him a passive that buffed minions or champions - but I'd hate to lose his current passive as well, as he is utterly mana-thirsty, without some kind of mana-returning ability in exchange. Or W or E could be altered to do it - but without W he loses what little escapability he has against tough melee junglers and mids, which tend to eat him alive at present.

I will definitely be very sad if Q and R change. I love the lore, the raven-based imagery, and the playstyle of both effects.

A good rework would make him more of a general, able to influence minion waves/other champs and battlefield flow, and fix his aging-kit weaknesses against crit melee types (Yasuo) that dodge everything he has too easily.

A bad one will turn him into some kind of Noxian Teemo, and if that happens I will have to ask him to get Darius and Draven to wreck the joint.

HexaDecimel2 votes

Wasn't Swains theme and essence a Noxian General and Master Tactician? His current kit has nothing to do with that theme.

CannonLordFreed1 votes

You are aware that Swain's theme and backstory fill a support playstyle fantasy that league doesn't have right now, right? I'm not saying they should go this direction, but if Galio's rework is anything to go by, they very realistically could.

5050BS3 votes

I have played him as a support and it works if your ADC knows how Swain works.

But saying his play does not fit his backstory has literally nothing to do with his play. He IS a drain tank IN game.

If we go by back story then Zyra should be a strong MID lane caster and they have killed her and forced her to be a support.

Annie and Malz should NOT be a support.

Backstory has literally nothing to do with play.

As a Swain Main I like his play style and Im very afraid they will remove it completly Urgot style.

Thing with Urgot is that his play didnt fit into the game well at all while Swains does.

CannonLordFreed1 votes

You want him to be a general and tactician. You're aware that that's a support playstyle fantasy, right? Yes, he can be a drain tank, but a drain tank does not make him a general or tactician. The way you're suggesting playing him he's more like Kled, a grumpy old man who runs into battle without a second though to kill everything.

Agomoto3 votes

{quoted}

You want him to be a general and tactician. You're aware that that's a support playstyle fantasy, right? Yes, he can be a drain tank, but a drain tank does not make him a general or tactician. The way you're suggesting playing him he's more like Kled, a grumpy old man who runs into battle without a second though to kill everything.

how is that a support fantasy??? seriously lol since when is a general or tactician called support, and even so if you want to include his title then include his lore as well which clearly states he is a front liner that battles with his troops soooo.....

swain has always been a solo laner to make him support would alienate his current mains, not that there isn't a fit there i have once or twice played him supp with success but his has always been the engage i believe his spotlight video even stated: he is best at locking down and taking out priority targets which is what he excels at being that is what he is, his fantasy, he is able to be the carry by having solid lock downs on a very predictable cc so risk and reward, i believe he can fill that role similar to what an enchanter is to ever quest the presence to change the outcome of a battle placing your cc where it would best benefit a team and killing the target you focus and rewarded if your plan succeeds.

much like what he is now in a 1v3 played right and given you know your opponents well enough if you select priority targets over the obvious front liner, dance around a bit place your cc to gain distance surviving via heal you can usually (depends on the state of the match) get a kill and survive, get two and die or if everything pans out the way you choose you can even get away with a triple you are rewarded with correct placement of yourself and cc. this is what makes his idea his image of this grand general and tactician thrive to me, i am rewarded for placements and set ups, because without reliable cc and lack of movement you do need to set up place your self well enough to get a kill and not get caught out be able to anticipate and work around your opponents. either way with this vgu i hope they keep to that his ability to lock down and select opponents to instill fear and have opponents hesitate on either pursuing to kill me or run away. giving that sense of risk and reward for set ups which is what he excels in. turning a situation that otherwise would kill you to a success

things id like for them to keep

the limp zhonyas combo swain train his ability to be a mid range battle/mage his cc nevermove

things i can live with his ult and lazer bird are iconic but it would not be a deal breaker for me torment and his passive are at best quality of life and easily replaceable

ideas can be a mix of nid/ leblanc if they are trying to go tactician

they can branch out to an actual hybrid where one mode is ad and the other ap with transformation giving him options sort of like kaynes idea but more of a toggle and choice in direction where one side would suffer with an all ad build and vise versa ( he was classified mage/fighter)

or keeping his battle mage capability but with more prerequisites and options instead of the 4 moves he has now.

just my two cents.

CannonLordFreed2 votes

I mained old Galio. Riot does not give two shits about alienating current mains. They will rework Caitlyn into Jhin and call it a day if they feel like it.

Agomoto1 votes

{quoted}

I mained old Galio. Riot does not give two shits about alienating current mains. They will rework Caitlyn into Jhin and call it a day if they feel like it.

Lol this made me laugh more than it should have the last comment hit home , though I know it to be true I am going to still use him because he is such a interesting character to be and his concept has so much potential.

CannonLordFreed2 votes

Yeah, I will admit I like swain. I'd also really like a general style support to play, and Swain or Aatrox is the most likely thing we'll get to it in the near future. We used to have old Gangplank who sorta did that but not really, and he was a better top then too.

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