Why is there such strong negative backlash on the idea that Sona needs buffs?

RedCyclone·Oct 11, 2015·5 votes·846 views

It's clear that she currently exists in one of the weakest states she has ever been in

It's clear that her winrate is tied to her simplification and that she is better against those with less experience in handling her, simply put, there are more bronze/silver players who refuse to think about counter play on one of the most counter-able champions in the game , while in the plat+ range people know how to take advantage of her.

It's clear that she is outclassed by AP supports such as Annie/Velkoz/Morg

It's clear that for the first time, it's looking like a 0% pick / ban rate for Sona in worlds

Is it because she is easy to play and learn? Is it because her laning phase can be painful if you have no idea what you are doing? Perhaps it could just be natural hate for Sona and the people who play her?

(oh look, downvotes with no explanation, never seen that before)

24 Comments

SaltyKrackaOct 11, 20155 votes

It's clear you're an idiot who knows fuck-all about statistics.

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

So what am I supposed to be looking at here? Because it doesn't stop the fact that her playrate becomes pathetic when you reach Diamond+ because her weaknesses are just to easy to take advantage of in the hands of competent players

Dedicated Sona players get the middle finger on sticking with her as climbing becomes impossibly steep, pretty much why all Sona players after her rework dropped around 5-3 tiers if they were Diamond before her rework

Meanwhile niece champions such as Urgot can be played, learnt and progress through ranks even to master tier, Sona can't do this

Craft ZeppelinOct 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So what am I supposed to be looking at here? Because it doesn't stop the fact that her playrate becomes pathetic when you reach Diamond+ because her weaknesses are just to easy to take advantage of in the hands of competent players

Dedicated Sona players get the middle finger on sticking with her as climbing becomes impossibly steep, pretty much why all Sona players after her rework dropped around 5-3 tiers if they were Diamond before her rework

Meanwhile niece champions such as Urgot can be played, learnt and progress through ranks even to master tier, Sona can't do this

Why the hell youre supposed to pick sona in every game? She is meant to be a counterpick

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

Why the hell are we gimped FOR picking Sona every game? and if she was an alleged counterpick why does no one actually pick her in pro play

and you still havn't explained why linking me Sona's championgg stats makes me an idiot who knows nothing about statistics

Craft ZeppelinOct 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why the hell are we gimped FOR picking Sona every game? and if she was an alleged counterpick why does no one actually pick her in pro play

Ok, seriously, now youre talking about pro-scenes. If you see any sort of pro-play then you will notice there will be a elise in every match. Can you defend your adc against a HAM diving elise using Sona?

"NO."

RedCycloneOct 11, 20152 votes

High tier play yes

But considering that the entire point of a support is to protect, Sona is pretty shitty at it EVERY game has a champion who is aiming to remove the ADC from a teamfight like Elise, add the benefit of Sona being easy to counter why pick Sona at all?

You realize that you practically said that Sona is shit

Sir YamazukiOct 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Why the hell are we gimped FOR picking Sona every game? and if she was an alleged counterpick why does no one actually pick her in pro play

Welcome to almost every champion ever. Should we buff all champions so they can all be Thresh?

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

Not every champion has a weakness so linear that you are unable to play them at Diamond+

Sir YamazukiOct 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not every champion has a weakness so linear that you are unable to play them at Diamond+

She is playable, you people are literally whining that she doesn't have a 60% win rate with experienced players. You people are as bad as the people who claimed Janna was a trash pick during her 59% win rate era.

Champions aren't meant to be good 100% of the time, there are match ups where 1 champion ends up guaranteed to win when played properly against others, get used to it. Not every champion is Thresh, who at least is actually difficult to play and generally loses when played badly unlike Sona who has a much higher win rate at lower skill levels than Thresh. Sona even wins almost 50% of the time in plat+ against her supposed "hard counter that auto wins the game vs Sona".

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

she is playable yes, until you hit Diamond and I will even admit that she may be too good against players who don't know how to handle her and I virtually only play normals for this reason

but for the millionth time, I DO NOT WANT SONA TO BECOME A GOD TIER SUPPORT Increase her skill cieling, give her more impact, do something, anything Sitting in limbo isn't fun

on the topic of repeating myself, her winrate is tied to how simple she is, but I will add a cool little fact in for you, every nerf Sona received in the last 2 years did LITERALLY NOTHING TO HER WINRATE, she stayed at like 54% the whole time, she only recently is decending to 51-52% now as supports around her are getting buffed but she is forgotten I cannot see her winrate changing much with a small buff, i would be willing to eat those words but Riot hasn't even tried to buff Sona in ways that both make her a little more skillful to play and have an active impact in the game...

Sir YamazukiOct 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

she is playable yes, until you hit Diamond and I will even admit that she may be too good against players who don't know how to handle her

but for the millionth time, I DO NOT WANT SONA TO BECOME A GOD TIER SUPPORT Increase her skill cieling, give her more impact, do something, anything Sitting in limbo isn't fun

No matter what you say, "trash unplayable champions" don't maintain win rates over 50% across all elos, including Diamond. You're not even Diamond either, not even your opponents in normals are mainly Diamond either. Are you blaming her "weak state" for your lack of ability to win as Sona this season? Why are you even so worried about a skill level you're not even at, or even close to it? Why does it matter that 3 random Sona players dropped, one of which that I know didn't even play Sona as a support and played her mid lane. There was also a change to how Diamond ranking worked as well that contributed to some people dropping.

Thresh has like a 48% win rate in Diamond, I suppose he's unplayable and should be buffed, right? I mean if 51~52% is completely unplayable I suppose 48% is incredibly weak. He doesn't even win much when played by mains as well.

RedCycloneOct 11, 20152 votes

Everyone and their grandma plays Thresh, hes much more difficult and leaves more room for fuckups, just like Lee Sin

As for the rank snipe thing, I mentioned this in the post you quoted as an edit, but yes I will admit i'm going a little overboard on the whole diamond thing

Sona isn't unplayable, but she is un-impactful as a full support (her intended role) and being a really easily countered champion who is one of the weakest protection supports in the game, there just isn't any reason to pick her

Sir YamazukiOct 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Everyone and their grandma plays Thresh, hes much more difficult and leaves more room for fuckups, just like Lee Sin

As for the rank snipe thing, I mentioned this in the post you quoted as an edit, but yes I will admit i'm going a little overboard on the whole diamond thing

Sona isn't unplayable, but she is un-impactful as a full support (her intended role) and being a really easily countered champion who is one of the weakest protection supports in the game, there just isn't any reason to pick her

Had no idea pressing R and winning a fight was un-impactful. What counters are you talking about? You Sona mains swear she auto loses to leona but historically Sona's winrate against Leona has always been around 50% AFTER being nerfed, before her nerfs she was winning 53% of the time against her. You say she loses to AP Mages but Zyra is the only one in that group winning vs Sona, you say utility supports are better but she wins against most of them. Only 7 out of 25 actually win games against Sona, how is that "bad"?

You realize all your points make no sense with statistics kept in mind? Just because you lose as Sona doesn't mean it's because she's bad. You want to know the definition of bad, look at Mundo's stats, not even people with hundreds of games average at 50%, he stays under 50% at all elos and at all skill levels in both his roles. All you want is for Sona to be back at her 55%+ win rate state so you can sit there winning games pretending it's because you're doing well.

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

well I will leave you with this

Us pathetic Sona mains are not just looking for buffs, we want to control our own power as a support, instead of being a cheerleader crossing our fingers that our team members are good enough to win with all the invisible power we churn out Her ult is the one thing she can have an impact with, but Annie exists with a shorter cooldown, more damaging, instant cast and longer stun AoE ult, so just pick her if you want to do that

We want something to change about her, she is unsatisfying as her primary role. She could get a bunch of nerfs, but as long as she has some visible power added for her support build, with good intention I think we both aim for the same goal in this discussion, a healthy Sona You may think she is healthy now, but I do not, she crumbles people who have little experience against her but is very counterable against players who do

Thanks for the discussion, some of your points have soaked in, I hope some of mine did for you too

BooriinOct 11, 20151 votes

@RedCyclone: Can you please stop argue with him, look at this xit. It getting to nowhere

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mviecYpw,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-11T11:25:43.130+0000)

Had no idea** pressing R and winning a fight** was un-impactful.** What counters are you talking about? **

@RedCyclone: I just wanna ask you to stop right there because you keep feeding the trolls and haters. Sona will get her change in future as well as item 2049 change, Keep calm and wait.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/09/red-post-collection-select-tier-3-rune.html

When asked about the Sona changes he had briefly mentioned a while back, ricklessabandon noted:

[1] "in a holding pattern for right now. essentially, i have to complete any 'urgent' work before continuing (and i still have some)."

[2] "sure thing! i really, -really- want to get back to her, so hopefully i (and sona players) won't have to wait too terribly long~"

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

good to know

TyroneWatermelonOct 11, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Why the hell are we gimped FOR picking Sona every game? and if she was an alleged counterpick why does no one actually pick her in pro play

and you still havn't explained why linking me Sona's championgg stats makes me an idiot who knows nothing about statistics

Because pro players only pick super viable champs and overpowered who can win their games

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

True, however we still see some off picks every now again, the comfortable idea is for Sona to be one of those champions I don't want her to be as popular as Thresh, I want her to be a great pick if I am amazing with her, much like 95+% champs in the game

her skillset and vulnerability does not let her do this because support Sona's skill ceiling is smaller then a gnats dick, with AP Sona's ceiling only being slightly higher

ModAttysu The PoroOct 11, 20155 votes

DJ Sona is all the buffs I need. http://i.imgur.com/fz4A9CP.gif[/img]

CreationFlawOct 11, 20153 votes

Because a healer shouldn't be able to build lichbane + deathcap and q auto an adc from 100-0.

Also, auras.

RedCycloneOct 11, 20151 votes

I love this shit SONA DOES THIS NOW IT'S HER ONLY FUCKING BUILD!

I want a return of utility Sona, but it's so un-ituitive to play right now that you may as well flip a coin to see if you are going to win or not, because you have very little impact as full support Sona, also it's BORING AS FUCK

Do you not understand?

TyroneWatermelonOct 11, 20152 votes

Cuz why should a lane bully mashing keyboard utility support with above 50% win rate should get buffs?

RedCycloneOct 11, 20152 votes

too easy and high winrate....HMM it's almost like these two stats are linked together

Most Sona players want her to be more difficult so she can be more impactful, it's not all about buffs, I'd take a rework, it could have nerfs in it too, I don't give a shit as long as she becomes more impactful and dedicated Sona players could stick with Sona and climb with her, instead of being forced to go to a different champion because Sona is deemed a training wheels champion while higher tier players know how to make her completely irreverent not matter how good the Sona is

Chuck CharlesOct 11, 20152 votes

sona is definitely weak right now, but she kind of has to be. her easy to land damage would be insane if she could do it without a weakness.

what sona needs is a rework. her crescendo can stay I feel as that is not the issue, nor is a heal. the real issue is that her damage is pretty high on something relatively easy to land. to compensate you have to make her so squishy she is basically useless.

i've seen sona take over games if she goes mid and builds ap so she's not that bad. even in bot she's not bad if you position well. but I feel like her kit is too simplistic. she needs a minor rework at this point to make her more diverse and interesting. the auras are garbage on her, which is where all the potential in her kit lies.