Thoughts and Discussion: Kayle

Stacona··1 votes·428 views

Time to list some goods and bads about Kayle:

~ I like her ability power marksman aspect and supportive elements.

~ Kayle has a pretty bland kit, her E is the worst with this as it eventually just turns into an active where you have to press E every 10 seconds, before that it is a passive with a short downtime.

~ Her ultimate and passive are too strong for no effort. ~ ~ ~ Her passive is a huge source of her power, but it is very unnoticeable by the player and there-by also under appreciated, creating something more interactive for the player just be more fun and interesting to use (maybe something like Kayle heals allies when near them ("touch") (minion/champion), a much more noticeable heal if the target is in combat with champions (so very weak outside of this for new free sustain) (also same target cooldown) and in doing so grants Kayle her range and damage on a cooldown for the self passive which scales with cooldown reduction so she can unlock the permanent range mode with enough CDR (healing minions so she can get the range solo)). This would help tone down early game lane power and leave room for better feeling abilities on her active abilities. ~ ~ ~ Invincibility is simply too hard to balance for PvP games, this is one of the reasons why Kayle has been in either extreme of always picked/banned or barely picked. So it may be better to do something else and/or give her just a normal shield just so she can be balanced much easier in the future, invincibility ultimates is not a champion's identity. Attacking the invincibility here because it is just simply something that never will feel fair to go against, unless we go Taric ultimate status and create a long delay to it since it creates a decision to try to run away or burst them out because the ult lands, but then we would just have a crappy Taric ultimate.

~ Kayle's angel theme can be brought out so much better. An angel should be both someone that protects their team and is a mighty and powerful creature ready to strike you down where you stand! Kayle has glimpses of this as she stands now, but on a visual aspect is not seen at all just by looking at her abilities (ignore what they do).

~ I would like to see a large set of changes for Kayle, keeping in mind her angel theme and keeping her core identity of AP marksman-support.


Below is purely for fun! Again below is purely for fun! Need to say it again, that below is purely for fun! It will expand on brainstorming and creating something to work off of for more ideas,


Angelic Touch (Passive): Range: 300 units Whenever Kayle gets near an ally (minion or champion) she heals them for 5 - 40 (+20%AP) health, increased to 20 - 160 (+80%AP) health if the target is in combat with enemy champions or epic monsters, this can occur once every 6 seconds against the same target.

Whenever Kayle heals an ally (minion or champion) or collides with a champion from Righteous Fury, she gains 400 bonus range and deals 20 - 60 (+30%AP) bonus magic damage on-hit in an area for her basic attacks for the next 6 seconds, this can occur once every 9 seconds (reduced with cooldown reduction).

Reckoning (Q): Cooldown: 11/10/9/8/7 seconds; Cost: 75 mana; Range: 650 units Kayle blasts the target enemy with energy, dealing 60/90/120/150/180(+60%AP) magic damage, grounding, and slowing by 20/25/30/35/40% for 2.5 seconds.

Holy Fervor (W): Cooldown: 0.5 second; Cost: 30 mana + 1 charge; Range: 575 units Passive: Kayle stores Holy Energy every 24/23/22/21/20 seconds. up to a maximum of 5 at a time. Kayle's basic attacks on-hit reduces the current charge time of Holy Energy by 0.5/0.75/1/1.25/1.5 seconds.

Active: Kayle pierces the target direction with powerful light, dealing 30/45/60/75/90(+30%AP) magic damage to struck enemies and reduces their armor and magic resistance by 3/4/5/6/7%, stacking up to 15/20/25/30/35%, for 3 seconds.

Righteous Fury (E): Cooldown: 16/14.5/13/11.5/10 seconds; Cost: 100 mana; Range: 600 units Kayle dashes in the target direction, dealing 90/125/160/195/230(+85%AP) magic damage to struck enemies and stopping at the first enemy champion or terrain. Struck enemy champions are knocked back 500 units, minions and monsters are stunned for 3 seconds.

Intervention (R): Cooldown: 120/100/80 seconds; Cost: 100 mana; Range: 900 units Kayle covers the target allied champion or herself in holy light for 3 seconds, shielding them for 150/225/300(+120%AP) shield and causing the first enemy champion that damages the target to be suppressed for 1.75/2/2.25 seconds.


3 Comments

woodvsmurph2 votes

Ekko Aatrox Anivia Kindred Tryndamere Vladimir ZileanTaric Kayle ult is a problem? Look around... invulnerability to damage and/or cc is hardly unique to kayle - both for self and for teammates.

Kayle passive is op? J4 and xin get MORE free penetration as passives than kayle does.

But kayle does aoe mixed damage and scales nicely off attack speed? Jax does the same, has more base attack speed (and therefore better scaling off as items) and a passive that grants free attack speed. Furthermore, he is invulnerable to aa damage and takes like 25% damage from abilities during counter-strike. Which if I'm not mistaken is spammable and can last for about 50% of the time you fight him at full cdr and max rank. Oh, and he gets better base tankiness which is further amplified by his ult's active.

Kayle's kit could be more interesting, but it is nowhere near overpowered. She used to be flexible as a caster/burst mage, an aa ad or ap champ, or a hybrid with some burst and decent dps. Now, she has been changed and is basically only good for dps - which makes her q rather useless other than the slow it provides. With most builds, you actually lose dps on kayle by using her q vs just spamming more e-empowered aa's. Her q could use revising and perhaps her w, but her passive, ult and e are in pretty good shape. And by revising her w, I mean considering changing the power ratio between healing and speed boost - the latter was added to make her a more viable support quite awhile ago. But she isn't really played as a support much and she was meant first and foremost to go as a solo laner.

Stacona1 votes

Kindred can also makes the enemy invincible, so there is more to it and can screw over the player just as much.

Tryndamere - Needs a hard rework Vladimir - Needs a hard rework; also his pool makes him untargetable, but tethers like Fiddle Drain or damage over times still damage him in the pool Taric - They honestly could have brought something else for an ultimate, it is slightly better because of the delay, but at the end of the day this ultimate should be reworked as well since it is something that feels awful to use and when it lands is awful to go against. Terribly designed ultimate. You forgot Jax as well by the way, which also needs a hard rework.

Everyone else listed there does not have invincibility, Aatrox, Anivia, Zac, and Zilean have resurrection spells, but they are not invincibility.


At no point did I say anything about Kayle was overpowered, but something that feels invisible and granting a large amount of power then becomes very unnoticeable and under appreciated very strong power is not something that should be around any longer. If the shred was done in a way that was noticeable, visible, and appreciated then it wouldn't be a problem since there would be a visible aspect about it to go with its power, could then have it stronger through ability ranks or levels.

Main issue with WER is that they are either always good / never bad point and clicks to use or simply button press for a passive effect. E makes more sense just to be Kayle's passive and make the shred into an active so those two can get fixed that way. For a team heal, something that makes it feel unique and Kayle is actually actively doing something to heal her allies rather than pressing W at a very long range. Infinite Shield may be too much, so just a powerful shield will feel more fair to go against, it does the same thing, but to the enemy it makes Kayle seem a lot more fair to play against since even a powerful shield and can be broken; could then add something else to it which makes it more interesting and use it under a condition rather than anytime is a great time to use it (besides when no threats are around). My example idea was a single champion suppression for a moderate time against the first champion that damaged the shielded target, it adds to the protector angel element and in a 1v1 scenario still has Kayle to be feared - plus a suppression has better gameplay to it since QSS is around (or GP Oranges, pretty sure they still work for suppression) (ultimate CC on an ultimate) where as invincibility creates a scenario where there is nothing you can do about it besides for waiting it out.

Kayle shouldn't be allowed any burst as an AP marksman (granted my example kit I did give a bursty spell, but that is because it is through a very high risk play) since the purpose of the role is ranged sustain damage. And then I think there is room for top lane Kayle and support Kayle, or maybe even bottom Kayle sometimes, as long as support is there entirely for her utility and top is dealing damage when going for pure damage.

~ In my example kit I did try to focus Kayle more into teamplay rather than solo play, it just felt more fitting for an angel champion to be with her team, especially going along the lines of not only marksman (team reliant role), but a marksman-support she should feel more towards strong with her allies and weaker when alone.

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