PSA: Cleanse does NOT remove Malzahar's ultimate

YumaS2Astral··56 votes·8,037 views

Only item 3140 can do so.

I am platinum II and I still get many people on my team that do not know this. I just had to explain to the Yasuo on my team that he couldn't cleanse Malzahar's ultimate. If I didn't warned that he would go with an useless spell on our battle.

73 Comments

Penguin Eclipse13 votes

Cleanse by all means should. It's ridiculous that it doesn't.

Remlap122310 votes

Cleanse is such a joke. In Smite, purification beads in their base form are better.

The Ecdysiast5 votes

RIP Ares the moment everyone gets 300 gold.

Rebonack4 votes

If ever Riot wanted to fiddle with Malz' kit, turning his Ult into a targeted stun rather than a channeled suppress would probably be the place to start.

YumaS2Astral7 votes

{quoted}

If ever Riot wanted to fiddle with Malz' kit, turning his Ult into a targeted stun rather than a channeled suppress would probably be the place to start.

This would be so much of a nerf to him. It would mean that his ultimate would be reduced by tenacity, and Mikael's would be able to get rid of it.

FebruAhri9 votes

{quoted}

This would be so much of a nerf to him. It would mean that his ultimate would be reduced by tenacity, and Mikael's would be able to get rid of it.

on the other hand, if it's not channeled he doesn't have to stand still while ulting

Rebonack6 votes

{quoted}

on the other hand, if it's not channeled he doesn't have to stand still while ulting

Yep.

It's a double-edged sword.

It would open up more options for countering Malz' Ult, but it would also give him the ability to peel for himself.

I still think it would be neat if it caused a fully evolved Voidling to burst out of the target Alien style, stunning and dealing damage to them.

junglerboy163 votes

That and GP's Oranges can cleanse his suppression. As far as I'm aware, it is the only champion ability that can do so.

YumaS2Astral20 votes

{quoted}

That and GP's Oranges can cleanse his suppression. As far as I'm aware, it is the only champion ability that can do so.

Alistar ult and Olaf ult can also cleanse themselves from his suppression.

Void Nargacuga7 votes

True. But as long as you are in Leash range of his spell you still take the damage.

YumaS2Astral11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgT1dzAO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T19:39:21.406+0000)

True. But as long as you are in Leash range of his spell you still take the damage.

/\ This

People say that QSS hardcounters Malzahar and leaves him completely useless. However, QSS alone will not save you from Malzahar. You must also be able to either out-DPS him, displace him, burst him down, or at least dash out of the ultimate's range. Otherwise, Malzahar will kill you regardless.

Also, Malzahar can be paired with champions that have dangerous CC, such as Sejuani, Amumu, Morgana, Warwick, etc. They all force you to make a decision: Do I save QSS for Malzahar, or do I use QSS on the other dangerous CC?

KING OF MASKS4 votes

Any comp with both Warwick and Malz is fucking painful.

Void Nargacuga20 votes

Top lane: Warwick Mid lane: Malzahar Marksman: Urgot Support: TahmKench Jungler: Skarner

What about that team?

The Yetii Rider6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgT1dzAO,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T20:44:56.202+0000)

Top lane: Warwick Mid lane: Malzahar Marksman: Urgot Support: TahmKench Jungler: Skarner

What about that team?

Someone tell UberDanger. Full suppress team.

Void Nargacuga4 votes

I would be terrified of going ANWHERE on the map that is not lit up. One wrong move and... 5 suppressions later (if you SURVIVED THAT LONG!) dead. Do not pass go do not collect 200. Straight to grey screen,

Kingopants2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgT1dzAO,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T20:44:56.202+0000)

Top lane: Warwick Mid lane: Malzahar Marksman: Urgot Support: TahmKench Jungler: Skarner

What about that team?

Make Annie support and Taric top with Warwick Jungling and it would be better. Tahm doesn't have point click CC without setup and Skarner ult has so short range it might as well be Rammus' taughnt.

Pedo File3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgT1dzAO,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T20:44:56.202+0000)

Top lane: Warwick Mid lane: Malzahar Marksman: Urgot Support: TahmKench Jungler: Skarner

What about that team?

What about it?Gangplank item 3140 item 3222

Void Nargacuga1 votes

That can only cleanse 2 different instances of suppression. Sadly that team has 5. So which ones will you cleanse? Tahm's Devour (its a suppression for enemies and you still take the exit damage even when you QSS it), Warwick ult, Malzahar ult, Urgot ult, or Skarner ult?

B1naryB0t1 votes

Mikael's doesn't even cleanse suppression.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

Oh really? That I didn't know. I don't pick that item up often enough as a support to know its full effects. Thanks for the info!

B1naryB0t1 votes

I recommend it on pretty much any AP support. That and zekes. Your carry will be a monster.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

I'll definitely have to try it next time I play Sona then!

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

That and GP's Oranges can cleanse his suppression. As far as I'm aware, it is the only champion ability that can do so.

I would think Alistar's Unbreakable Will and Olaf's Ragnarok would do the same...

Akenero3 votes

You forgot to include oranges as a counter to it

Takhuan3 votes

This has been known ever since the beginning of time.

Same with warwick ult.

They are suppress skills.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

For those who say that things like Malzahar's ult or Vladimir's ult should be removed by Cleanse, I must ask:

Do you realize that then those champions could be easily countered by just taking a summoner spell?

Yes, I think that it IS fair that QSS can remove things that Cleanse cannot. Yes, Cleanse takes a summoner spell slot, but QSS actually takes an item slot, and on my opinion, this is a much worse downside. For example, an AP champion that is taking QSS is not using that slot for another AP item, and if he decides to keep QSS during the late game, that champion will not be able to buy an AP item (because there are no AP upgrades for QSS), which will heavily impact his late game damage.

And I don't think that it is fair to say that AP champions do not have a good upgrade for QSS. There are things that AD champions don't get but AP champions get. For example, I would really wish if there was an AD Zhonya's Hourglass, so that I could use it on assassins like Kha'Zix and Master Yi.

Vik4prez2 votes

This premise fails on a number of levels though. Yes summoner 1 removing a Malz ult would make Malz almost worthless against that particular champion, but there are still 4 other people Malz can utilize his ult on to full effect. Further, if someone is taking summoner 1 to counter Malz, that means they aren't taking a more universally/globally useful summoner such as summoner 3 ,summoner 14 or summoner 12 , which can be immensely important throughout the match.

On the topic of item slots and QSS, its almost a moot point in the games current state because its rare for games to last long enough for people to reach full build anyways. But even still, people typically try to build at least one defensive item anyways so QSS simply takes up that slot. If they build it early then it might delay their damage a little bit but its not exactly an expensive item so a good farmer will hardly notice. This on top of the fact that AD champions can build it into a damage item anyways, allowing them to have an "offensive-defensive" item thereby allowing them to build another defensive item as well.

The same as above is true for Zhonyas, btw. If you build it instead of a more standard defensive item (GA, Banshees, etc) the fact that its AP is almost irrelevant. It still provides armor for defensive purposes on top of its active, and some AD champions have abilities with AP scaling (such as Lucians W) so that buying a Zhonyas on an AD champion is entirely reasonable.

At the end of the day though, if summoner 1 doesn't remove Malz ult (and other suppression ults) then Riot should update its description to clarify its usefulness. I made a post about this very thing a day or two ago because I, as Viktor took summoner 1 against a Malz because the spells description says that it removes ALL DISABLES. If it doesn't do that, then the spell is basically misleading people into bringing a useless ability into a game. The only way to know that summoner 1 doesn't remove a certain ability is to...already have that knowledge. I shouldn't have to screw myself in a match in order to find out how a spell works.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Even then, Malz' Ult still does the Tether Dmg over the duration unless you get out of range or kill him. Just thought it was worth adding.

Vik4prez1 votes

True, but at least youd be able to try and turn the fight around. Certain champions would have an easier time, such as Viktor, since his ult stops spell casts, or an Annie if her stun was available. Even if you get out of his suppression, youre still taking a lot of damage, sure, but if you can prevent him from getting an early kill with a level 6 all in or something you can at the very least hope to hold your own in lane. As it stands now once he hits 6 you cant even risk going within flash range because he call kill you without any counter play what so ever.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Viktor's ult doesn't stop spell cats, it only stops channels. He was hi with the Silence purge of season 4.

K542 votes

RIOT already stated the reason for not having an AD item 3157 item in that AD champs have more reliable sustain item 1053

I'm paraphrasing but basically, after a lethal exchange, an AD champ can clear 2 minion waves and have full health, while an AP champ would need to recall.

Not enough spell vamp in the world to trade with life steal.

Vik4prez3 votes

They need to update summoner 1 description to clarify what it can and cannot remove.

Universal Boop2 votes

it doesn't remove warwick ulti either

YumaS2Astral3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Uundor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgT1dzAO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-31T22:42:30.151+0000)

it doesn't remove warwick ulti either

Yes, but for some reason people tend to remember more about countering Malzahar's ult when compared to Warwick. When in fact both can be countered by QSS and can't be countered by Cleanse.

HayRoss2 votes

Gangplank Landlubbers runnin' about with their cleanse and whatnot...

kaltenashes1 votes

here's a noob question

can qss/cleanse stop yasuo's ult?

Cansema2 votes

{quoted}

here's a noob question

can qss/cleanse stop yasuo's ult?

let me help you out with this. you can QSS the suppression but you must move out of it or you still take the damage..

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

{quoted}

here's a noob question

can qss/cleanse stop yasuo's ult?

It use to be able to, but it was a bug. Yasuo's ult is an airborne one like Alistar's Pummel or Malphite's Unstoppable Charge. You can go to the wiki for things cleanse and QSS work for.

Squidblimp2 votes

It's different, as a knockup is something like a Malphite ult, whereas Yasuo's ult is a suspension. Suspensions hold you up in the air, rather than you falling up and down. Suspensions work similarly to stuns, except they also make the target airborne, allowing Yasuo to ult, which is the only difference between a suspension and a stun. Nami's bubble and Yasuo's ult are both suspensions, and are reduced by tenacity and are QSSable I believe.

Squidblimp2 votes

You can QSS anything that isn't a knockup or a displacement. Yasuo's ultimate is a SUSPENSION, which is similar to a knockup except for the fact you get HELD in the air rather than falling up and down again. Other things that are suspensions include Nami's bubble and Vel'Koz's E, and these are reduced by tenacity and are QSSable.

fééd l0rd3 votes

{quoted}

here's a noob question

can qss/cleanse stop yasuo's ult?

Nope, you can't avoid being knocked up while being knocked up.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

His ult isn't a knock-up, it's a "suspension" which can be cleansed and removed

Other suspensions include Nami's bubble and Vel'kaz's E

FreshAsFebreze1 votes

An ultimate is an ULTIMATE. It would be pointless if champs could just take a SS and get rid of half of the ults.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

item 3070 Mordekaiser Urgot Malzahar Yasuo Zed Ashe Cassiopeia Fiora Fizz Heimerdinger Lissandra Leona Leblanc Morgana Nautilus Sejuani Thresh Varus Warwick Sona Trundle Skarner Annie Kennen item 3070

Oh the irony..

RyzeRework1 votes

Plat 2 doesn't realise there is 2 items that removes it r.I.p

Avios12 votes

Mikael's doesn't remove it bub, sorry.

RyzeRework1 votes

Mercuial skimitar

Eternal 7 1 votes

One does not simply cleanse , full mouth aidz being directly channeled directly into your mouth [zombie-brand-mindblown] hahah XD , i love malz though

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