If it interests anyone, camille hard counter established

How do you make short trades with someone who has a 90% slow and a 40% slow along with a pull? The only way you'll get away from him is if you use your abilities, in which case you can't use them to trade and will lose a lot more health than him

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgKHlhe6,comment-id=000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-13T02:41:10.290+0000)

Riven doesn't have to kill him in lane. There is no way in hell Darius's slow ass can force himself upon a competent Riven if he gets the advantage in lane and her damage outscales his defenses hard come late game.

Ima have to agree with swaggy, riven doesnt do much late game. Shes a pretty good split pusher with her dueling capabilities but far inferior to other late game splitters like nasus and tryndamere. Her teamfight late game is mediocre, especially against darius who has enough cc to lock her down to fighting only him, and she'll get shredded way faster than darius will.

you wish. lol riven lanes are easy as fuck even vs competent riven players you just rush tabi and autowin lane.

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Give him a shot, if you move and time abilities correctly then you will win against Darius 9/10 times.

Have fun in bronze.

Well aside from being speculative as hell... this post is also not taking into account one thing. Utility. Options. Variety of kit.

Diamond Yasuo might not be able to roflstomp a savvy diamond player of equal skill. (This is assuming skill IS equal, which is almost impossible to judge, really.) But Yasuo's kit scales absurdly hard with his gold AND gives him a lot of options for playing and winning the game aside from "1v1 my opponent and snowball". That's simply his easiest way to win. Windwall is an absurdly powerful defensive spell that can win a teamfight alone if it's used to save your team's adc from a high-value spell or series of auto attacks. Yas's ult can also win a fight, and he can do it from safely in the back line if his team has knockups... he won't need to expose himself to any risk at all. He can build into a tanky bruiser or a bursty assassin-type. He can splitpush AND teamfight. He has so much power in his kit not because it's good at one thing but because it's good at a LOT of things.

This means the enemy needs to not only be able to handle Yasuo in lane, but they need to handle everything he can do. They need to be able to handle him if he roams to assassinate other lanes. They need to handle him if he plays SUPER PASSIVE and farms to outscale them. They need to be able to deal if he abandons lane early to go hang out with his team's Wukong or Malphite and crush teamfights with the wombo combo. In short... Yas can win by gloriously outplaying you in lane. He can also win if you're not as versatile and adaptable as he is and he just does something else.

Not many champs have his level of utility, power, and to top it all off... scaling. The problem isn't that Yas needs to outplay and stomp you to win... it's that for all but the most overloaded of champs, THEY need to outplay and stomp on HIM to win. And skills being equal and Yas being built VERY well to handle his counters... that makes it pretty hard to do. 90% of the time when I see a Yasuo get shit on, it's because the Yasuo did something aggressive or stupid and got it turned on him. Yasuo's kit makes it very hard to force him into bad spots... and it lets him dictate fights. This leads to people playing against him getting incredibly frustrated and feeling somewhat helpless.

I don't think he's OP. I just think he's really poorly designed and brings a lot of frustration, bad blood and poorly-thought out interactions to the game.