Gargoyle Stoneplate

RocketRelm·Apr 6, 2017·14 votes·23,290 views

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aVpVhBG3exs/WOaywENBm5I/AAAAAAAAhzo/8lUFkMyKpbMm2pq7SwjqVtuM9QyCvjoBQCLcB/s1600/8d752e3b62a34ecca25a60435a225aba.png

I have an important question regarding this item. I'm slightly concerned by it's applications on annoying tanks that multiply based on resistances (Lolipoppy Intensifies), but I feel like supports will have a hard time buying this item (Leona, Braum). I think this item might actually be okay, though I'm not 100% sure about that.

What's on my mind right now is the fact that True Damage is not reduced by the 60% reduction, and that Cho'Gath just got a juicy 10% Bonus HP scaling on his Feast. I'm imagining a Cho'Gath activating this, bloating to 6k+ HP, and then nomming with a bigger feast than AP-Cho can muster.

The question is, how concerned should I be about this? I'm not a Cho'main, so I'm not sure about how well this will pan out.

17 Comments

Yaśuo MainApr 7, 20172 votes

I think that any champion that has true damage will be able to benefit from this item more than ones without true damage. So Cho'Gath, Darius and maybe Tank Yi will just abuse it.

I will try to see how good this is on PBE for Cho'Gath.

l Helios lApr 7, 20172 votes

Did they declare it doesn't reduce true damage? If so, beware the Fiora and Irelia mains coming back

Velzard of KozApr 7, 20176 votes

I don't think so but True Damage by definition doesn't get reduced by any means, which is why he supposes it won't get reduced.

l Helios lApr 7, 20171 votes

Fiora and Irelia just got buffed xD

Irelia BotApr 7, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Helios l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mg41zKAV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-07T00:10:44.986+0000)

Did they declare it doesn't reduce true damage? If so, beware the Fiora and Irelia mains coming back

I don't for see it being anywhere near as good for Irelia or Fiora as you seem to think it will be.

Yes it is part of their damage but it is far from being a majority of their damage output and this is a 4 second defensive steroid with a negative effect on damage.

Cho and Darius are a different story since they have a high true damage ability that is a huge part of their damage in trades and does not require an extended period of time to make use of.

In other words Irelia and Fiora will both be having a sibstantial reduction in overall damage if they use this while Darius will still be able ot get 5 stacks and ult to full effect ande Cho will actually be getting a huge boost in damage if using this with his ult.

l Helios lApr 7, 20172 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/fiora/Top http://champion.gg/champion/darius/Top http://champion.gg/champion/irelia/Top http://champion.gg/champion/Chogath/Top

You're wrong in at least one regard. In order of damage output based on true damage, it goes as follows:

Doors
Cho'Gath
Irelia
Darius

You overestimate how much true damage Darius does (about 17%). Irelia deals about 18%, Cho deals 19.99%, actual number, and Fiora deals about 23%. Think about it: Cho and Darius have ONE ability that deals true damage, and Darius has to stack bleed for his true damage to even become significant, so it does require an extended period of time (150 true damage isn't really that much without 5 stacks to double it). Cho gets a targeted nuke sure, but Irelia can deal true damage EVERY AUTO for a few seconds. Fiora could essentially do the same thing, albeit less consistently.

Based on this information, Dairus benefits the least from the item, while Fiora benefits the most. Your point about Cho is valid, but I regard Cho as little more than a relic that needs to be brought into a modern era of league, soon preferably. Odds are high that's why I didn't consider him initially. Also, the numbers are small enough to where they may not be that important, so it's really not a big deal. Doesn't really matter that Irelia deals a whole 1% more true damage than Darius, but it just makes her more favored, and Fiora favored even moreso, however minor it may be.

Hey, maybe Velkoz Will try this out. Defensive stats while ulting sounds pretty nice.

Irelia BotApr 7, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Helios l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mg41zKAV,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-04-07T05:20:12.325+0000)

http://champion.gg/champion/fiora/Top http://champion.gg/champion/darius/Top http://champion.gg/champion/irelia/Top http://champion.gg/champion/Chogath/Top

You're wrong in at least one regard. In order of damage output based on true damage, it goes as follows:

Doors

Cho'Gath

Irelia

Darius

You overestimate how much true damage Darius does (about 17%). Irelia deals about 18%, Cho deals 19.99%, actual number, and Fiora deals about 23%. Think about it: Cho and Darius have ONE ability that deals true damage, and Darius has to stack bleed for his true damage to even become significant, so it does require an extended period of time (150 true damage isn't really that much without 5 stacks to double it). Cho gets a targeted nuke sure, but Irelia can deal true damage EVERY AUTO for a few seconds. Fiora could essentially do the same thing, albeit less consistently.

Based on this information, Dairus benefits the least from the item, while Fiora benefits the most. Your point about Cho is valid, but I regard Cho as little more than a relic that needs to be brought into a modern era of league, soon preferably. Odds are high that's why I didn't consider him initially. Also, the numbers are small enough to where they may not be that important, so it's really not a big deal. Doesn't really matter that Irelia deals a whole 1% more true damage than Darius, but it just makes her more favored, and Fiora favored even moreso, however minor it may be.

Hey, maybe Will try this out. Defensive stats while ulting sounds pretty nice.

all of this happens in a 4 second window.

All of Darius's true damage comes from a single ability while Irelia's true damage come from auto attacks during a 6 second period.

Fiora's true damage comes fro procing her passive on a target which outside of her ult is not going to happen more than once every 8 to 10 seconds if the fiora is playing it right.

I do not expect either Irelia or Fiora to make this item worthwhile.

While in theory it could be great, in practice it is not something that is going to applicable.

Darius and Cho on the other hand have a form of true damage that is cast once and does not require repeated application of the damage. Darius becomed harder to kill because of this active while cho assuming that it is effected by this item's effect would be getting his 10% of his max health doubled.

l Helios lApr 7, 20171 votes

Meh. We'll know when the item launches. Again, numbers say otherwise, despite you being right about the difference in time intervals. Nothing about the item affects how fast they deal the true damage or how well they can keep up to maintain consistent true dps. It's ok though, probably not gonna win an argument about Irelia with Irelia bot. So yeah xD

RocketRelmApr 7, 20172 votes

Yeah, basically part of the concern is that this item, which has absurd stats intended to be offset by a dip in damage, is literally a damage steroid for Cho.

For some calculations, a Cho with RoA, Gargoyle, and some other 400 HP item, with 8 stacks at lvl 16 has 3512 HP, doubling to 7024. The Cho Ult does 1229 True Damage, in sum.) (For scale reference, AP Cho at 700 AP when the ultimate still had a 0.7 ratio did 1140 with the Feast)

Calculations presume that bonus HP still = (Max HP-Base HP). They might have "doubled base HP" as well, but if they didn't the Base HP is still 1732. If they didn't, I recommend they do, to reduce the ratio slightly. I'd rather they allow the doubled HP to count for most ratios, because that helps other champions with non-true damage based on their Max HP to regain some measure of threat when using this item, which I think is intended (ex: Sejuani, any Titanic Hydra user).

Though giving Darius what is functionally a 2k HP Shield while he stacks d ~~cane~~ bleed also sounds scary.

I mean, I trust it'll hit a balance point regardless, I'm just concerned it might need to be nerfed because they Ezreal'd the item.

Hungry CancerMay 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, basically part of the concern is that this item, which has absurd stats intended to be offset by a dip in damage, is literally a damage steroid for Cho.

For some calculations, a Cho with RoA, Gargoyle, and some other 400 HP item, with 8 stacks at lvl 16 has 3512 HP, doubling to 7024. The Cho Ult does 1229 True Damage, in sum.) (For scale reference, AP Cho at 700 AP when the ultimate still had a 0.7 ratio did 1140 with the Feast)

Calculations presume that bonus HP still = (Max HP-Base HP). They might have "doubled base HP" as well, but if they didn't the Base HP is still 1732. If they didn't, I recommend they do, to reduce the ratio slightly. I'd rather they allow the doubled HP to count for most ratios, because that helps other champions with non-true damage based on their Max HP to regain some measure of threat when using this item, which I think is intended (ex: Sejuani, any Titanic Hydra user).

Though giving Darius what is functionally a 2k HP Shield while he stacks d ~~cane~~ bleed also sounds scary.

I mean, I trust it'll hit a balance point regardless, I'm just concerned it might need to be nerfed because they Ezreal'd the item.

Unless this item interacts differently with true damage than exhaust then it should reduce true damage just the same as regular damage. True damage is not reduced by most forms of self mitigation like armour or magic resistance, but it is reduced by exhaust (exhausting a Vel'koz can save teammates from the death ray), so I figure this item will work just fine. This item is supposed to be a bad pick on duelists like Fiora, Irelia, Master Yi, tank Fizz/Ekko, etc. so I really don't see them dropping the ball that hard on such a critical mechanic for keeping the item balanced by instead making it a good pick for them through a loop hole, but this is Riot so you really never know what they're gonna do.

Papa AndreiApr 7, 20172 votes

20 stack chogath (A 50+minute game) has around 8-10 k health if built full tank. Which means about 1.3k damage, so with this item, for 4 seconds it could do about 1.8k-2.0k True damage.

Meep ManApr 7, 20171 votes

13 days till destruction

DaProodApr 7, 20171 votes

Im curious about Alistar ult w/ this xD 100% dmg reduction or what?

NyghtlockeApr 11, 20172 votes

I think you misunderstand what this is saying, what it means is he DEALS 60% less damage, not takes less. If you go back and look at it again, it says "Damage Dealt" not damage reduction or damage taken.