Zhoyna's Hourglass Funeral Thread

RocketRelm·Oct 30, 2015·133 votes·7,953 views

3200 GP 80 AP = 1740 GP 45 Armor = 900 GP

Gold Efficiency Before Active: 82.5%

Rest in peace, our savior from the AD menace.

208 Comments

ErockandrollOct 30, 201528 votes

item 3191 : 20 AP + up to 15 ap from passive.

item 1058 : 60 AP

This doesn't add up. Either Zonya's is getting a new item recipe, or it's losing AP compared to it's component items.

The Yetii RiderOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

: 20 AP + up to 15 ap from passive.

: 60 AP

This doesn't add up. Either Zonya's is getting a new item recipe, or it's losing AP compared to it's component items.

You're gaining the ability to turn immortal for 2.5 seconds, you can lose 15 AP.

Iceborn PippinOct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You're gaining the ability to turn immortal for 2.5 seconds, you can lose 15 AP.

Sure sure. But why the price hike? 3200g from 3000g AND nerfs to the stats provided by item 3157 .

In comparison item 3101 got buffed. 1200g from 1250g AND 50% from 40% Attack Speed + it still has +10% CDR.

The gold efficiency doesn't make any sense from a logical PoV. A lot of the tanky and mage items have gotten straight up price hikes while the marksmen items have become more gold efficient.

The Yetii RiderOct 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iceborn Pippin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AGsxu0mo,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2015-10-31T04:54:43.543+0000)

Sure sure. But why the price hike? 3200g from 3000g AND nerfs to the stats provided by .

In comparison got buffed. 1200g from 1250g AND 50% from 40% Attack Speed + it still has +10% CDR.

The gold efficiency doesn't make any sense from a logical PoV. A lot of the tanky and mage items have gotten straight up price hikes while the marksmen items have become more gold efficient.

The attack speed from Nashor's went up so that AP Kog'maw is still good.

Riot intends for marksmen to be the dominant force this season, that's why they're buffing marksmen and assassins (and nerfing mana using mid laners, so basically AP mages).

Burst is getting nerfed, and tanks are getting nerfed so that burst getting nerfed doesn't hurt them too bad. You're either playing a carry, an assassin who can kill a carry, or someone to protect the carry. Riot even stated they expect Jinx to have entire teams built around her like Kog'maw after the changes.

Reaper SeijinOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The attack speed from Nashor's went up so that AP Kog'maw is still good.

Riot intends for marksmen to be the dominant force this season, that's why they're buffing marksmen and assassins (and nerfing mana using mid laners, so basically AP mages).

Burst is getting nerfed, and tanks are getting nerfed so that burst getting nerfed doesn't hurt them too bad. You're either playing a carry, an assassin who can kill a carry, or someone to protect the carry. Riot even stated they expect Jinx to have entire teams built around her like Kog'maw after the changes.

You do know that AP kog'maw does not need to get AS right?

AP kog'maw relies on his Slow and his ULT to do damage, he's AP for a reason there...

Another season with OP ADc's is not what this game need. They're already heavily favoured, and shredding tanks left and right.

They don't need ANOTHER buff...

The Yetii RiderOct 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Seijin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AGsxu0mo,comment-id=00050001000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-31T09:46:57.356+0000)

You do know that AP kog'maw does not need to get AS right?

AP kog'maw relies on his Slow and his ULT to do damage, he's AP for a reason there...

Another season with OP ADc's is not what this game need. They're already heavily favoured, and shredding tanks left and right.

They don't need ANOTHER buff...

His ultimate is being entirely reworked into an execute, it's much less effective as a fire and forget poke now. Combine that with the Luden's nerf and other AP items nerf and Kog is more likely to rely on using his new W, which gives him double attack speed and ignores the attack speed cap for 6 seconds, to combine with Nashor's to burst someone down.

His new W gives him 7.5% of a target's max health per 100 AP on-hit as magic damage. So if he has 300 AP, his autos during his W do 21% of the target's MAX health as magic damage, before his Nashor's. If he gets 2.5 AS and 300 AP with Nashor's stacking, he can rip through someone's entire health in 1 second (21% x 5 autos is 105% max health, before Nashor's, AD, Lich Bane, etc).

Earl EulrichOct 30, 201526 votes

pretty much my thoughts...it´s really all about making AD even more oppressive across the Board this preseason.

SpectralRavenOct 30, 20153 votes

yea for sure. zhonyas wasnt too strong or anything. if anything they should have made the cost 1k for the entire thing.

OrangesilkOct 30, 20158 votes

Well, as a Malzahar player I'm just salty everyone gets a free out of my ult for 1250 while giving them relevant stats item 3140 while on the other hand I have to spend A LOT MORE for a Zhonyas.

HauntOct 30, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AGsxu0mo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-30T14:32:15.573+0000)

pretty much my thoughts...it´s really all about making AD even more oppressive across the Board this preseason.

lol what is this tumblr? Please don't pretend that AD champs are all of a sudden going to faceroll every other mids. Champs that build it generally are people that try to stay far away from you anyways, and are hard to all in because of either shields or CC, with the addition of either Heal/Barrier. This isn't nearly as bad as any of you are saying.

SkiasOct 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AGsxu0mo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-30T14:32:15.573+0000)

pretty much my thoughts...it´s really all about making AD even more oppressive across the Board this preseason.

It's just the utility they've given AD itemization. AP item sweep didn't do much for besides slightly increase the effects of some items. Nothing like what AD champs are being given.

PennsOct 30, 201518 votes

Zhonyas is like the most broken item in the game and shouldve been removed or reworked with DFG. It literally allows every AP champ to just jump into every 3v3 or 4v4 fight without thinking at all as soon as they get it. If you want to calculate like that, the active has infinite gp lol.

Zorae42Oct 30, 201553 votes

No, it's what allows squishy, immobile AP champs to survive a bruiser or assassin (ap or ad) diving 3-4 people, rolling their face on the keyboard/pressing right click, and killing everyone who isn't tanky or highly mobile.

PennsOct 30, 20153 votes

Thats what it does too, but it also allows champs like Kata, Diana or whatever else to just jump into a 4v4 at dragon and mash their keyboard without any counterplay because she has Zhonyas. As long as you dont chain CC her from the second she jumps in until she dies, she will burst your team, you try to focus her, she will Zhonyas, her team finishes 1+ kills and she can jump out again.

Zorae42Oct 30, 201511 votes

And I've seen Zed and Talon do the same and Switching Shadows/popping ult when they get in trouble. And LeBlancs do it without Zhonya's. And Lee Sin being ridiculous with his mobility. And Master Yi's just faceroll+right click into it and kill everyone because nobody can seem to hit them with a single CC before dying.

Zhonya's really doesn't make them have no counter play.

PennsOct 30, 20152 votes

Zed is untargetable for not even 1 second, Zhonyas makes you invulnerable to anything for nearly 3. Against Talon you just buy sweeper or a pink and his stealth is useless, it actually makes sense against Talon since his stealth doesnt have 15- 17 second cooldown Akali All the other champs arent really comparable to Zhonyas either, its just a toxic item..

Actually xPekeOct 30, 20151 votes

makes sense that Akali her stealth is in a limited zone, unlike Talon who also deals damage with his Ult and gains more movementspeed.

Let's not forget that.. why the fuck are you comparing those 2?

PennsOct 30, 20152 votes

Im comparing those 2 because your trinket will be up most of the time Talon uses ult. Thats not the case with Akalis W. This has nothing to do with their strengh or anything, Im just talking about cooldown..

SpectralRavenOct 30, 201513 votes

"immobile"

SrirachaLimesOct 30, 201565 votes

Um ...

Cho'Gath, Viktor, and Vladimir are not mobile by any stretch of the imagination.

I realize Vladimir has an inbuilt Zhonyas with his pool, but that doesn't make him mobile.

What are you talking about?

AuroramancerOct 30, 20154 votes

Vlad gains move speed when he casts pool, and since Rylai's is core for Vlad, everyone hit by him is relatively slower than him, making him more mobile than his targets almost 100% of the time in combat.

Universal BoopOct 30, 201511 votes

but he loses 20% of his hp for using it

AuroramancerOct 30, 20153 votes

And other champions lose mana for using their mobility. What's your point?

BârdOct 30, 20158 votes

Losing 20% of your mana pool to dodge a skillshot is one thing

Losing 20% of your health pool is enough that it could have been a better idea to tank it.

AuroramancerOct 30, 20158 votes

We're talking about Vlad, not just any regular mage with a 20% current hp health cost...

His pool has a built in 15% spell vamp feature, not including any spell vamp he would build. Top that off with increased healing from Tides of Blood and Transfusion, really not that bad of a cost to him.

Hyrum GraffOct 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

We're talking about Vlad, not just any regular mage with a 20% current hp health cost...

His pool has a built in 15% spell vamp feature, not including any spell vamp he would build. Top that off with increased healing from Tides of Blood and Transfusion, really not that bad of a cost to him.

This changes nothing about the fact that if you pay 20% hp to dodge a spell that would have only dealt 10% hp, you're not coming out on top here.

Zorae42Oct 30, 201543 votes

Ziggs Xerath Lux Anivia Annie Cassiopeia KogMaw Morgana Malzahar Syndra Veigar Velkoz Zyra

Yeah, they are

SpectralRavenOct 30, 20154 votes

[deleted]

Zorae42Oct 30, 201514 votes

Veigar, Lux, amd Annie aren't played much?

Notice how the ones you listed are still insanely annoying even without Zhonya's and the ones I listed are trash against AD assassins without one?

ploki122Oct 30, 20152 votes

Well, that argument could've been made for DFG too though. There weren't any real issues with Ziggs and Xerath using Zhonya. The problem was when peoplw ith burst used it to made their burst bigger.

Similarly, Zhonya isn't a problem on champions that aren't already oppressive, but you can't balance around the worst case scenario. You can't balance Hextech Gunblade around Katarina/Ezreal using them, because Akali/Kayle/poppy use it better. You can't balance Abyssal around Skarner/Alistar, because Diana/Ahri use it better.

Count ZubatOct 30, 201516 votes

I didn't know Vlad, Viktor and Cho'Gath are mobile champions. Holy crap, I'm still learning more surprising things about this game.

KaisadiIIaOct 30, 20157 votes

To be fair Cho'Gath is annoying with all those free dashes in his W and E.

Count ZubatOct 30, 20156 votes

Dashes on W and E? Are these some challenger level techniques? How can I do it, some special button combination?

Shrapnel ShrapOct 30, 20156 votes

As a level 5 mastery Cho main, pls teach me these spooky super secret l33t dash tricks!

Critmaster GarenOct 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

No, it's what allows squishy, immobile AP champs to survive a bruiser or assassin (ap or ad) diving 3-4 people, rolling their face on the keyboard/pressing right click, and killing everyone who isn't tanky or highly mobile.

squishy immobile ap shouldnt even get into the situation where they need zonyas active. they usually have enough range to never get caught with proper positioning.

good riddance. they should remove the item and replace it with a shield passive or something like that.

KaisadiIIaOct 30, 201515 votes

Of couse, because Vi can't use Q and R for a 1,500 range targeted gap-close that happens to make her immune to CC on the way.

SpectralRavenOct 31, 20151 votes

so why cant ads get that item as well? or are we immune to vi while the poor ap mages arent :((((

KaisadiIIaOct 31, 20152 votes

Of course, you have supports. I don't usually have a Thresh saving my ass when Vi ganks with her new fresh level 6.

PokladnicaZlaOct 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Zhonyas is like the most broken item in the game and shouldve been removed or reworked with DFG. It literally allows every AP champ to just jump into every 3v3 or 4v4 fight without thinking at all as soon as they get it. If you want to calculate like that, the active has infinite gp lol.

It doesn't allow them to go 3vs3 and 4vs4 without thinking.You press item 3157 and are immobilized for 3 sec.Enemies can just CClock after Zhonyas ends...

PennsOct 30, 20153 votes

Its still a broken item and deserves these nerfs..

Voluug13Oct 30, 201510 votes

Said no one but every salty Zed player in the world.

AninLegions777Oct 30, 20152 votes

And we will keep saying it. :P

Voluug13Oct 30, 20154 votes

Then dont get salty when people point out how obnoxious and safe is Zed's laning phase.

darkmatchwaldoOct 30, 20158 votes

Still building it vs Zed i don't care if it cost 4000g and gave no stats.

For CarthageOct 31, 20158 votes

| |------------------------------------------------------ Seeker's: 40 AP Zhonya's: 80 AP | |------------------------------------------------------ NLR: 60 AP

Where the fuck is the other 20 AP?

Are you holding out on us, Riot? Am I going to have to bring Mr. Flufflykins into this?

Return the other 20 AP or Mr. Fluffykins gets it.

http://rs880.pbsrc.com/albums/ac6/joel-leo/album%202/cute-funny-animals-01.jpg~c200

You have your ultimatum.

guguy123Oct 31, 20155 votes

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eQAPZBmwBpk/T0CsTmU6pWI/AAAAAAAAAM4/vgKVhpqhPhc/s1600/mother-god-meme.jpg

PDE5 InhibitorsOct 30, 20157 votes

Rito likes Zed.

Kitten of EvilOct 30, 20151 votes

I mean, I'll probably Kennen still Morgana use Fiddlesticks it.

RocketRelmOct 30, 201514 votes

You might still use it on champions whose kits practically 'require' the item, but that just makes the issue "These champions were directly nerfed without compensation"