To everyone who isn't an Assassin Main

RocketRelm·Feb 20, 2016·124 votes·11,122 views

Do you enjoy it when assassins are strong? Is this a fun experience for you? Does anybody actually 'like' assassins other than assassins?

315 Comments

Sir YamazukiFeb 20, 201686 votes

No, and it's not just in the case of League. I've hated assassin type classes in every game I've ever played regardless of whether they are strong or not. They normally go back and forth between oppressive or useless due to how imbalanced the class in general is.

MarshbouyFeb 20, 201627 votes

League, wow, dota2, doesnt matter, getting 2 shot from an invisible foe is not fun

RalanrFeb 20, 201619 votes

Assassins in gaming need a rework.

Edit: In pvp gaming*

HighH1Feb 20, 201611 votes

RIP Assassin's Creed

Elijah ProphetFeb 20, 20161 votes

I've never liked assassins in any game either, but simply because I don't like spending the majority of my time playing a video game hiding in a bush. Where is the fun in that?

JorenciceFeb 21, 20164 votes

Mmmmm. Its....soothing.

I'm that player everyone hates in battlefield that picks sniper and never moves.

Who might end the match 0/0/0 because I never even saw another player.

And I enjoy every second.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 20, 201610 votes

Turns out being able to 100-0 someone before they can react isn't healthy gameplay.

Sneakyy XDFeb 20, 201652 votes

When assassins are balanced, no, I don't mind them. When assassins are OP, I do mind. When assassins are UP, I do mind.

These are the same for all classes.

Death by GlamourFeb 20, 201641 votes

No i dont think any of us enjoy it

The WhamboozlerFeb 20, 201638 votes

You could kinda say that with any role... if you're losing to them, you're not having fun. Assassins just get more hate than most because if they do their job right they blow you up and slip out without a scratch. They also punish the lone-wolf mentality of many solo queue games. Splitpushing bot alone as the adc? You asked for it, dude. Facechecking dragon pit as Soraka when their team has zed and Rengar on it? Bye. They're annoying if you let them snowball, but they have an important place in the game.

Death by GlamourFeb 20, 201619 votes

Alot of them also lack any sort of counter play in solo que.

Paladin 0f LifeFeb 20, 20166 votes

Do i smell a B5?

Death by GlamourFeb 20, 20165 votes

Is thier counter play to a oneshot by talon rengar or fizz?

/shoo

Steel BlossomFeb 20, 201615 votes

btw Talon has about the weakest lane phase out of all mid laners...pick any lane bully into him and make him cry.

KaisadiIIaFeb 20, 201619 votes

Learning basic positioning skills.

Talon appearing from nowhere to instaburst you and go away unpunished only happens in your wildest dreams. In real life Talon can be zoned hard and will suffer to kill a marksman/mage (assuming he's not fed) if he wastes his ult to reach his targets; all of this ignoring the fact that you will know he has ulted because he's ult doesn't last long enough to stealth in the fog of war and go running to the enemy backline before anyone notices.

You know what's the problem? People play with the mentality that they should 1v1 anyone, at any cost, from level 1. Then you see a Lvl 6 Syndra continually exposing herself to the enemy Talon/Zed/whatever, and she dies. She does this enough times, now the enemy assassin is 6/0, and then complain because they can't stop it in teamfights. Is it true that now you can't peel your carry from that Zed? Of course, but that's what you deserve when you have fed him enough.

There is a reason why assassins stomp in lower leagues and their win rate usually go down the higher elo you are checking in. And that's the reason champions like Katarina are universally called "noobchamp" but nobody plays them in higher leagues.

I won't negate Rengar's mechanics are inherently toxic, and Zed is far more safer than any other assassin in the game, but those are edge cases and don't justify dismissing the whole role as toxic.

S3ntinelFeb 20, 20168 votes

I just want to thank you so much for your comment. I really appreciate you not blindly hating assassins because you got caught out. Have a great day and thank you again

Zero Skill TankFeb 20, 201622 votes

What assassins punish you for is having any fun in game. Brand, Xin or Nautilus - anyone really - can punish ADC that's solo pushing. But they need to put effort in it, and you can try to outplay them, so every now and than you can risk it for the biscuit - hey, maybe, just maybe you are mechanically superior enough to juke them!

Zed will just point you with mouse and tap each button once. GL juking that.

KaisadiIIaFeb 20, 201611 votes

Tell me how Xin offers more counterplay 1v1 than Zed.

Xin is a fighter/assassin.

Zero Skill TankFeb 20, 201610 votes

When Xin jumps on a marksman 1v1 he is gonna tear him apart. Just like Zed will.

The difference? Xin can jump on you from 600 units. Zed's engage range is bigger than champions vision radius.

sp441Feb 20, 20165 votes

The problem that I have with Assassins is that I often feel like I couldn't do anything against them.

When they're so fast that you need about 2 minutes of forewarning to actually be able to run away from them, when they kill you so fast that they might as well deal 9999 True Damage when they get within 500 units of you, when they're so slippery that unless you have about 4 seconds worth of CC and enough damage to sink an entire team to kill them before they run away, it stops being fun.

With Mages or Tanks, I can generally blame it on me just not dodging a skillshot properly, or not paying attention to the map. With Assassins, I feel like my mistake was booting up at all.

Not that Assassins are overpowered, mind. If you stomp them, they generally never catch back up, but it just feels so frustrating that if they get even slightly ahead, no force on Earth is going to stop them.

The WhamboozlerFeb 20, 20165 votes

Here is why this is frustrating.

Counterplay against many other roles is something you can do yourself. You can always TRY to out duel someone, dodge a skillshot, bush juke auto attacks or the like. It's a personal contest, plus or minus how fed one of you is.

Against an assassin, your survival is half your choices (not being accessible to them) and half your team's (moving together and protecting you). If you're Jinx and the enemy team has a fed Zed you need to be very careful about where you move. Granted, it's not at all impossible. Many high elo players prefer to climb as adc's because just being smart about where you go can prevent an assassin from being able to get to you. However, low elo players lack smart choices often enough, with everyone doing their own thing and not everyone knowing what's smart to do and when. So if your team catches the jungler and kills him, then half of you push mid while half of you decide it's smarter to get dragon or farm wolves... not much you can do there other than ping and hope they listen.

But yeah, assassins punish poor positioning, poor coordination and poor decisions. All of these are hideously common in solo queue, even in higher elos... though they're less common there. The rambo "I got this" mentality is everywhere in low elo games and Zed THRIVES on that. Is he safe? Yeah. But if your team is smart enough to cockblock his ult-dive there isn't much else he can do other than run away and watch you get objectives or stomp his team. Assuming he's not dead, of course.

Short version... don't blame zed... blame your teammates and yourself. He can only hang you if you give him rope.

WoonStruckFeb 20, 201622 votes

Nobody likes assassins. Not even assassin mains. Why do you think they're always so angry?

shyvFeb 20, 201612 votes

there are only a few assassins that i really hate playing against, but those are just the ones that are really broken and have little counterplay

Fizz and Zed are the only ones i really have a problem with.

for the most part, assassins are high risk high reward. if you fall behind as an assassin you're pretty much useless. but zed and fizz are too safe to be able to call themselves assassins imo. they're like.. low risk high reward.

i don't mind champs like Akali Katarina Rengar Leblanc because at least with them, if they use their gap closer offensively, it's very punishable.

AlwaysByMySideFeb 20, 201623 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XaLQuMP2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-20T01:42:51.717+0000)

there are only a few assassins that i really hate playing against, but those are just the ones that are really broken and have little counterplay

and are the only ones i really have a problem with.

for the most part, assassins are high risk high reward. if you fall behind as an assassin you're pretty much useless. but zed and fizz are too safe to be able to call themselves assassins imo. they're like.. low risk high reward.

i don't mind champs like because at least with them, if they use their gap closer offensively, it's very punishable.

LeBlanc is the safest champion whose primary role is assassin (so no Ahri), lol.

She has two gap closers, and both of them can take her back to where she started (out of harm's way) with the press of a button.

I don't personally mind LB, but she's far less punishable than even Zed or Fizz.

edit: Oh, and as for the thread: do not care. Genuinely do not give a shit. I take Cho'gath mid, and as such don't give a shit about assassins. My main role is top lane, and the champions I play have little to fear from them. When they try to kill my carry, I kill them. Easy peasy.

stealthfox94Feb 20, 20163 votes

That's funny because I think with the exception of Katarina, the last 4 champs you listed are more unbalanced than the first two.

shyvFeb 20, 20163 votes

akali is like, the most balanced she's ever been

rengar just got nerfed to hell

leblanc a lot of people find is still a huge pain in the ass but these are my opinions

LankPantsFeb 20, 20164 votes

akali is like, the most balanced she's ever been

Akali's currently the most balanced and healthy she's ever been because people have started playing her as a bruiser. Bruisers are just inherently a more balancable and healthy class than assassins.

Dusk Mane RengarFeb 20, 20164 votes

If an assassin is played like a bruiser just because he can't work like an assassin then there is a problem.

BetaDude40Feb 20, 20166 votes

Tell that to Ekko

Ariel the CruelFeb 21, 20162 votes

Ekko I'm a tank. Get it right.

FalconPawwwwnchFeb 20, 201611 votes

Assassins at least interact with you

Champs like Lux and Ziggs stay 5 lightyears away the entire game and never interact

Just waveclear endlessly and poke

Popstar AhriFeb 20, 20169 votes

I only find LB, Kat and fizz annoying the rest Im fine with, knowing how to deal with their kits, decision makings and knowing what to build in a situation ur in

Death by GlamourFeb 20, 201618 votes

You think talon and rengar are fun to play against?!?

missinggraveFeb 21, 20162 votes

Pink wards....learning to counter pick......both being useless when behind like a healthy assassin should......Both having an engage OR an escape but not both....a single hard CC killing them even by pure luck......fam I don't like them either but you need to at least be fair

Malicious MetalFeb 20, 20169 votes

I actually like playing against assassins.... In the laning phase that is, seeing that I main a prime example of an anti-assassin. BUUUUT I hate it when they're able to eviscerate my squishies even though they've been put so far behind in lane :/

Arsenic SulfurFeb 20, 20168 votes

No. I hate assassins in every competitive game because they have no grey area. They are either overpowered to hell and back, or are more useless than an AP Caitlyn

FortisDominusFeb 20, 20165 votes

feast or famine in other words? thats a common trait among every assassin.

M0b1usFeb 20, 20168 votes

I don't mind it when assassins are strong. What I dislike is when they are strong and have very little that can stop them. Example, I never thought Akali was absolutely unfun to fight against. Sure, her damage WAS absurd, but when team fights started, she became a lot easier to deal with. That is because she can dash to an enemy, but then has no way to get out. She also doesn't serve much of a purpose outside of killing squishies. So if you were able to contain her in lane, her impact would be noticeably worse.

An example of a champ I absolutely hate facing is Zed. Even when he isn't strong, I find him extremely unfun to play against. He can kill squishy targets easily, no harm in that. That is his job after all. What I completely dislike is the combination of all of the following on top of his assassination power. Decent wave clear, INCREDIBLE split pushing power, and incredibly easy to escape from bad situations. If a Zed ever gets behind, the good ones will simply split push. Even when behind, Zed has a very strong 1v1 match up, so he basically forces your team to make a decision. Either try to take an objective or win a team fight now, or send someone to deal with him. If you decide on the latter, then you have to make that call the moment you see Zed split pushing. If you hesitate, Zed's additional AD bonus can easily allow him to take a tower. On the other hand, if Zed gets ahead, then it becomes difficult to punish his assassination attempts. Unlike Akali, Zed can use his W before ulting on his target, press Q+W then one auto, W out and then the ult finishes the kill. So your counterplay options are to either lock him down when he ults, or have a QSS or zhonyas. The only risk in that scenario Zed has to deal with is the potential of being lock downed when he goes in. That window of counter play opportunity is maybe a second. If you have a Zhonyas or QSS, Zed still gets away and gets some damage on you, but doesn't kill you. Still Zed basically traded his ult for your item active. That will hurt his assassination potential next fight, but it also stops you from having that crucial zhonyas/QSS.

Basically, Zed is a champion that feels bad to play against because when you beat him in lane, he can still split push amazingly. When he gets ahead, he is a super safe assassin. Either way, it feels like there is very little you can do other than hope that the player on Zed is just bad at making calls and tries to team fight when he is 1/10.

Yas is between Akali and Zed to me. He has clear weaknesses that can be exploited and clear strengths. One thing I dislike is how people think that using E on a minion to close a gap, press Q after E ends to land some poke, then using E to get back out is hard. Just a preference thing. The other thing I dislike is his windwall. It is so stupidly easy and forgiving to block a projectile with and there are plenty of projectiles that it shouldn't stop. When I can use windwall in the OPPOSITE direction and still block a projectile, that is just wrong. It gives Yas so much time to use it. As long as the projectile doesn't hit Yas, windwall can stop it. Windwall should work where the wall itself is formed at the tip of the blade and not on Yas's model. That way he actually has to direct the windwall and can't just use a panic reaction. Other than that, if he gets behind, he is easy to deal with. If he gets ahead, he does his job well. When I outplay a Yasuo, it feels good because I know that I just made it harder for him to have an impact on the game. When I get outplayed by a Yasuo, I don't feel cheated because that is what he does and I know that he will have to put himself in a position where I have a clear window to outplay him later on.

To sum everything up, when counter play is present and clear, I don't mind at all when assassins are strong. When counter play is limited to 1 small opportunity, then I hate when that assassin is strong.

JasiwelFeb 20, 20166 votes

I enjoy them when there are enough opportunities to fight against them. While many insist they were weak in Season 5, I think they were best balanced during that time simply because your team could often make them risk everything to kill you as a carry. Or if you are the Tank/Fighter, you could actually stop them just before they 100-0'd your ADC. Talon/Zed aren't fun to play against as a carry because your window to do something depends on your ability to buy an item or have perfect positioning - which sounds okay until you realize the demands to play against them are a lot higher than they are as them.

In other words, I feel like I'm depending more on their inability than my own ability, which feels bad.

TeCoolMageFeb 20, 20166 votes

Assassins compared to everyone else is like comparing being mentally healthy to being bipolar. Even if you balance it, heck, even if you're feeling positive more time than negative, trust me it's not healthy.

High risk high reward just encourages people to have inflated heads after succeeding in that one moment where everything matters. It doesn't have the mercy of statistical odds letting them fail eventually if they have to keep trying, like with supports or tanks, they just succeed once (one combo) and they don't need to deal with risking their lives any more, while a tank or support may need to engage or peel multiple times when the distance between the teams increases or decreases against them. Even if they are balanced to fail a lot due to high risk, the fact they're not poke reliant and don't have to rely on multiple successes makes them look better in comparison, while an assassin can just stack all the facto stat give them an advantage, and do one combo to get a kill.

And that's not even touching on champions who have a high reward but lower risk.

DexterousGeckoFeb 20, 20166 votes

The only thing I truly hate in this game are champions that are basically impossible to itemize for. You have to out pick them in champion select. Master Yi, Fiora, Vayne are basically kill them faster than they can get their damage out or you're fucked. Most assassins I'm fine with.

RalanrFeb 20, 20161 votes

Uhh... item 3110 and item 3143 are items to ustilize against attack speed heavy champions like MasterYi . There is an itemization for them, just not a high amount of it.

BiscuitWitchFeb 21, 20164 votes

Master Yi's ult prevents all slows, and this includes attackspeed slows. The more you know.

Tribbles FoxfolkFeb 20, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Do you enjoy it when assassins are strong? Is this a fun experience for you? Does anybody actually 'like' assassins other than assassins?

As long as they aren't strong in lane (Zed), strong in teamfights (Zed), strong in every patch (ZED), and completely impossible to fight without being a fed-ass assassin as well (KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!), then yes, I'm OK with assassins being strong picks.

Rengar is stopped by CC and pink wards. Red Trinket can also do some wonders, but he's usually in your asshole by the time you see him with Red...

Talon is a one-trick pony: R-E-W-Q-Hydra and pray you killed them. If you didn't, then you're now useless, congrats. Also stopped by Pinks.

Fizz has one of the (if not THE) single most unbalanced spells in the game: Playful/Trickster. No other champion gets to have a free double Zhonya's that deals high base damage + 90% of AP and SLOWS, all in a pretty OK-sized AoE. Other than that, his kit is all just a means to make his E work, so he could be argued as one-trick, though this is pretty false because of all the different variations that have drifted in and out of the metagame since his existence. (AD Assassin, AP Assassin, AD Bruiser, AP Bruiser, Hybrid Tank, Hybrid Assassin just off the top of my head)

LeBlanc is THE Queen of Burst Damage. Q-W-E-Ignite at level 3 will almost always kill your opponent if you've been properly harassing them since level 1. Yeah...You can probably guess my opinion of her. I suppose she gets shut out by other, higher-burst AD assassins...Assuming they ever get enough gold to finish Hexdrinker and LB doesn't have any magic pen of any kind.

Yasuo can go screw himself. This guy is the League of Legends equivalent of Alchemist from Dota 2: Stupidly OP in pubs, still sees competitive play, deals STUPID amounts of damage early on for how incredible his mid- and late-game are, and is stupidly hard to kill a lot of the time.

Lee Sin counts because of his absurd damage and high safety. Screw this champ. I wish Riot would just nerf him and say "You know what? This champ IS broken. We acknowledge this and are going to immediately hobble him. We don't care about the outrage because game health is more important." Unfortunately, Riot gives in to all the "Lii Song Mayns" that demand he not be nerfed EVER without receiving double the power lost in buffs.

Nobody else really comes to mind that I have a comment on.

FantasySniperFeb 20, 20165 votes

It's fun, but only if they have a punishable kit.

Khazix Talon in my game? That's fun.

Fizz Akali Zed Ekko Yasuo in my game? Not fun.

ArtMurderFeb 20, 20164 votes

I don't typically play assassins anymore. I used to play fizz or talon a lot when i first started but i felt like it was too easy. Now i've just decided if i'm going to have fun i have to play a champ that has low risk. Because if i die that could be the end of the game for me.

Ironically enough the most "Low risk" champs i can play as are assassins. Insane mobility. Can just run away from any cc or anything that could stop them. Not only that but they shred towers and can destroy anyone including tanks. It's so easy to play as an assassin now. It's the only class i can have fun with anymore because i just don't die that much.

SirHeavyScrotumFeb 21, 20164 votes

The problem with Assassins is that they make everyone on either team irrelevant except for themselves and anyone who has the power to stop them. Let's take a normal team comp in a normal meta (not the season 6 triple Bruiser Marksman bullshit). The primary source of late game DPS is the solo squishy ADC. Either the assassin on one team can do their job and blow up the enemy adc before the fight lasts too long, or someone can stop them from doing that. That's all that matters.

One time I saw a typical "I hate Yasuo" thread during the Warlord's Bloodlust Riots of Preseason 6 and someone summed it up nicely. "I hate Yasuo because he makes the rest of his team irrelevant. He's either 1v5 carrying the game and his team is irrelevant or he's completely useless and nothing anyone on his team does matters because it's a 4v5." That's basically how I feel about assassins. Either they can do their job and we win or they can't and we lose. They make the whole game all about them. It's a really greedy way to play the game and isn't really well suited for team based play. Fuck assassins.

AlsekFeb 21, 20164 votes

Being killed and not even being allowed to react isn't actually a fun mechanic.

This isn't ONLY a problem with assassins ( Annie Poppy ) but they've traditionally been the worst offenders. ( Rengar Leblanc Zed Talon )

I don't think i'll ever really like assassains but I realize they fill an important role. I just feel like they need to have an appropriate balance of high risk and reward and not all of them do. Leblanc

AlëkFeb 21, 20163 votes

I don't think anybody ENJOYs it when when any role aside from their main role is strong. People whined when tanks were strong. They whined when ADC's were and still are strong. They whined when mages were strong. They whined when supports were so strong they were being played mid and top. People whine about any champ that they consider hard to deal with.

Brenticus12Feb 20, 20162 votes

That can be said for a lot of classes.

Do people like when megatanks are running around? When they do ridiculous amounts of damage while soaking up damage AND locking you down? Nope, infact people were wishing we had assassin meta back when cinderhulk was released. Do people enjoy waveclear mages that stall out games for so long that you could've been playing 2 or even 3 games in that timespan? Nope. Do people enjoy when hypercarry ADCs with long range were meta? Nope.

No one likes whatever is strongest in a particular meta unless you're an avid player of said strong picks.