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Every iteration of warlords bloodlust has been toxic as hell.

Dasdi96··91 votes·3,336 views

The original wb restored 15% of any critical strike, and instantly yasuo and tryndamere became broken because it gave them insane sustain. It was hotfixed so it only works against champions. This caused it to only be viable on champions that have natural crit in their kit. It was reworked to just give you lifesteal based on how low you are, up to 20%. It made bot lane so uninteractive because adcs had ridiculous sustain, that they nerfed it shortly after so it is inly 1/4 effective against non champions for ranged and 1/2 for melee. Even then, it was still op on adcs like cait and draven as they use their ridiculous damage and cait now started rushing triple crit due to not having to buy lifesteal. However, it could be mitigated to an extent by armor. It was just a "stat stick" keystone. Earlier this season, riot reworked again to something charge based, where if you move around and attack you get stacks. At 100 stacks, your next auto lifesteals 5-40% of your ad unmitigated, and can be boosted by crit with no penalty and also gives a massive burst of movespeed. It also has no penalty for ranged champions. It usually triggers every 4-6 seconds. Again champs like draven and cait abused this to no end as it gives them so much free survivability. Cait especially as she continued to rush triple crit to obtain massive damage since she doesn't have to buy lifesteal. Draven was also bad as he now usually buys death dance, which may give him just enough time to get another warlord proc, giving him 300+ hp in addition to the lifesteal he has. This combined with lifesteal makes him survive fights that he should have died in 3-4 seconds ago. However, the biggest abuser was jhin; since he has extremely high ad and his 4th shot is a guarnteed crit. I have seen a jhin heal 1200 off of just 1 auto attack and he had 700 ms after that, escaping what should have been a death. tldr: warlords shouldn't have even existed as copious amounts of free sustain can't be balanced at all.

56 Comments

Kairoptra45 votes

My question is: Why are you complaining now? The entire runes and masteries system is getting reworked, so why bother?

Votable Jester15 votes

They're probably going to put in something similar, like how they have for Thunderlord's and Stormraider's (and I think more).

koshkyra4 votes

The TLD replacement is literally the exact same thing as TLD but i think with different numbers and wording

Skorch3 votes

Thats cause it was voted the most wanted keystone to return.

Fairyfleur9 votes

I think they also made it so that it has to be unique abilities that activate it, not multihits.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

TLD is also far more spaced out in terms of CD. At a glance, new TLD is more powerful. Yet it doesn't account for the copious amounts of chip-damage you could build up by constantly hitting 2-3 abilities in lane. While new TLD might be stronger, getting an extra 30-40 damage per trade in lane added up. Fast.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

Lane wise yes but after that the new one will only increase one-shots.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

So that way Burst Champions can burst someone better every 50 seconds? Oh nooooo... /s.

ganggoink1 votes

It's a lot fairer version, now orianna, Lux and syndra players actually have to work for the tld proc :)

koshkyra1 votes

Lux so ill just auto them twice then

Toxic Memes1 votes

iirc, it's 3 _unique _ attacks so I'm not sure if it could work level one if you e+auto because you would have e damage, auto damage and passve damage for example.

koshkyra1 votes

I meant e+auto+auto

Votable Jester1 votes

Lux would probably still be able to proc it with just E+auto. Her passive will likely still count as a unique hit (and I personally think it should).

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

Except now things like DOT dont proc it. It has to be individual spells/aa's. (3 cass E's would still proc it for instance)

deadlychuck10 votes

Maybe lifesteal is actually the broken stat, not spell vamp

Spank the Fox1 votes

Spell vamp is even more broken, what are you on about?

And it's not just because Vlad and Swain would abuse the shit out it, either.

deadlychuck12 votes

Because exchanging mana for health, was broken, but getting free health from a < 1 sec zero cost CD (for most of the game) for significantly larger amounts is perfectly reasonable.

Cowseed10 votes

But.... it's being removed.....

Why write this now?

Muzét8 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8LcmFmPi-all-this-complaint-around-ardent-censer

You forgot talking about the synergy with Firecannon (which makes it recharge faster) and Ardent Censer (same goes since faster auto = lower recharge time)

Thilmer7 votes

This is just another example of "lifesteal completely brakes the balance but is still in the game for some reason".

But they had to remove spellvamp from ítems because "it's too good on Vladimir". Much duh... [slayer-jinx-unamused]

abbbez1 votes

The main reason why they removed that item because it was basically only vlad that bought that item and hey wanted Vlad to have more inbuilt sustain so he wouldn't have to buy that item. Now if they would have given him more base sustain the spell vamp item would be too good of an item for him so they had to remove it.

EkyonKun2 votes

Might I suggest that, PERHAPS, a simpler solution would add a passive to Vladimir that makes spell vamp X% less effective on his Q so he can't abuse it, but other mages have the option to buy it? I mean, they did something similar with Kalista You could even give it small buffs if you're worried no one will get it afterward. But no. One champion, arguably two Swain had to ruin it for everyone else.

I'm sorry for the salt, but I still miss Will of the Ancients.

LichKing2343 votes

Fiddlesticks ? Morgana ? Rumble ? Akali (a few times i seen it but this one varies) Katarina (again varies but she did also use spell vamp) Swain

these champs could effectively use will of ancients not just vlad i think they removed it cause of the vlad rework and his already pretty good substain hell he had to be nerfed after his rework they knew he was going to be a problem after his RW so they saved themselves a headache and removed the item.

abbbez1 votes

Don't really know why I got downvoted, since that was what I thought were the reasoning behind riots action

Well let's see

Will of the ancient was never a great pick for Fiddlesticks , since there were other more optimal items for him. So buying Will of the ancient on him weren't necessarily bad just that there were other better items to buy, that suited him.

For Morgana It's basically the same as Fiddlesticks , not bad but there are better options.

I guess some people liked this item on Rumble but it was a situational item for him, can't deny that.

item 3146 Outshines Will of the ancient in every way on Akali so there were no real reasoning for people to buy Will of the ancient. And since it gave you the same amount of ap and the same spellvamp PLUSS AD and Life steal there were no good reason to get it over the other. And the ones that did buy it was probably back when it gave an aura spellvamp to all team mates which was waay back.

Same with Katarina as on Akali Gunblade was always a better option.

Swain was part of the Mage rework. In that rework riot gave him reliable sustain, doing so that instead of healing for X% value of Y damage dealt to just simply heal for the same amount regardless of the damage dealt. So he would be able to sustain even if he deal less damage.

And here's the thing. People don't like changes. Most of us can only see the bad parts, what we will lose through changes and gets blinded on what we will gain with the removal of spell vamp. So what did we actually lose with this item? Build diversity? some fun elements to the game? Well yeah, we did lose a few of those elements but look at what we gained.

(Just to clarify. I'm only counting Will of the ancient as an spellvamp item since item 3146 is still basically the same item as before)

Not a Siren1 votes

has anyone forgot about Mordekaiser ? he rushed spellvamp too

abbbez1 votes

Yeah, everyone seams to forget about him. But lets look at him

After Mordekaisers rework Will of the ancient was still in the game, They had reworked him into as they called him a juggernaut. Right now he's still sorta of a juggernaut but you just simply build him raw damage. In the beginning some people may have built Will of the ancient on him but sooner or later people would notice that if you wanted some form of spell vamp item 3146 would be a much better choice because it simply was a better item for him.

So another example of a character that used to build spell vamp where item 3146 were a better option.

Thilmer2 votes

{quoted}

The main reason why they removed that item because it was basically only vlad that bought that item and hey wanted Vlad to have more inbuilt sustain so he wouldn't have to buy that item. Now if they would have given him more base sustain the spell vamp item would be too good of an item for him so they had to remove it.

They removed an ítem of the game because 1 of the 139 champions can abuse it? We could remove every ítem from the game with that way of reasoning.

abbbez1 votes

(I'm not saying that it's a good reason.)

So what you are saying is that every item are abused by only one single champ, and not multiple?

LordGeovanni3 votes

On Marksmen. Fighters would like a workable version please.

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

ADCs should not have sustain, period. If they get instagibbed in a fight, too bad so sad, them's the breaks.

waiting for WoW3 votes

{quoted}

ADCs should not have sustain, period. If they get instagibbed in a fight, too bad so sad, them's the breaks.

ADC should have sustain if they opt into it by buying sustain damage items like BOTRK or bloodthirster. The problem has always been when they get free sustain while also being able to build full crit and damage items.

Eternal Torment2 votes

Honestly...Jhin and caitlyn both could heal for that amount.

I remember vandiril making a Video where jhin and caitlyn respectively healed for 2.4k health. The only Problem with jhin was that those numbers could be achieved with literally just his corebuild, except pack any lifesteal item in replacement to his boots.

Mens Hair Club2 votes

i miss when it was just charge up for lifesteal

one of the best Nasus games I ever played was warlord super healing Nasus

SanKakU2 votes

I don't understand why you seem to think this is such a problem keystone. The only unusual champion I get this on at the moment is Sona. Not saying I can't come up with more odd champion choices, but I play a lot of support and jungle, and Grasp of the Undying seems to do a lot more work very often than Warlord's Bloodlust does. Of course, I'm loving Bloodlust on Wukong, and Shaco, and it seems okay so far on Nocturne...and obviously it's solid on someone like Jhin, and I haven't really been playing Caitlyn after her nerfs so I won't comment on keystones for her but Draven? I feel like Fervor of Battle is always going to be better for him. I don't own him, so maybe I don't know what others know, but champions with AS boosting abilities get a lot of value out of Fervor.

Eedat2 votes

I don't understand the point of this thread considering it will be removed in the preseason

GrReaper964 votes

As a reminder that trying saving something that inheritly is a failure usually just leads to frustration. You'd think Rito had learned their lesson after Koggy.

Meep Man2 votes

It should only be able to trigger against champions like Grasp to be honest. Being able to trigger it against anything just makes it far too easy to obtain sustain. Making it champion only would require interaction for it to be useful.

Vectros2 votes

It should do a lot less for ranged. Like, 10% for ranged, 40-50% for melee. Cause the melee will end up taking hits when they go to use it, while ranged can do it safely.

Kaìju1 votes

Here's my take on it. I'm an asshole. I like to build stupid shit if I can get away with it. One of those builds was lifesteal heavy. I'm talking three life steal two crit. Think Bork, BT, Merc, on top of IE and Hurricane. That shit was fun to me, with that on top of runes and masteries I could have like 52% life steal and still be criting. But now everyone has a ton of sustain and that build does not work even as a joke. "Oh yeah I heal for 25 life a hit with my 21% life steal, I'll trade with him four times, heal to full, and do it again." And suddenly he (whoever) has full HP too despite me building into it specifically and he just has Warlords and Dorans. I like the life steal build, it's my niche fun build, but Warlords kills it because it's pointless to stack lifesteal since they heal just as much as me in lane when I have life steal runes and masteries on top of building it.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I call bullshit. Warlord's is laughable early on. Sona's W does more.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Laughable? Ever played bot with or against it? Corki mid? That sustain is broken. Ofc it does require you to actually move around with it which is quite the challenge for the majority of boards members.

Kaìju1 votes

Thank you for knowing my pain.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Originally it was taken by Yasuo and Tryndamere because it gave attack speed when procced as well. It was permanent free lifesteal and attack speed if you had the 100% crit to access it.

zaire901 votes

So thats why people get warlords on jhin I wanted to know why but I just stuck with Deathfire until I figured out why

XxDRAGONsAK47xX1 votes

Naw dude, it's totally balanced!

Its not like ADCs can be assassins and tanks! That's soooooooooooo crazy!

Oh wait...

waiting for WoW1 votes

They should honestly just remove it altogether and move stormraider's surge(spellslingers surge) into the ferocity tree, and create a brand new keystone for cunning.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Ok so first of all:

First of all: it's going away really soon, since Runes Reforged, so why complain now? http://dppl.org/assets/images/resized/57e293eb07764481/gary_shrug_450_344.png

Second: You think Warlord's is bad? Wait for Runes Reforged [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

DJMason881 votes

Runes reforged is like, 2 and a half months away. That isn't "really soon", that's like 5 patches.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

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