Step 1) Release Feral Flare

Penta Penguin·Jan 31, 2016·69 votes·3,481 views

Step 2) Remove it because it's too strong / boring Step 3) Release the same item again but 'balanced' as Devourer Step 4) 'Re-balance' Devourer becaues it was so OP that Vayne and Kayle were the top junglers Step 5) Release new Guinsoo making the same mistake a 3rd time but for laners and no stacking Step 6) Xin'xiao gets mysterious new and shiny AD scaling on his heal on top of the AP scaling, and why not extra critical damage while we're at it Step 789) ?????????????

Hello???

Why is Riot having so much trouble with On-hit/Attack Speed champions and items?

59 Comments

Ariel the CruelJan 31, 201636 votes

Why is Riot having so much trouble with On-hit/Attack Speed champions and items?

Ezreal

ChaosThiefJan 31, 201621 votes

Ah yes, our favorite explorer, the destroyer of jungle items.

YumaS2AstralJan 31, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mZQsYRzx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-31T16:00:50.094+0000)

I wonder why Rit doesn't just change Ezreal instead of letting him ruin every jungle item

Ez dePazJan 31, 201610 votes

They should just rework Ez into a jungler so he can explore the rift? Why not also take away his mini map as well, it's fitting from lore prescriptive.

And while we are at this amazing reworking, make lee sin's vision range nonexistent. The blind monk isn't very blind with two spells that can reveal.

Hello I am BirdFeb 1, 20164 votes

I thought the point was reveling them through hearing rather than sight.

StratavotisFeb 1, 20163 votes

this would actually be really flavourful... sink rek sai is generally blind while digging, why not just make that be lee sin's thing too. he would be able to see stealth champs through their sounds, but always have reduced vision.

MhihnjFeb 1, 20161 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrSihRXTrq4

SaltincFeb 2, 20161 votes

amazing

Meep ManFeb 1, 20161 votes

MasterYi Jax

Ariel the CruelFeb 1, 20161 votes

KogMaw

ErockandrollJan 31, 201624 votes

{quoted}

Hello???

Why is Riot having so much trouble with On-hit/Attack Speed champions and items?

The original problem with Devourer and feral flare is the infinite scaling created the AFK farming patterns that they didn't like. I originally though of that as an over statement, "Why would I worry so much about staying ahead of my opponent when I would out scale them eventually?" Then it occurred to me that Devourer had to race against other Devourer Junglers. Which is why the AFK play patterns came up whenever Devourer was Goto.

As for sated and ranged champs. Kayle was a thing, But I really thought of Devourer Vayne as a gimmick. And most of the time, I don't even thing these champions were Jungling. They just took the item, and struggled to stack it. But the real reason I think for the range nerf was the introduction of Kindred. Or more or less the notion that Riot couldn't keep ADC's out of the Jungle, so they balanced around that.

As for rage blade, I'd probably agree that the balance is off, but it's in the right direction. It gives AS hybrid champs a strong tool, which was designed to compete with the hydra items.

All that aside, I don't actually hear anymore complaints about Devourer anymore. Considering they nerfed just about every item that synergized with it. (Rage blade is the only strong one right now)

But as for why Riot has trouble with AS. I actually think that's just us complaining. These AS scalers are designed to do damage, and we just complain if they are actually allowed to do their job.

ParoeJan 31, 20165 votes

Step 1) Re add feral flare Step 2) Feral flare can only proc 1 per 3 seconds, and gets a stack from all creatures Step 3) feral flare can proc 1 additional time per 1.0ASP Step 4) Feral flare litterally is just a ward generator Step 5) Profit

StephenizgodFeb 1, 20161 votes

Step 6) Scrap this and somehow incorporate it as the 4th 3-hit passive on next champion.
Step 7) Profit again.

KrigjerJan 31, 20163 votes

I'm convinced at this point that they're purposely making certain champions or items OP just to keep the game fresh.

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20162 votes

Lmao...no one even builds Devourer or plays any on hit champs in high elo/LCS.

When is the last time you saw Xin, Yi or Jax in the LCS? Or Devourer at all?

Troll post.

The Ginger NingaJan 31, 201620 votes

You do understand that most people aren't in the LCS or high elo, don't you?

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20162 votes

So you wanna balance around the low elo kids?

LatetotheRaceFeb 1, 20163 votes

Let's face it mate. The lcs is soooo damn boring to watch. They could probably use some one trick ponies with devourer.

The Bíg TicketFeb 1, 20162 votes

Of course it is boring to watch.

It is still the game played at its highest level, so probably a better indicator to balance around than the Bronze kids who let a Yi farm his Devourer and then can't save any form of cc for him "OMG RAGEBLADE SO OP".

LatetotheRaceFeb 2, 20161 votes

When literally nothing happens for 20-30 minutes there is so much skill involved it's tantamount to having no skill. They do nothing but brainlessly fair until they're all about the same power, they then proceed to dance around dragon, blue buff, mid, where ever that may be, and who ever wins that fight wins the game. "Highest level" play indeed.

The Bíg TicketFeb 2, 20161 votes

You are right, the level of LCS is nothing compared to the level your Silver V ranked games are played on.

Also not every region plays as boring as NA; in EU, CN and KR teams actually play to win.

Penta PenguinJan 31, 201631 votes

"Buff Jax Please"

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

TransgressorJan 31, 20164 votes

Who gives a shit about LCS...

A group of 10 weebs playing against eachother on a custom game in front of an audience, does not hold a candle to the actual game.

If you want to balance around high level of play, there are divisions for that. LCS, not so much, especially after watching NA's performance today, NRG 15-0 TSM.

LOL

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20162 votes

Who gives a shit about silver kids getting destroyed by Sated Yi, Xin or Jax? None of these champs are a problem at decent elo.

TransgressorJan 31, 20162 votes

I agree with this.

PæanFeb 1, 20161 votes

The people that main those Champs are. Like cowsep. But yeah its mainly a coordination and lack of teamwork issue that is prevalent at low levels.

LatetotheRaceFeb 1, 20162 votes

Think about it though, if it's only the low tiers then high tiers won't give a damn if they nerf it. What an interesting thought....

KarKzzFeb 1, 20162 votes

It's funny, because you are plat-elo, and you goes 12 - 3 every game with him. I guess it isn't a decent elo then :D

The Bíg TicketFeb 1, 20161 votes

It isn't. Low Plat is the worst elo you could possibly be at.

KillerKellJan 31, 20162 votes

Season 6, Week 1 Day 1.

Jax Top.

In a Win, at that. Lane Opponent was Mundo.

Next question.

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20161 votes

Played 2 times by the weakest region in the World. 2 games out of? 20? 30? Amount of Jax picks in EU: 0 Amount of Jax picks In KR: 0 Amount of Jax picks in CN: 0

Diananmen SquareJan 31, 20162 votes

Are you seriously comparing LCS/LCK with SoloQ?

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20161 votes

Looking at the game being played at its highest level is a pretty solid way to determine what is strong and what not. Even if you only check high elo soloq you will almost never see Xin, Jax or Yi or any other Devourer jungler.

KillerKellJan 31, 20162 votes

So we agree... he HAS been played THIS SEASON in Professional Play. And he has WON.

We can also agree he isn't 100% Pick/Ban, which is good because that would be a 100% sign of him being brokenly OP.

So what we have is a Champion in the right Comps that works. Or, in other words, a well balanced Champion.

And this is a problem... why, exactly?

The Bíg TicketJan 31, 20161 votes

???

Do you even read the threads you comment on? The kids here are crying about how op Devourer/Rageblade champs are to which I replied they are not rofl.

KillerKellFeb 1, 20162 votes

You took the stance of 'proving' Jax isn't strong because he's not played in Pro Level Play.

Except... he is.

I'm not countering those talking about Devourer/Rageblade is OP... it's only OP if you let them hit you, where CC and Communication come in handy.

So your specific argument was that Jax isn't OP because he's not played at Pro Levels... but he is, in the right Comps.

Is he, with Devourer and Rageblade, OP at Low Elo. Yes, because they don't communicate and utilize effective CC... which is why they are in Low Elo. Plenty of Bronze OP that aren't OP at Pro Level.

The combination of Sated/Rageblade is huge, but Pros know how to mitigate that as a TEAM so it's not nearly as effective at Pro Play... so using that to debunk them doesn't really work.

You went off tangent, said something stupid in "When was the last time you say Xin, Yi, Jax in LCS Play?" when obviously Jax had just been played. You got called on it. Deal with it.

You tried to add something that gave 0 merit to your stance, AND you were wrong about it. That's what I'm calling out, regardless of the items.

The Bíg TicketFeb 1, 20161 votes

Lmao...dude pls.

Don't know what you are talking about. Jax was picked in 2 out of 100+ pro games this year and it was in toplane so he didn't even build Devourer. Your post has nothing to do with the topic. You are just trying to twist my words. My argument was no one builds Devourer or plays any on hit champs like Yi, Jax or Xin in high elo or LCS which is true exact for 2 Jax games in the first week of NA LCS, the weakest region in the world. Then you tell me Jax was played which means he is fine...so??? That's exactly what I am telling these guys. He is not broken, nor is any of the other champs who build Rageblade/Devourer.

KillerKellFeb 1, 20163 votes

Jax isn't broken. Rageblade isn't broken. Sated isn't broken. We agree upon these things. But the COMBINATION of these things IS broken... Pros just don't let games go long enough for the combination to be reliably completed so you don't see it. So it's broken in a Meta where it can't be reliable used.

Penta PenguinFeb 1, 20162 votes

"Jax never gets played in high-elo, scrubs!!!!!!"

"Those times he did don't count..."

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

The Bíg TicketFeb 1, 20161 votes

"No one builds Devourer or plays any on hit champs in high elo/LCS"

That's what I said, learn to quote correctly. The 2 times Jax was picked in LCS he went top and didn't go Devourer. And again, it is 2 out of 100+ competitive games this season and those were in the first weeks were even pro teams still figured stuff out.

So Jax was played 2 times (0 with Devourer) and Xin and Yi 0 times in pro play and their pick rates in high elo soloq are abysmall, they are only played by mains.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 1, 20161 votes

"No one builds Devourer or plays any on hit champs in high elo/LCS"

except for when they do, those times don't count?

ChaoticPineconeFeb 1, 20161 votes

I dont think ive seen anyone build Devourer in the LCS/LPL/LCK except when UoL tried (and failed miserably) with Kayle mid.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 1, 20161 votes

In a thread about Feral Flare and Devourer, you mention Jax was played top without Devourer. Okay, a bit off-point, but sure.

And Zion (Darshawn) was always a Jax player. I remember him playing Jax and solocarrying games back when he was on Coast, when nobody else played Jax and he was on one of the worst teams in the LCS. He is in a similar spot now - nobody really plays Jax except him. Similar Shy and Shyvana top. Faker and Olaf/Irelia mid. And now GBM and ZIlean mid.

So at best, Jax is a niche pick. For one team. Who played him once to success.