Why dont Minions activate Cait traps?

Eedat·Dec 17, 2016·72 votes·3,004 views

boxes, saplings, and + + traps all get activated by minions.

Why don't Cait's? Why is Cait allowed to literally wall off an entire lane? Even under her enemies' tower lol. Its real fun trying to maneuver around in a third of a lane getting bullied by a 650 range ADC. If you ever step on a single one you get smacked by a massive crit followed by her E then another massive crit. Then her support CC's you for free while she drops another trap right under your feet.

Much fun.

58 Comments

fuffychanDec 18, 201617 votes

You list a bunch of champions with invisible "traps" and try to compare them to a bright flashing red trap? Lol.

dunder killDec 18, 201613 votes

Nidalee Maokai

Could even through Zigg's E on there kinda

MarshbouyDec 18, 20169 votes

Nidalee's trap is only for vision control and cheesing jungle camps, maokais E is really just an ability filler TBH.

5000000000000000Dec 18, 20161 votes

Must say that while Sapling Toss is a cool ability with a lot of uses, it doesn't really mesh with the rest of the kit very well. He's a warden, and his E isn't much of a warden's spell.

You could argue that the vision can be used to save allies, but then you wouldn't say Ashe and Quinn are wardens.

Gamer LifeDec 18, 20162 votes

Nidalee and Maokai traps arnt invisible

MarshbouyDec 17, 201614 votes

It would make them essentially useless in lane, a big no no for a champion that is designed to siege a lane using those traps. 2 downvotes, still no good counterargument.

Sraeg2013Dec 18, 20165 votes

The counterargument is that she can wall off the entire lane with her traps, with her enemy having exactly zero options to counteract that.

MarshbouyDec 18, 20164 votes

You could go to another lane or focus on another objective. If minions did destroy her traps then she would be entirely useless. A large amount of her lane pressure would be gone, since minions will destroy them. The only times when the traps would be useful would be when she cheeses a bush or to wall off the jungle, but she would still be gutted pretty hard.

A Basic IslandDec 18, 20167 votes

what you're essentially saying is if cait comes to your lane, concede the tower

MarshbouyDec 18, 20165 votes

Well if you are talking in a sense that she is pushing your lane, you could just play safe and clear the wave. Don't engage, poke with long range spells, ask for help(like a gank) from an ally.

Tik115Dec 18, 20162 votes

item 3085 "I'll match your waveclear because of one item"

Also "Poke with long range spells" Meanwhile she can match it with her AA range AND she can throw a trap or two under your turret to give you less room to maneuver

Sraeg2013Dec 18, 20163 votes

You could go to another lane or focus on another objective.

So if she's at the inhibitor tower, you are suppose to give it up and push sidelanes.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard this year.

If minions did destroy her traps then she would be entirely useless.

Bullshit.

She'd still be able to wall off sides of a lane without a problem, but the enemy would at the very least have a narrow path down the very middle of a lane.

Chembaron YamadaDec 19, 20161 votes

It is sieging. There are some ways to break a siege, believe it or not.

Going splitpushing is one way to break a siege. If you got a mage with good wave clear, she will take ages to take this tower (if at all). Try to siege a tower against Viktor. Long ranged wave clear is the answer. While Caitlyn is at a tower and not really doing progress, another one of your team is going to splitpush. Splitpusher usually shred towers really fast, forcing the enemy to stop the not successful siege to stop the splitpusher.

Another strategy: having a strong initiator. Sion for example. Ult through the traps (unstoppable and he is tanky, so why care about her traps), you just made a path for your team to follow up by removing a trap and his ult is extremely strong at initiating. Sion perma CC's the enemy, your team follows and destroy them.

Don't act like sieging is an unbeatable strategy. You got options to counter that situation, use them.

BlakiepugDec 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The counterargument is that she can wall off the entire lane with her traps, with her enemy having exactly zero options to counteract that.

Don't step on traps... You guys dramatically exaggerate how much of an area she can cover with traps and it's so frustrating to try talking to all the Caitlyn haters because they just downvote you over and over without listening to reason. If you think Caitlyn is so op, play her yourself and show us all that she is. There are ways around her trap. If she has you strangled at tower then your jungler can gank from behind easily and she gets screwed.

Sraeg2013Dec 18, 20162 votes

I'm not exaggerating.

I was on the receiving end of Caitlyn putting 5 traps in line right under my fucking tower, which literally made the whole width of the lane impassable without Flash, which resulted in a free, incontestable tower.

Think the jungler can help? Too bad that before I get over the Anti-Fun Zone he's in a 1v2 and dies within like 2 seconds.

OleandervineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Don't step on traps... You guys dramatically exaggerate how much of an area she can cover with traps and it's so frustrating to try talking to all the Caitlyn haters because they just downvote you over and over without listening to reason. If you think Caitlyn is so op, play her yourself and show us all that she is. There are ways around her trap. If she has you strangled at tower then your jungler can gank from behind easily and she gets screwed.

Don't step on her traps - you make it sound like having to actively try to avoid 3 traps spaced in a line across your lane under your tower is something you have time to do in a game like League. You'll get shot in the face or hit by the support whIle you're trying to pussyfoot around the traps, and then if you misstep, you'll get shot in the face even harder. Caitlyn's traps might be possible to move around, but the time it takes you to evade them can cost you quite a bit.

Dark MohanDec 18, 201614 votes

Because they are not yordles.

RamboDash15Dec 18, 20162 votes

I like you

LùmenDec 18, 20165 votes

Then why do they work on all the champions?

WolfBVDec 18, 20169 votes

Every champion is secretly a yordle.

Redhood MonDec 19, 20161 votes

then, Why it work on Anivia, Vel'koz ? They're flying!

RatbertDec 18, 201612 votes

Because they all have an additional gimmick? 4 of them are aoe for starters. 2 are straight invis, one chases you, boxes target you and nid's basically can generate as much damage from nid as a cait trap.

TequilaZombieDec 18, 20169 votes

Cait has a snare, increases her range and buffs her damage. Gimmicks enough for you?

EedatDec 19, 20162 votes

Cait's doesnt have an additional gimmick? Or do you not count hard CC as the initial?

RatbertDec 20, 20161 votes

They have an additional gimmick except maybe nid's. Nids are pretty close to caits traps except they're a pain to see and don't snare.

They're aoe, give vision, aren't number limited (I think), don't have a grace period between traps, and can have maximum effect even if the champ themselves aren't there and that doesn't include each trap's unique gimmick and damage.

Cait's traps are less useful for map control and scouting as opposed to lane control.

EedatDec 20, 20161 votes

Cait's traps do give vision though. Even if they didnt, it already has a main role plus a gimmeck.

Hard CC
Massive crit from headshot

RatbertDec 20, 20161 votes

I meant passive vision. I suppose they reveal if you step on them though (but that would be your misplay anyways!)

Again, I said an _additional _ gimmick. Like shaco's boxes have stronger hard cc and deal massive damage as well, except it's an aoe fear with a much larger trigger radius, invis and deals damage even without shaco being there. Or how jhin's traps are invis, deal formidable aoe damage, set you up for his snare and spawn on kill. Of course, I'm assuming shaco builds ap and jhin builds ad.

Once again, those traps serve different purposes, and cait's are basically only there for walling/zoning because they can't be used for much else.

EedatDec 23, 20161 votes

Yeah but you can legit walk out of most of the damage and they're made completely useless by item 3364 item 2055

RatbertDec 23, 20161 votes

Yeah except you can also sidestep cait traps. I don't care if she placed 5 in a line, there are always other ways to get at them.

There's also more traps than scanners most of the time due to cooldowns and stuff, so they aren't completely useless.

BananaJannanaDec 18, 20166 votes

Imagine how terrible the game would be if Riot took advice from whining players like yourself

DJMason88Dec 18, 20163 votes

Nice counter argument

CookyPrinceDec 18, 20163 votes

Hey guys i played one game where I was autofilled bot against caitlyn and I think she's broken like everyone else says she is though I've never played bot or Caitlyn myself

LùmenDec 18, 20161 votes

Oh, don't get me started.. Jeez

Emerald FangDec 18, 20165 votes

NO. THis will just destroy Caitlyn. You are just all salty people who think Cait should go die in a fire but you don't realize if you do this then her traps are USELESS. How about set a COOLDOWN for getting hit by traps? So once you trip one you can't trip another for 3 seconds.

DarkRitualDec 18, 20164 votes

The cooldown already exists for multiple traps. Morgana has time to trigger two during a Black Shield duration.

CookyPrinceDec 18, 20164 votes

Lemme compare all different types of traps with different abilities to another champion with a different type of trap to try to make a point

Chembaron YamadaDec 18, 20164 votes

Because they are fulfilling different purposes. You have to keep in mind how the specific skill is meant to be used.

Jhin His traps are mostly a tool for ambushes and escapes. You prepare a trap to deal damage and then follow up or you place the trap at a place you want to escape through, so the enemy is stepping on them so you can use W to snare them, giving yourself a speed buff and dealing damage to them. It can be used as wave clear (Jhin's wave clear is pretty bad because of his passive. His Q just clears 4 minions, the trap make him able to clear bigger waves) and as a warning system against ganks.

Nidalee She is a jungler. Her traps activate on creeps and should, because she needs to mark them to get the benefit of the skill reset. She can place the traps in bushes to prevent counter jungling, too.

Shaco Again, a jungler. Tell me how his jungling would be if his boxes wouldn't trigger against jungle creatures?

Teemo Same like Jhin, used for ambushes, wave clear, escape and warning system.

Caitlyn Her traps are a zoning and sieging tool. Caitlyn wouldn't be able to siege (like she is intended to) if her traps would trigger on minions. Can be used as a warning system (more situational since they are not invisible, just can be used on the very edge of a brush).

Comparing trap-like skills from different champions and saying "his doesn't do it, so hers shouldn't either" doesn't work. You have to keep in mind what the skill is actually meant to do.

underscores222Dec 18, 20163 votes

It made sense with her old trap system (3 traps, ap scaling magic damage) that were really just to hold you still for her Q or reveal you for her R (or slightly zone you occasionally)

5 traps wouldn't be so bad if they worked the same way. Her zoning becomes a bit better, but stepping on them isn't punishing (slight magic damage and immobilization) if you decide to stand on them at the right time.

5 traps with her new headshot (scales with crit) and have an AD scaling (rather large) and let her get double range against the trapped target with a guaranteed headshot proc on top of the bonus damage from the trap is a bit too punishing.

So let's break this down. 5 traps is good, it allows her to zone more effectively - which she needed. The number of traps you can have out also scales with rank, so cait players have a decision to make about what to max first (Q and W are both viable this way). But traps are too punishing when stepped on - the damage + headshot is really strong. Granted, it's easier to avoid stepping on any individual trap (trigger radius reduced when they changed them) so the damage can increase on them a bit compared to old, non-threatening traps. Then we have the range increase - she's a sniper, it makes some sense somewhat, but it currently allows her to do tons of damage from pretty far away, which is really powerful.

What I would like to see as a good middle ground (maybe, not really doing a fully math'd analysis) is keeping the guaranteed headshot (keeps her wanting to auto trapped targets - which allows some counterplay if she gets greedy) but reducing the damage traps do and changing it back to dealing some damage when the trap is triggered (small DoT for the duration?)

Stepping on traps then becomes punishing from the base damage, and Cait still feels good about shooting a sitting target, but the overall damage she is doing is reduced. Adjustments to her headshot scaling might also be needed.

EhlekarDec 18, 20163 votes

Minions are as light as cupcakes and don't trigger the pressure pad /s

BlakiepugDec 18, 20163 votes

Because Caitlyn actually has to be near her traps to use them to, all of the other trap based champions don't.

Sraeg2013Dec 18, 20164 votes

Caitlyn's Headshot outranges champion vision range.

That's not remotely fucking close to "near".

GibberwattDec 18, 20164 votes

What blakie meant is that Cait has to camp nearby her traps, or use lots of mana to keep a short trail of traps going, whereas Shaco can drop a box in botlane, and then wander over to wherever he wants to go, and that trap will still be 100% viable to kill someone.

YFisfabulousBRUHDec 19, 20161 votes

Or just drop a box where you think the enemy jungler/whoever is coming and happily take their jungle camps

RamboDash15Dec 18, 20161 votes

I never thought of it that way. Holy shit, that's insane. The only other trap that minions don't proc I can think of right now (without thinking too long) is Jinx's flame chompers, but they don;t last nearly as long as Cait's traps do.

DarkRitualDec 18, 20162 votes

Jinx's traps do still deal damage to minions when they blow up, as an additional difference.

RamboDash15Dec 18, 20162 votes

Yes, but they do not root them, which is what I meant

DarkRitualDec 18, 20162 votes

My point is it's fine for every trap to have some differences to how they behave.

SwiftKitten88Dec 18, 20161 votes

becuase orginally Nidalee and Caitlyn traps works nearly identically.

they both didn't have charges they both did identical damage

the difference was that Nidalee traps procced in an AOE and lowered % armor and MR

and Caitlyn traps proced single target but rooted them

during nidalee rework her traps went from 80 damage at lvl 1 and 60 mana in an aoe with % armor and mr reduction

to single target (lost the aoe)with 20 base damage but with 10% max hp (capped at 200 vs minions and monsters) they also lost the true sight and they lost the % armor and MR pen

THEN

riot GUTTED her traps by changing her post rework traps to 40 damage (half the pre-rework value, plus half the scaling) and they never got back the AOE or the % magic/ armor pen for the true vision

i THINK they might have just gotten true vision back with the current pbe patch.

but still they need to be changed back to her 4.17 traps... not her pre-rework traps

xelakerDec 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

becuase orginally and traps works nearly identically.

they both didn't have charges they both did identical damage

the difference was that traps procced in an AOE and lowered % armor and MR

and traps proced single target but rooted them

during nidalee rework her traps went from 80 damage at lvl 1 and 60 mana in an aoe with % armor and mr reduction

to single target (lost the aoe)with 20 base damage but with 10% max hp (capped at 200 vs minions and monsters) they also lost the true sight and they lost the % armor and MR pen

THEN

riot GUTTED her traps by changing her post rework traps to 40 damage (half the pre-rework value, plus half the scaling) and they never got back the AOE or the % magic/ armor pen for the true vision

i THINK they might have just gotten true vision back with the current pbe patch.

but still they need to be changed back to her 4.17 traps... not her pre-rework traps