If it has a hitbox and it moves, it is a projectile and it'll be blocked by Windwall

ModAcademy Kayn·Sep 10, 2016·6 votes·616 views

Code and mechanics do not care if it "feels" unfair. If it is a projectile, it is going to get destroyed. Asking for an ability to be exempt from how Code and mechanics work affects clarity and confuses the player using the ability.

Imagine if Teemo could blind everyone BUT Lee Sin and Reksai, but it didn't specify on the ability description. The Teemo player is confused on how he got killed because some hidden exception contradicted what the ability said it'd do.

21 Comments

ThePartyLeaderSep 10, 20165 votes

Champions have hit boxes and move.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 10, 20161 votes

Now you're just arguing for the sake of it.

ThePartyLeaderSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Now you're just arguing for the sake of it.

Welcome to the internet! And not trying to argue I'm just a jerk who points out dumb crap.

Gary B EnkelisSep 10, 20161 votes

Nah, you took their words literally and showed how they're flawed. It's good to think about in programming and stuff....

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20162 votes

I like that idea. You're stupid and worthless.

Gary B EnkelisSep 10, 20161 votes

Can't block Malphite Diana Akali ults, as far as I know.

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20164 votes

Yeah, but "If it has a hitbox and it moves, and is not a permanent entity, it is a projectile and it'll be blocked by Windwall" was too long for the title.

Nagoh ShanSep 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mXAPaH4e,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-09-10T22:03:26.837+0000)

Yeah, but "If it has a hitbox and it moves, and is not a permanent entity, it is a projectile and it'll be blocked by Windwall" was too long for the title.

Wrong still, because Spirit sword and Ori ball are both permanent entities and are blocked.

ModAcademy KaynSep 11, 20161 votes

Man, I don't think i am going to fit anything more into the title than what i did.

And on the account of those, they are projectiles, and they are blocked, but not deleted. I remember the one bug when Riot was testing out a version of Shacos Ult that included him dissapering from the map like he currently does, but throws a projectile that inserts him back into the map where he landed. Yasou could destroy that projectile and he'd be out of the game permanently.

BlåbæretSep 10, 20162 votes

Yasuo main spotted.

So many fundamental flaws with your arguementation that I don't even know where to begin. Firstly, code and mechanics are neutral meaning it's irrelevant to them whether it is fair or in fact unfair. Your sentence doesn't make sense. That leaves us with the common census (which stems from empirically gathered data as well as statistics involving ban rates and the likes) which dictates that Yauso's wind wall is unfair and unfun to play against on general grounds and popular opinion.

That brings us to my second point: this is a game that does not follow the rules of what you may perceive as reality. We have (among other things), witch craft, fairies and slaughtering of mythical animals (dragons etc.). More interestingly, there is teleportation which seems to violate the laws of physics in our would. Therefore I ought to know: why should earth physics apply to anything in this game?

A curious bystander.

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20161 votes

https://gyazo.com/87e20dbe95c641db4fad0774ae7d6a91 Yep, totally a Yasou main.

On to the actual arguments, you have none. I never specified physics, the example was only to show how confusing exceptions make to the clarity of the game. I never talked about WindWall being unfair or unfun.

The entire post's purpose, as you skim over entirely, is the danger of exceptions and how when you add exceptions, no matter the reason, they result in a lack of clarity. Honestly, this post is just a counter post to the "Nami Wave vs. Yasou Windwall" post that is Hot at the moment.

BlåbæretSep 11, 20161 votes

Don't need any arguements when there are none to respond to.

Btw, how does it make sense for Orianna ult to get interrupted by wind wall? Even if the ball is attached to you it still gets interrupted. There is no projectile involved. Power wise, wind wall has an extremely low CD for what it offers and how it nullifies the kits of many champs makes me question why it's even in the game.

ModAcademy KaynSep 11, 20161 votes

Simple, Oriannas ult isn't blocked by Windwall, and if it currently is, than it's a bug. Orianna's R is not a projectile. When the button is pressed, it winds up and at the end of the wind up, it checks for nearby enemies, pulling them into the center.

RPK9KM4K4ASep 10, 20161 votes

Velkoz W: doesn't extend through windwall Rumble ult: any part of ult touches windwall, entire ult is removed

Chogath Q (rupture): unaffected by windwall Velkoz E: blocked by windwall

Gary B EnkelisSep 10, 20161 votes

Chogath Q is not a projectile in the sense that it moves horizontally (I'd say). It pops up from the ground.

However I'm surprised Velkoz E does not act the same... Weird.

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20161 votes

Misleading animations for the first two. W is still a projectile, as it moves forward while expanding the hitbox, leaving a trail behind it. Same goes for Rumble.

Chogath doesn't have a projectile. It is summoned on that spot on the ground. Velkoz E has a projectile, two twirly little beams that go towards a marked location.

DynikusSep 10, 20161 votes

they can certainly code things that don't appear to be projectiles differently though. For example Viktor and Kayle's empowered autos and annie's W ignore windwall.

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20161 votes

Those aren't projectiles, you're right. Kayle's autos originate from the target, Annie's W is doesn't travel as much as it is summoned on that cone shaped area, as it doesn't have a travel time. And Viktors enhanced Auto isn't a projectile, as the animation itself shows a lazer, but the damage is near instant the moment you target someone with an Enhanced Auto.

DrCyanideSep 11, 20161 votes

The issue I think most people have is "Why's a 'projectile' defined that way?"

A projectile could be defined as something that has the properties you describe, but isn't connected to the ground. That would allow things like Braum Nami Poppy ult to pass through the Wind Wall, while still blocking things like auto attacks and most other spells ( Velkoz 's W, Lissandra 's E, and Zyra 's E being the only spells that are currently blocked that would go through). It would also better match the dictionary definition of a Projectile, increasing clarity.

ModAcademy KaynSep 11, 20161 votes

Except how they code the abilities still implies a projectile even if they look/appear otherwise. Remember, there is no actual way to distinguish abilities that "Travel across the ground" because the projectile itself isn't on the ground, only the animation. And I'd argue that it would clutter clarity by allowing exceptions. New Yasou players wouldn't understand why these things aren't being blocked despite it being what the ability said it would do, especially when other abilities still behave normally with wind wall.

DrCyanideSep 11, 20161 votes

New Yasou players wouldn't understand why these things aren't being blocked despite it being what the ability said it would do, especially when other abilities still behave normally with wind wall.

New Yasuo players are confused that Wind Wall doesn't block Xerath Q's, Xerath Ults, Tower shots, and melee auto attacks. Seriously, count the number of times new Yasuo's will cast Wind Wall while 1v1ing a melee only champion, it's very amusing.

Again, I'd argue there'd be less confusion for new Yasuo's because it matches the lay man's definition of a Projectile. Rocks breaking under your feet are not what the average person would call a projectile.

PS: remember that Yasuo ults Airborne targets, yet isn't able to ult Anivia, Kayle, nor Aurelian Sol on demand. "Clarity" was not a word in Riot's vocabulary as far as Yasuo is concerned.

Remember, there is no actual way to distinguish abilities that "Travel across the ground" because the projectile itself isn't on the ground, only the animation.

There's currently no way to distinguish, but a boolean (true/false) attribute could be added to identify if the traveling spell is considered a projectile. Default attribute to true, set it to false for ~5 current abilities, and have the functionality available in the future to use that for new interactions.