Misconceptions and what should be done to save Lulu support (+ other AP/poke supports too)

Athenes Lulu··6 votes·1,623 views

Yes, as the name implies, I am just your typical Lulu (support) main out there, ever since season 3 when I just reached level 30. We all know she excels at many things, especially as her identity as THE "support mage", who can be taken botlane as well as top/mid. Sure, it's great that we can have champs taken BOTH solo lane and duo lane, but seeing her picked in the LCS is getting real old. While she gets all the spotlight, fame, and hate in a solo lane, she's been long forgotten as a support, something she was intended to be due to the meta shifts since season 4, and of course, the introduction of "utility scalings" that makes certain CC spells scale off AP.

She (and if not, the ENTIRE class of AP/poke supports) have been long forgotten and outclassed, they never gotten the balance/love/etc they should be getting because of misconceptions of what they should be doing and building. Unfortunately, even the balance team had no real clue of what the heck is going on with them, therefore ignored and thus become underplayed.

(LONG READ BELOW, BE WARNED! Also sorry for my funny formatting I tried and apparently G&B can't take humor for some whatever reason)


#Misconceptions:

##1. Lulu is a great solo laner, and a sh!t support. This line is dictated this way mainly because of how MOST people play as Lulu, no matter where she goes. People tend to forget that her skills are DUAL USE, and therefore not utilizing her kit completely. In general (even on spec live too):

  • W (polymorph/speedboost for those who don't know) is mainly ally-cast. As of now, this spell ally cast scales off AP, therefore providing a pretty great benefit for Lulu players who stack a sh!tton of AP. However, many players (usually lower elos) do not know that sometimes they're better off saving this spell for disengage, as it is a direct "f--k you" to carries, especially assassins. If Lulu is tanky enough, she can even simply walk in, throw that on the enemy adc, and effectively shut him down if executed properly... it is a VERY powerful point-and-click disengage. In fact, the disengage is so powerful that it can be might as well game-breaking, assuming she had a team, of course.
  • E (shield/that stupid point and click spell) is used offensively to position and deal damage to the enemy team, ignoring the fact that it is a huge AA-steroid to carries AND a vision/stealth detection.
  • R is almost always used to save people, and often self-cast as well. There's assassins that can dive in 1v5? Nope. A way to perform a wombo-combo? Never a thought.

In fact, she also NEEDS items to work, and is actually weak early game especially before reaching level 3. If a support is this weak early game, we might as well consider botlane a 1v2 instead, because of how nearly useless she is as a support.

Supports in LCS don't rely on items and run only on mobi's, sightstone, level 1 support gold item, and a bunch of consumables. Because Lulu can't do that and needs items instead, she will most likely never be seen in competitive play as a support anymore.

Also, solo Lulu needs a rather specific comp to work: bruiser/damage dealer in the other solo lane, another damage-heavy jungler, tank support, and ADC; which is also what we will see in the LCS most of the time, therefore making her a great pick mid/toplane every damn game.

So what does it mean? That kind of "solo laner" playstyle + the fact that she needs items to work + the current meta = she is a GREAT solo laner! We DO know that AP/poke supports are outclassed atm, but I'll go over that later in this megathread. And of course we all know sheep are too stupid to play non-linear kits so they end up making things linear and then come to me to complain how sh!tty Lulu is ok pls don't shoot me I'm just kidding G&B

##2. Supports actually build AP items! Who told you that? No, I'm serious here, who did? Rito? Non-support mains? Tank support mains? Sorry to ruin your dreams, it's kinda obvious that they don't. Especially NOT Rabadon's, Zhonya's, or RoA, sorry, we supports are too poor to afford those on time. Just because Rito says you can, doesn't mean you should; that's not how sh!t works. In fact, they're better off building defense because they can live longer to keep everyone alive, they DON'T need damage, and the fact that they can't even afford AP items. AP is a luxury to supports' eyes, because we don't need them and can't afford them right away, as compared to people who last hit. Let's get real here... since we are hardly ever ahead in gold, we'll never get to build any form of heavy-AP items.

Sure, there's a few handful of "AP support" items that exists (people will never know how OP Ardent Censer is on Lulu), but if you're looking for legit scalings and planning on building 200+ AP on a support without having to wait for 55+ minutes, you're out of luck. I mean you can get to ~100AP with those, but trust me, they're not enough to matter especially into late game, especially on supports who don't even need to deal damage and the fact that they don't even scale well. With sightstone as a (hopefully) mandatory item and support gold item so we are not 100% broke, we only have 3 slots to build legit items, instead of the usual 5 (boots don't count). Which means, we got almost no room to build AP/damage of any kind.

##3. Lulu solo lane NEEDS mana, buffing her mana regen would only make sh!t worse! Did you know that Lulu also AA to harass in a solo lane? Don't forget the fact that as a solo laner, she has to AA sometime to farm, which allows her mana to regenerate in the meantime. So, what do Lulu supports do in lane? Can't just sit there and AFK, (let's get real here if she does that she's already screwed), she's gotta DO SOMETHING such as poking and making sure no one has a free farming lane. Or even applying pressure to distract jungler attention (so mid/top can have room to snowball, right?)...that's still doing something.

Even though supports need mana regen more, mages can easily rush mana regen so they don't have to worry too much about that anymore. However, supports don't have that luxury. Usually, they don't get to build that until they are out of lane, because they have other priorities to get (such as more sustain, vision, and more vision), on top of the fact that they have significantly less gold to spend. So, what does that mean? Buffing her mana regen helps her supporting a LOT more, while it has little to no effect on Lulu mids. Also buff spellthief plox

##4. Her laning phase is safe! Solo lane? Yes. Duo lane? NO!!!!!!! Duo lane is NOT safe because 1) she doesn't have the range to poke from a range and not get sniped by an enemy Leona/Blitz/etc, or 2) have any sustained heals to make up for the shorter range (cough Nami/Sona/Raka). Don't forget that enemy ADCs will also AA you when you're in range to do your job... we all know that sh!t hurts like hell. In fact, if she's trying to Q or AA to harass, she has to stop for a short while as well.

Which means... shorter range + having to stop to harass = you are in range to get sniped by tanks = extremely dangerous gameplay. This also means she has an excuse to be tankier than ranged supports (I'll go over with that later) due to her lack of range and/or heals. She COULD do fancy E+Q tactics to poke from safety, but let's get real here, she's gonna go OOM by the time the timer hits 4 minutes into game. And that, is definitely not a good idea to do so botlane.

"But Lulu can peel too, you know?" Yes, that is true, but they are extremely limited. You're slowed because she smeared glitter on your face? You can still catch her. One of you polymorphed when your jungler arrives? You can still outsmart her by having ANOTHER person to lock her and/or her ADC down. She casts W so someone can get out safely? Doesn't mean you CAN'T catch that someone.

It might be playstyle, but even so, she's still more vulnerable compared to other ranged supports, especially if you wanna stay botlane for more than 5 minutes, not die, and do your job all at once. Let's just hope your ADC isn't retarded or else your dangerous gameplay hard work are rendered useless.

##5. Hey, they nerfed her base HP, you're already screwing up her botlane!!!! Here's a link for reference: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_health As you can see, Lulu actually has one of the highest base HP at level 1, only to be beaten by Miss Fortune, Thresh, Ryze, Draaaaven, and Lucian. The other 5 are allowed to be tanky base stat-wise because they have fairly short range to do things, and therefore they're justified.

It's ok for her to be a little more tankier than ranged supports due to her lack of heals and the ability to poke and save people from far away WITHOUT DRAINING HER MANA POOL. However, as a solo laner, there's no excuse because of how safe she is when she's alone (as mentioned before). The nerfs might be a little too harsh based on the numbers, but is rather justified because of all that.

And remember, supports in general build defense 85% of the time, so the HP nerf alone actually won't hurt support Lulus as hard. It's supposed to nerf SOLO Lulu's base tankyness since they hardly ever build defensive stuff!

##6. What's with that Pix tribute buff? That ain't helping Lulu support, dummy! Wait wait wait... what?? She AA's a lot to harass as well, you know, other than spamming Q and E willy-nilly. For those that don't know, when Lulu run spellthief, she actually CAN'T keep up with the tribute passive as compared to those of other poke supports (please refer to #4). Instead, most Lulu supports nowadays run the coin build because of that (and the fact that spellthief needs buffs).

Morgy can proc all 3 hits with just a pool. Each of Bard's meeps count as one spellthief proc, which means he can proc all 3 hits in one auto if he has at least 2 meeps. Even MF's slow can proc all 3 hits with just a single E cast! I don't see why can't Lulu have all of that good stuff. Yes, 1 hit per bolt (you DO know Pix shoots 3 bolts) seem excessive, so changing it to 1 for all 3 Pix bolts is fair enough.

Yes, Pix's shots can be minion blocked, but with good positioning, you can still do it; it's not impossible. That enough would bring her back in line, in doesn't seem much on paper, but is going somewhere. At least if executed properly, of course.

##7. Lulu's ult is a heal! Since it can't be reduced by grievous wounds, her ult isn't a true heal. That's why Rito define it by "adding HP". Not sure on why they made it like that, but just know it won't be affected by grievous wounds.


#The main problem.

We all know Lulu sucks at supporting ATM, even if you knew how to execute it properly. What's the deal then? First of all... we need to know why should anyone pick this girly midget botlane:

  • You want a jack-of-all-trades support, we have Nami. Why pick Lulu when Nami does (almost) everything better support-wise?
  • You want a poke support, we got things like Sona, Karma, and Zyra. Why pick Lulu when all 3 of them can poke much, much harder than Lulu does, but with less risk (and again see #4)?
  • Here, fine, what if you want a peeler, we got Janna and Alistar (I know that isn't his real identity but he executes that job real well). Both of them can peel much better than Lulu does, and both do just as much as she does.
  • she does not tank nor does fancy "one-button-for-a-free-kill" sry 2 ruin ur wet dreams, sheep :^(

Seriously though, what is she supposed to be good at? What kind of support is she, after all? Jack-of-all-trades sounds like the best answer, but again, Nami does all of it so much better.

Of course, if you read #1 from misconceptions, you already know why she won't ever see competitive play as a support anymore. This also means that an entire class of supports need changes as well. (and we seen enough Lux buffs out of the blue JUST so Rito would see her in competitive play, you know where this is going) Rito wants people to play champs in a certain way? Tweak the spells around!

In general:

  • Solo lane is too safe, which leads to how most people play Lulu in general.
  • Waveclear is too good especially when she gets the luxury of stacking AP
  • No one likes dealing with point-and-click damage spells (which also explains why people don't like Annie)
  • Easy self-peel because she only has to worry about herself AS A SOLO LANER

And lastly, she's really oppressive to play against from a solo lane perspective especially when sheep are too dumb to not pick annoying shit (who also outscales) like Azir/Xerath/KARTHUS/Syndra/or even Veigar/etc. At least Zyra WILL get blown up upon being caught. At least Karma doesn't have fancy peels or else she would've been picked midlane 24/7. Raka finally can't heal herself so that's that. Sona = Karma's + Zyra's case if taken solo lane. We COULD get Azir to counter the crap out of solo Lulu, but we all know this poor guy's always banned, so we will always see her in the LCS.


#What should we do about it?

##Q should deal slightly less damage to minions, something like a 25% reduction to minions is good enough. We all know that her Q (where she smears glitter on your feet so you're slowed) is her MAIN source of harass and damage. From a supporting standpoint, it should be focused on champions, not minions. In fact, supports WITH WAVECLEAR should never be a thing. If Rito wants an AoE spell BUILT to harass, I don't see why they don't do the minion damage reduction... I mean, killing minions is NOT a support's job, at all. I'm not sure if anyone has played enough Lulu support, but that damage reduction would help A LOT so I don't accidentally take minions, therefore resetting the spellthief passive. This nerfs solo lane A BIT, but would become a better excuse to buff base damages on Q so Lulu support can be buffed.

##Remove utility scaling on W. If you remembered my point from #2, you DO know that supports hardly ever benefit from anything that scales, such as AP. Which means, the scalings alone benefits only Lulu solo lanes, and is almost useless on Lulu support (at least most of the time). why does this even exist in the first place holy sh!t

Hungry for compensation? Bring back the "bonus AP" back! Find that a rather unique (and would actually bring a new kind of meta you know you love Morde botlane :^)), but seems already too overloaded. Of course, make the bonus apply on ally-cast (we all know that Ardent Censer does NOT work upon self-cast) so solo Lulus won't abuse it. Just kidding, just dumping in ideas. This is a direct nerf on solo Lulu, and has almost no effect on support Lulu AT ALL.

##E enemy-cast should be nerfed hard. Instead of 80/110/140/170/200, make it something like 80/85/90/95/100. Nerf the scaling from .4 to .2 if necessary. First things first, point-and-click damage spells (I still hate you Annie) are no fun to deal with and we hate that sh!t.

Enemy cast should be used as a utility to position to land your perfect poke patterns or plant a temporary ward on enemies, which is extremely effective on stealth champs (byebye Vayne and Akali). Of course, gotta keep the rank 1 the same so support Lulu isn't completely useless in terms of damage. Higher ranks should stay nerfed because 1) there's NO need for support Lulus to get anymore base damages/shields and 2) so solo Lulus are still discouraged to use it to deal damage.

Keep the defensive (ally cast) the same. and assuming people are smart enough to use it ally cast as a stupidly MASSIVE OP steroid... + kill 2 birds with a stone by using it to position as well This discourages E enemy-cast, encourages ally-cast. The latter is a LOT more useful on support Lulu. I like the "reduced vision" for enemies but let's get real here, this spell is already overloaded enough :(

##Ult is now a heal. Which means, it can be reduced by grievous wounds! To compensate, make it able to have "heal-oriented buffs", such as the Ardent Censer passive which allows heals AND shields to activate. I'm not sure if base damages/ratios should be nerfed (because 300/400/600 is a lot tbh) but since it's a SINGLE TARGET ULT a tweak here and there would be helpful. Or have a reduced self-cast? Naw, just kidding, I'm just dumping in random ideas. This nerfs solo Lulus (who stacks ap to make the ult even more useful), but buffs support slightly because of bonus effects.

##More base HP/armor changes? Right now, the nerf alone is a little too hard off the damn bat. You gotta remember #4 and #5, which both takes some kind of consideration. Yes, she should be above average compared to supports, but shouldn't when compared to RANGED champs in general.

Here I'll just drop in the links again for reference: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_armor http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_health Base armor doesn't necessarily need a buff (because going against AD matchups in solo lanes matter too), but changes here and there would be nice.

##Spellthief (and its family) buffs! Frostfang mana regen: 75%, AP = +20AP. Frostqueen mana regen: 100%, AP = +60 (or 70 AP, but this needs a buff cuz talisman outshines FQ by like SO MUCH, or even a talisman nerf isn't too bad either) Its's not just Lulu, but other poke supports are outclassed atm as well. WE ALL KNOW THAT. (I know y'all are crying for sona and zyra buffs even though I don't WANT them to be buffed :^( you don't know how annoying it is to go against sona/zyra as Lulu botlane)

Just buff the mana regen. That shit is the stuff that supports can't just afford out of the blue, especially in lane. Also, buff frostfang so people can build it eariler and not worry about losing anymore profits.

Trust me, even with chalice/book/etc they still need a f--kton of mana regen so I still don't see why the f--k not... Hey, why does the coin/talisman get to be overloaded while the spellthief can't?

##Add more "AP support" items? Also, possible Ardent Censer buff: +60 AP instead of +40 I'm not sure if Morello's count as one, but I still love that sh~t; it's affordable on supports too <333333 In case you don't know, Twin Shadows, Ardent Censer, Frostqueen's, and Zeke's are the only dedicated "AP support" items so far. Since Zeke's is already overloaded as f--k, no change is needed. Twin Shadows is SOMETIMES a midlaner item and +80 ap is actually a lot. Keep that. Censer should have more AP so it's more worth upon building it. Frostqueen's: see above. FQ is so awesome i don't know why ppl aren't rushing that sh!t it's so f--king useful


Phew, long thread. Took me a few days to get everything straight, especially from school aside...

Anything I'm missing? Complaints because "omg cancer lulu you're so biased"?

Seriously though, I'm here really to make sure Rito still wants to keep Lulu as an actual "support mage". I mean, it's not THAT bad to have a champ that can go to more than one lane, but come on, we're sick and tired of seeing lulu mid/top. If you don't ever want her to support again, rework so she's a mage, not a support, so bad players like me can stop complaining.

Rito, I just want to know what kind of champ Lulu should be and excel at, especially botlane.

#SaveSupprotLulu2015 ;_;

Lulu Thanks for reading! :D

19 Comments

Just Me Talon5 votes

Delete solo lane Lulu, baby.

Curling Veigar2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Just Me Talon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mOtJnZGA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-10T07:34:03.320+0000)

Delete solo lane Lulu, baby.

Yes

Cutie Lulu2 votes

I love how support mains complain about point and click damage when they get point and click shields, heals, and cc.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Idk about you, but I don't think anyone would like to get 100-0'd without any form of retaliation, not just supports...

Veigar might have a stupid point-and-click "f--k you" spell that deletes people, but at least he HAS to perform dangerous plays (delayed stuns in this flashy meta is no easy trick). Annie doesn't have to worry too much about "dangerous gameplay" because she can both stun AND kill in one button in which is unavoidable.

Rengo might be just as stupid, but at least you can cc him if he's is going to kill you, or get thornmail so its not completely one-sided.

Assassins had their targeted silences removed for a reason.

Cutie Lulu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mOtJnZGA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-10T16:38:23.712+0000)

Idk about you, but I don't think anyone would like to get 100-0'd without any form of retaliation, not just supports...

Veigar might have a stupid point-and-click "f--k you" spell that deletes people, but at least he HAS to perform dangerous plays (delayed stuns in this flashy meta is no easy trick). Annie doesn't have to worry too much about "dangerous gameplay" because she can both stun AND kill in one button in which is unavoidable.

Rengo might be just as stupid, but at least you can cc him if he's is going to kill you, or get thornmail so its not completely one-sided.

Assassins had their targeted silences removed for a reason.

Solo lane Lulu has never been able to "100-0" people using her E. Stop exaggerating.

Binxy Prime1 votes

I think they need more HP AP or HP mana Regen items for mage supports so they can be tanky and still do support things.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

If Rito knows what they actually need and build, that is.

Marthian1 votes

itemization isn't really the issue, it's Leona, Thresh, and Blitzcrank being too strong even with no damage scaling.

AP supports have plenty of options for items, be it pure AP, utility AP, or team utility such as Righteous Glory or Locket.

Level 0 Magikarp1 votes

I play lulu support and do fine o_o

Marthian1 votes

Just started playing Support Lulu recently as well and surprised why people think she sucks. She's a pretty good support.

The only real issue I see is Thresh, Leona, and Blitzcrank crapping on every other support because they turn the lane into a kill lane and they do it too well due to Utility, CC, and overtuned damage numbers.

Thresh has such an insane amount of utility the somewhat high damage he has is overkill. Blitz basically destroys whoever he hits due to his chain CC and pretty decent damage numbers. Leona is very tanky, sticky, and does solid damage as well, not to mention can build pure tank and do good on her own. All three are ridiculously good at zoning as well (rush mobility boots on Thresh or Blitz, and they either have to turn around to hit you if you walk up to them, giving you time to hook them, or they try and outrun a 400+ MS support and fail.) Also unlike other supports that if you end up in a 1v2 and as long as you play cautious can still farm, all three supports mentioned it's impossible to do so. Your support gone against the power three? They will just zone you even harder and you won't be able to farm safely.

manbearswine1 votes

A lot of things are being said here,many true,many false,so I'm just gonna refer to a few:

Lulu isn't THAT bad of a support right now,she is pretty decent,and is definitely stronger than zyra and sona,she also is sure as hell safer than them.

Nami I'm not too sure about,I'd say lulu was stronger before the nami buffs,now I'm not too sure,it's very important to note that even so nami is not the better lulu,lulu is much better at shutting down assassins,nami is quite bad at that.

Lulu base hp as a support is fine,and that's because she is more of a peel support(like janna) than a poke support,she however doesn't max her shield first,so she needs the extra bulk to be able to use her passive,as he ranges are low,her mana costs are high,and her base ms is low.

Lulu is pretty safe as a ranged support,yes tanks and janna are safer,but zyra and sona are definitely much riskier.

You are right,supports like lulu rarely build ap,so if you want to nerf solo lane lulu,hitting ratios is probably the best way to do that.

The buff to her spellthief interaction is...questionable,I personally prefer coin by far and the upcoming changes won't change that,the reason why I prefer coin is both because it builds into something better,and because due to lulus low range,poke with her is more opportunistic than spammable like morg,aaing tanks is especially risky with lulu after a certain point,and aggressive play on a squishy is also risky if you don't know where the enemy jungler is,as such I prefer coin to not encourage you for risky plays and keep your hp bar up if tanks jump on you.

Point click damage is perfectly fine and the annie QQ mostly stems from assassins who can't ez outplay point click abilities with their stupid mobility,there's no reason to nerf her damage on e.

I also feel that a lot of the hatred for off lane lulu is unjustified,at least she's not the moronic gnar who spams massively ranged poke from a mile away at no cost and has the ability to turn into a tank.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

{quoted}

A lot of things are being said here,many true,many false,so I'm just gonna refer to a few:

Lulu isn't THAT bad of a support right now,she is pretty decent,and is definitely stronger than zyra and sona,she also is sure as hell safer than them.

Nami I'm not too sure about,I'd say lulu was stronger before the nami buffs,now I'm not too sure,it's very important to note that even so nami is not the better lulu,lulu is much better at shutting down assassins,nami is quite bad at that.

Still outclassed by tank supports (and Janna) though, which explains why we end up questioning why picking her in the first place.

The only reason to pick Lulu over Janna in terms of peels is because it is A LOT easier to shut down certain bruisers/assassins, such as Irelia and Riven. Even though you gotta look at things in a larger scale, too. Unless both Lulu and her adc are extremely smart and skilled (or lucky in funnier cases), it's extremely difficult to win lane.

Imo she's not THAT bad, but still needs some love (and a clear direction of how Rito wants her to be).

Lulu base hp as a support is fine,and that's because she is more of a peel support(like janna) than a poke support,she however doesn't max her shield first,so she needs the extra bulk to be able to use her passive,as he ranges are low,her mana costs are high,and her base ms is low.

Gotta consider this when she's in a solo too, you know.

Lulu is pretty safe as a ranged support,yes tanks and janna are safer,but zyra and sona are definitely much riskier.

If you can do this without draining your mana quickly and have a prescence at the same time, that is. If your ADC is a tiny bit retarded you are done for.

You are right,supports like lulu rarely build ap,so if you want to nerf solo lane lulu,hitting ratios is probably the best way to do that.

The buff to her spellthief interaction is...questionable,I personally prefer coin by far and the upcoming changes won't change that,the reason why I prefer coin is both because it builds into something better,and because due to lulus low range,poke with her is more opportunistic than spammable like morg,aaing tanks is especially risky with lulu after a certain point,and aggressive play on a squishy is also risky if you don't know where the enemy jungler is,as such I prefer coin to not encourage you for risky plays and keep your hp bar up if tanks jump on you.

Spellthief Lulu is more of a personal preference, but also encouages Lulu to do something in lane instead of AFKing like how Janna would (pls don't shoot me we all know she does more than just that lel).

Point click damage is perfectly fine and the annie QQ mostly stems from assassins who can't ez outplay point click abilities with their stupid mobility,there's no reason to nerf her damage on e.

Not when you're stunned from Q and have absolutely no form of retaliation. At least things like Rengo and Veigar has some kind of risk when they do point-and-click damage... while Annie can just mash Q for a guaranteed stun + her combo = you are dead. I don't think anyone would find that fun.

I also feel that a lot of the hatred for off lane lulu is unjustified,at least she's not the moronic gnar who spams massively ranged poke from a mile away at no cost and has the ability to turn into a tank.

Then to have Lulu SUPPORTS bashed down at the same time for that reason! ;_;

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mOtJnZGA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-09-10T16:53:39.534+0000)

Still outclassed by tank supports (and Janna) though, which explains why we end up questioning why picking her in the first place.

I agree,though with the latest janna nerfs I'm not so sure which one is better(yeah they hit rather hard),I'm going to need some time to figure that one out,but yes,tank supports are generally better.

The only reason to pick Lulu over Janna in terms of peels is because it is A LOT easier to shut down certain bruisers/assassins, such as Irelia and Riven. Even though you gotta look at things in a larger scale, too. Unless both Lulu and her adc are extremely smart and skilled (or lucky in funnier cases), it's extremely difficult to win lane.

I don't find it to be that hard actually,yes the enemy has an advantage,especially with ganks,but it's not too big.

Imo she's not THAT bad, but still needs some love (and a clear direction of how Rito wants her to be).

I think riot has given the direction they want her to be,they just have trouble making it that way as well.

Gotta consider this when she's in a solo too, you know.

Again I think people for the most part completely overexaggerate solo lane lulu,she's not particularly popular there anyway,I would much rather deal with lulu than a irelia/riven/gnar(won't even mention juggernauts) or ahri/yasuo/fizz,and I think people feel that way too,that's why they pick them more.

If you can do this without draining your mana quickly and have a prescence at the same time, that is. If your ADC is a tiny bit retarded you are done for.

I feel like you're exaggerating.

Spellthief Lulu is more of a personal preference, but also encouages Lulu to do something in lane instead of AFKing like how Janna would (pls don't shoot me we all know she does more than just that lel).

It encourages her to be more aggressive,but due to her low range I don't think it's a good idea.

Not when you're stunned from Q and have absolutely no form of retaliation. At least things like Rengo and Veigar has some kind of risk when they do point-and-click damage... while Annie can just mash Q for a guaranteed stun + her combo = you are dead. I don't think anyone would find that fun.

Yeah you see I would still rather deal with annie than bullshit like fizz or yasuo,and fiora,at least annie is immobile,and doesn't have bullshit defensive abilities,she is also used to counter these trashlords,so I see her as the lesser evil.

Then to have Lulu SUPPORTS bashed down at the same time for that reason! ;_;

It's the boards,it's a massive circlejerk between clueless idiots,I don't know what you expected from here.

fk off my screen1 votes

buff health scaling or armor so support lulu don't get melted during early game, as item 2045 is usually her only HP item (assuming lulu takes FQC) until mid game. i'm usually rushing item 3165 or item 3174 (if ahead) for the CD/mana regen, after finishing up FQC. meanwhile, other supports are able to already tank damage from ADC and support, then dealing ridiculous damage without AP items.

one rotation of her spells at level 3 and she's forced to AA until she has sufficient mana again. buff her mana pool. that will significantly increase her game play and allow her to stay in lane much longer. her lore states that she lived at the fucking fairy netherworld for god knows how long, so she should have completely absorbed the magic. tbh, she should have one of the highest mana/mana regen in the game.

nerf Q dmg. unnecessary nuke that can potentially steal CC from ADC when all you're trying to do is poke your opponents. keep the slow.

nerf E dmg. keep the true sight. keep the shield.

the ult stays. her W and R is part of her identity (minimizing and maximizing). it's a game-changing skill during team fights.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

As much as we wanted this to be possible, but gotta take account into Lulu solo lane abusers players as well. There's a reason that they nerfed her base HP.

meanwhile, other supports are able to already tank damage from ADC and support, then dealing ridiculous damage without AP items.

one rotation of her spells at level 3 and she's forced to AA until she has sufficient mana again.

Someone knows the real deal, for once. I honestly like "anti-sustain" as her main weakness, but having such a high mana regen would make solo Lulu too strong.

Having high base damages would buff her supporting greatly, but makes her solo lane so much more painful to deal with. Which is also why I suggested some kind of % Q damage reduction on minions so her waveclear gets the nerfs they deserve. And somehow Rito has never heard of that concept...

fk off my screen1 votes

the reason why solo lane lulu is so strong (i am guilty of playing her mid solo when boredom strikes) is because she's rushing AP items which turns her Q into a nuke slow and pretty much syncs everything with her kit. this allows her to massively scale against her opponent, with her naturally high AP ratio. but lulu still got melted even before her base health nerf so that's just another tally mark on rito's failure in terms of balance. lulu does not have a gap closer or hard CC, which most mid champs have at their disposal. her only choice for disengage in mid lane would be W, which still leaves her extremely vulnerable to ganks (even if she polymorphs, they are still able to move towards her).

buffing her base damage allows her to CC much more easily, which means a solo lane lulu can take advantage of it. i don't think it will help discourage solo lane lulu. we might even start seeing an influx of AD lulu all of a sudden.

nerfing her AP damage output would actually discourage solo lane lulu because in the end, her damage won't scale enough with her mid lane opponent, meaning losing CC and eventually her lane. her mid lane win-rate will drop significantly (unless, like you've mentioned, if the pros play her differently, sheeps will follow). instead, buffing her mana/mana regen and keeping her beefy (or chubby) will increase usage sustainability which will redirect new coming players towards the support role. it allows her to be the annoying but cute little purple yordle, without being a AP glass cannon champ. but that's just me.

3TWarrior1 votes

actually, once level 9 comes around, there is 0 reason to keep sight stone...it takes an item slot, a lot of gold for a support's budget, and is easily replaced by an ordinary trinket upgrade

fk off my screen1 votes

which is why i said "until mid game". i usually take item 3341 as my trinket so i replace item 2045 as my last item for most cases.

Shorty1 votes

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