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"Pyke can't be a support!"

Athenes Lulu·5/16/2018, 3:29:08 AM·74 votes·22,700 views

Meanwhile "pure" mages like Brand, Zyra, and Vel'Koz are welcomed with open arms and crucified for being able to replace things like enchanters completely.

Just a reminder.

EDIT: Since a lot of you weren't around when mage supports first got popular, I'll give some context:

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E5baxUv9,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-05-16T09:49:32.386+0000)

Season 4 botlane was dominated by mages and tanks.

There were nearly no reason to pick enchanters that's not Janna back in the day. Relic healed much better than anything Sona could offer, Raka was still in her prerework state, Lulu was basically a top/midlaner because her support was literally a downgrade.

When mages back in the day completely replaced them, they were basically welcomed with open arms because clearly ADCs are "evil and needed to be tested". When enchanters made a "comeback", people bitched about wanting to gut them mainly because they were doing their jobs.

Now I'm not saying enchanters "feel good" to play right now because they are not, but it amuses me that people have double standards towards mages.

156 Comments

Rexxiee5/16/2018, 3:33:54 AM20 votes

Honestly Pyke really is nothing like a support.

Ive seen him on pbe, hes basically a blue kayn/talon/zed weird mix, nothing in his kit other than a random passive on his ult is supportive.

From what im seeing pyke is basically an average assassin that has too much cc/base stats for pretty much no reason, this support assassin thing is literally never going to work in any kind of healthy way, this champ already needs a rework.

TwinkiePro5/16/2018, 8:42:16 AM17 votes

As someone who has tried Pyke in every role, he is most definitely best fit for support. His extremely high early game cooldowns restrict him from venturing far into other roles and is heavily restricted in the jungle because of those high cooldowns and low base stats. He can somewhat work top lane against a tankier champ however, but his utter lack of waveclear makes it difficult.

As for builds, I've found that nearly full AD benefits him most. The hybrid AD/HP items are almost all lackluster on him except possibly frozen mallet. I've concluded that his conversion passive is really only there so he can build The green support item. His heal passive is also very good for surviving in lane against poke champs.

IMPO, he will get changes. His ult is absurdly strong and can easily decide games. I think the base will get reduced and shifted, hopefully, to his Q's scaling.

mack91125/16/2018, 4:02:52 AM9 votes

He is so squishy though lol

Ariel the Cruel5/16/2018, 6:45:01 AM7 votes

Does it have hard CC? Yes. Does it go oom in 1 rotation? No.

People (like me) will test it in support.

Sugarlicious5/16/2018, 10:39:23 AM6 votes

Can we just agree that he is what he actually is, a support that can kill? Hell, we have Rakan who is main supp going mid and doing fine, the other day I had Garen as supp and he did fine, so I can deal with Pyke doing fine in jungle or top if people can pull it off. I just don't see the need for being possessive and dismissive. I for once, loved playing him as supp on PBE and I think he has a great kit for that role. His ulti will probably get nerfed eventually, but other than that, I think Rito did a good job here.

Teridax685/16/2018, 11:15:08 AM6 votes

Considering how Pyke is literally designed to lane as a bot support, with multiple stat manipulations in his kit purely to make him do so, it would surprise me greatly if he were incapable of doing so. However, what I personally take issue with is labeling him a member of the support class: Pyke may be balanced completely around going into the support position, but I don't think he can be counted as a member of the support class, because he completely lacks any element of ally interaction. Unlike champions like, say, Janna, Thresh or even Morgana, whose kits all allow them to support their team in some manner, no matter how they're balanced, Pyke could just as easily become a solo laner with tweaks to his numbers. In this respect, he is as much of a duo laner as, say, Mordekaiser, whose XP passive intended to make him a bot lane carry without his playstyle actually fitting the role at all.

It's also worth mentioning that Brand, Zyra and Vel'Koz are all considered mages in the support position, rather than actual supports. The fact that they're put in opposition with "real" supports, usually enchanters, is proof of this. Personally, I'm happy with allowing more non-supports in the support position, provided actual supports also get to thrive and even possibly explore other lanes, so in this respect I think having an assassin in bot lane could be a step forward. I just don't think Pyke is a support-assassin hybrid, so much as an assassin forced to go bot, and that to me is a missed opportunity.

hhaavviikk5/16/2018, 7:05:47 AM6 votes

''pure mage'' zyra can't even mid or is viable anywhere outside bot lane, she got changed into a support basically

Theorex5/16/2018, 9:43:00 AM5 votes

Uhh?

What?

Enchanters are extremely viable.. Top three supports according to NA.OP.GG are enchanters. (Questionable with Sona/Rakan but they build the enchanter path soo..)

FlameadoDeKoorvo5/16/2018, 10:11:58 AM4 votes

Jut one gold pasive on the R do not make a champ a support...

I have seen gameplays in PBE and the worst results where obtained as support

SB Arneeman5/16/2018, 9:57:46 AM3 votes

Imo they should never force an assassin to fit the support role. Not only is it enough assassins outside pro play already, but he will be impossible to balance properly.

rtbf2234347215/16/2018, 9:49:53 AM3 votes

I rather have Pike as enemy support than Brand or Lux. He can't Poke. And i can poke him.

He can only capitalise from my mistakes.

LilxPaprika5/16/2018, 11:34:28 AM3 votes

Tbf itemization can give heroes off support type rolls. I just think its a question of the community recognizing that this exists. And maybe adjust comp a little with other champions that have support ish utility like Shen top Kayle jungle , oriana or lux mid... Of course having some CC/disengage is desirable which some mages have. Good poke and zoning is a legitimate tactic.

La Belle Sauvage5/16/2018, 12:31:34 PM3 votes

I find all the talk about what or which champs should or shouldn't be a support or played in the support role rather ridiculous.

I feel if someone can make a champ work in the support position more power to them.

As a support main it's my job to learn the pros and cons of facing an off meta pick, like say Ziggs, LB, etc. It's a small part of what keeps the game interesting at least for me.

What I hear people say when they complain about who, how, what should be considered a support is this:

"The dynamic of the game changed and I can't be bothered to change, so I'm going to complain loudly so I don't have to learn anything new or change how I play. "

I love seeing people try something new (not in ranked tho, but that's a different conversation) and making it work.

Rainfall5/16/2018, 4:57:57 PM3 votes

Pyke will be a support,Pyke won't be a sucessfull support,i would be impressed if he could be succesful anything with that ultimate. He is one of the champions that the moment you see the kit you know that he is going to be great in tournaments which means that he will be balanced around tournaments which means that by 2019 he will be 44-46% winrate

The Bad Touch5/16/2018, 8:27:53 PM1 votes

Who needs HP with 2.5k base HP.

Hell build a steraks and maw can you're dead long before you get through his shields.