The current state of the game is the worst it has been in a long time

Lock On··131 votes·6,659 views

To note: I've played since late into season 3, so I've personally experienced how downhill this game has spiraled since I began. Granted, there aren't as many 100% banrate champions Kassadin , but at the least any "OPs" were less than a handful, so there's still 4-5 bans to work with to make up for poor balancing.

The game shifted from strategy and mechanical emphasis to "rush bot lane for tower gold, group, rush mid." It was much less "snowbally" in the past. I remember having to be so careful with my mana usage as a midlaner or a support. Now I can rush a item 3165 which grants me 100 AP, mana, mana regen, 20% cdr, and just for shits and giggles, Grievous Wounds. Good God. At that point you can pretty much spam a few Qs or whatever short combo of X champion, press your point-and-click ultimate and kill them every 90 seconds Syndra Veigar Leblanc. Anivia Can execute you early into the game with a single combo with nothing but tear. What the F*ck. Just the fact that an assassin rarely needs an ultimate to kill you really damns their purpose. Were it not for deep followers of the meta, it'd make more sense to run bruiser vs bruiser midlane or something. Because nowadays they nor tanks don't have nearly as much trouble hitting their target and dealing a lot of damage Here's the breakdown:

  • Bursty champs do too much damage in a short period of time
  • "Bruisers" are too tanky for the damage they deal Camille Garen Hecarim Illaoi JarvanIV Kled Olaf Shyvana Trundle Vi Zac
  • Mana costs are too low for a lot of mages and some top laners
  • Just delete Rylais. You're never going to balance that item without it being utterly useless or too powerful. The thought of Syndra spamming Qs from an even safer range than an ADC dealing more than enough damage to delete the squishy backline who makes any attempt to auto attack her.
  • Working on balancing item 3078 anytime soon?
  • Buff towers into dealing more and true damage, accelerating more quickly. This will give players more reason into considering champions like DrMundo, "true" tanks into the game. Because again, when you give a bruiser the ability to deal enough damage to kill someone who tanking 10 tower shots, why play anything else? With this sort of change now you actually have to consider your team roster and what style of play would be most appropriate.
  • KEYSTONES, I can't believe I left this out.

Until then, I'm sticking to the jungler route, since it's currently the easiest role in the game AND the most influential. I can't remember the last time any ADC or 4/0/1 Lux carried anything when she can be zoned out of the fight by looking at her with a item 3065 while her team gets slaughtered.

175 Comments

zzerakku61 votes

removing keystones would be the first direction to balance the game proberly

Lock On2 votes

I actually left that out for some reason, good catch

Elikain6 votes

No, it wouldn't. If you have a valid solution to the problem, let's hear it. You may believe Keystones are problematic but removing Masteries just because you find them problematic? How is removing a system League has had since it existed, a solution? That would be like claiming that deleting a champion would be "fixing" them.

Let me remind you that the community said the same for the old masteries, which made Riot rework them entirely. One Keystone getting out of line does not equal the entire system being out of line.

Sraeg201315 votes

You may believe Keystones are problematic but removing Masteries just because you find them problematic? How is removing a system League has had since it existed, a solution?

Considering you were playing since Season 3, you should know that Keystones were not a part of the game "since it existed".

And yes, removing Keystones as per their current state, would be a solution.

Elikain3 votes

Don't know from when you've gotten the information about my time in League, i've been playing since before the Season 1. Way back when there was only NA server and i had to play on 200 ping. Merged that account to this one in S3, most likely. That's 7+ years.

About the system that has existed since the beginning in League, i was referring to the Mastery System, not Keystones. Because no one said anything about replacing them, you all talked about their removal.

Nocturniquet7 votes

They're talking about removing the keystones specifically. Before they were ridiculous keystones they were small passive bonuses like "3% increased damage" There's a point at the start of the damage tree that gives 5% lmao.

The problem with keystones is they allow far more damage into the game before. Just look at thunderlords. In no way would an old mastery point be equivalent to a literally 180 (lvl 18) damage plus 30% of your bonus AD proc... That is practically another skill in addition to your other 4.

Suppose your combo did 3000 total damage. 3% of that using the old ferocity point is simply 90 extra damage. Thunderlord's base damage alone is twice that.

Keystones are one of the main culprits for making the game the game is now. Champions like Poppy wouldn't feel unkillable if it weren't for Courage of the Colossus. Or Irelia wouldn't delete people as hard as she does without her health siphoning keystone that hilariously applies to her dash.

Elikain1 votes

Irelia, by the community's standards, has been a problem long before Keystones have been introduced. Using her as an argument makes for a pretty poor one. Pretty much any champion that has been identified as a damage dealer did exactly the same thing before the Keystones.

Soraka has always been annoying with the heals and Windspeaker's doesn't make any difference. But WS has been nerfed when it was introduced in an attempt to balance the mastery for the supports who would use it. Champions that were never a problem are still not a problem. Never heard about that Nami being a problem, for example.

Sraeg20135 votes

You really have problems with reading comprehension.

He explicitly said "not as hard as". Whenever Irelia is a problem DOES NO MATTER, because that is NOT THE SUBJECT of this discussion.

Wimbledofy9 votes

how bad is your reading comprehension? Who said to remove masteries? He said just to remove keystones. And his comment about you playing since season 3 would mean at least season 3 which you should be familiar with knowing keystones didn't exist until recently.

Elikain2 votes

You must be dumber than you appear to be... Removing Kestyones would warrant replacements. Before Keystones, there was just one T6 stat mastery. Which meant only a single option to go down a tree for 21 points. That's it.

And his comment about you playing since season 3 would mean at least season 3 which you should be familiar with knowing keystones didn't exist until recently.

Masteries were reworked when Marksmen received their Class Update. That's the beginning of S6, if you want that timeline (pre-season actually). Why are you mentioning Masteries like Keystones are something entirely different? Masteries were reworked, therefore new Masteries include Keystones. Keystones aren't a separate system.

It's not that hard to understand.

Wimbledofy11 votes

keystones are completely different from normal masteries, I don't understand your point. They could simply revert the mastery system so there are no more keystones.

Hélrè6 votes

Because the system has been garbage since season 1, they've tried a bunch of stuff with the masteries. I don't know how long you've been around man, but they've thrown the entire sink at masteries multiple times. It's been through other iterations before the 'Keystone' setup it is now. It just doesn't work, and they refuse to admit it. The entire system IS busted. A lot of the masteries are either must picks or just absolutely worthless. And to many of the keystones have been reworked and removed because they've been ridiculous.

Honestly both runes and masteries need to be reworked AGAIN, to be something actually not horrible. Or just be removed.

But riot is terrible with this. There's just no debating that. When they delete 'Strength of Ages' because it gave to much power and tankyness. And replaced it with something that gives to much power and tankyness (Colossus). There's just no hope for these people. They've actually learned nothing at all. And no one even uses bond of stone, because in almost all situations it's pretty much worthless and they don't care about that at all. Again, just, they've learned nothing. At all. They keep making the same mistakes over and over and over. It's honestly just difficult to watch.

Elikain1 votes

They've actually learned nothing at all.

And what did you learn as a "valuable" community member throughout the years? Just to complain and talk like you're that one guy who has all the wisdom but never feels the need to share it?

What annoys me the most is people who talk like they know shit but in fact, there's nothing of substance in their comments, just empty words. Was there a message in your comment that was hidden between the lines? Or have you contributed to an actual discussion somewhere, sometime?

"Oh Rito, i am disappoint. You should do better." OK, how? That's too hard for you to think about, isn't it? You have an expectation that Riot should do a better job and yet, you have no fucking feedback to share. So they're supposed to read your mind or something? I bet that you're even lazy to give feedback, you just wait for the right opportunity to pass you by so you can tag along with that one Upvote. Man, you're such a contributor. I'd give you a slow clap but sadly, you can't hear it.

"Removing things from League". Oh, so it's a valid solution to remove something from League ONLY WHEN the community deems it necessary? Because when Riot compares the data and finds a cause for a removal, then it's a no no zone?

You know why SotA was removed? Because it added PERMANENT HEALTH to a champion. Replacing that mastery for a shield generating mastery makes it so that the champion in question has to actually use it when the fight is about to happen to absorb damage, not have free HP for the remainder of the game.

Hélrè5 votes

What are you even talking about? What did I learn? I mean as a rational human being who can notice that hey when you fail a rework FIVE (5) (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) times. Something is wrong. Something in your philosophy is wrong. That should be obvious to ANYONE. But wait, hold up. Lets count the number of failed Ryze reworks, what are we on now, 3 or 4 for that?

And it's not my job, to tell Riot Games how to do their job. If they can't figure it out, me providing 'feedback' a solution to the problem, doesn't help anyone because I don't get a say. Anything I come up with, even though I could come up with something, even if it's the greatest potential solution to the problem. It's a waste of my time. I will not be heard, nor listened to, nor have any contribution to fixing this game. I can identify where their failings are because I'm not an idiot. EVERYONE seems to notice but them, not just me. There are surprisingly a lot of intelligent people that play this game, and a lot of league analysts agree that riot has pretty much shit the bed. So I expect they should do a better job, because it is their JOB. It's not my JOB as a player to fix their game for them. I want a balanced playable experience, not a job in which I have to fix their messes for them for nothing.

"Removing things from league" "Only valid solution when the community deems it necessary." Are you just like, really high? All the time? What are you even talking about. I supported them deleting SotA, because it was over-tuned and they couldn't get it right. And then, it was so stupid of them. Ignoring your dumb semantics. To replace it with something that serves the same purpose to add survivability. And I'm ignoring your semantics because CotC is a bigger offender than SotA was. The shield is huge and over the course of the game will have let you take more damage than SotA ever could. And it can activate even when you're at max health and activate multiple times in a fight. And that is a failure, plain and simple. I can as a human with a brain look and say "Ok, you've failed at two keystone masteries that grant burst tankyness. There is a problem here." And much like Rift Herald, they said they're considering removing it because it isn't impactful enough. And although I believe they should buff it instead, removing it is also a solution. If that's what they want to do. At least it is a SOLUTION. And that's why people suggest removing it (And that is removing Keystones specifically not the entire mastery system, although at this point they probably should just remove it), because it is a SIMPLE SOLUTION. And repeat it with me it is a SOLUTION. And it's a SOLUTION, that Riot Games can't mess up. It is the simplest and quickest solution to the problem.

But I'll humor you for a moment, can you do math? Have you learned math yet? Lets do some math; Max level SotA vs Max level CotC AND 1st level CotC vs 1st level SotA. We'll start with level 1, so first off SotA requires you to build up. So at first level, you get nothing. You (even though there is no siege minion first wave, and even though you're not going to be ganking after killing 1 large monster, we will for the sake of argument give you on stack) get +20 for a siege minion, or +10 for large monster. So early game, you get 20 or 10 health. Against CotC which grants 10 +10 (perlevel) + 5% of your maximum health, and we'll give this to someone currently high in the meta. Hecarim is pretty popular in this meta and has relatively low base health, and ya know what. We'll say that for some reason he has no other masteries or runes (or items, even at max level). So level one with 518 health, so 5% is 25.9 (so 26). So 10 + 10 + 26 we get a 46 health shield, every 45 seconds. To use when trading. Compared to +20 health (that caps at 300), which you can't get until siege minions start spawning, 2:15 seconds into the actual game, as opposed to getting 46 health shields instantly. Then siege minions spawn every 1min 30seconds after their first spawn. So in that time you can get two 46 health shields while trading, when you could only have 1 +20 health. Now at max level, you get a maximum of +300 health putting Hecarim at 2411 with no other buffs whatsoever. However, with CotC we get 10 + 180 (+10 per level) + 105 (5% of 2111) for a total of 295, shield every 30 seconds. With NO health items. And as people who take CotC will buy health items, and Hecarim has a low health pool overall we can know for an INDISPUTABLE FACT, that CotC will provide more benefit overall throughout the game. And we can know that thanks to math.

So my question is; how can you be so daft, as to fail to have basic problem solving abilities. Just because they're a company and it's their game, doesn't mean they know what they're doing. They're people. Plain and simple. And just because someone isn't part of the company doesn't mean they can't determine where the company is failing. The point is, that I and many other people have made is that it's -painfully obvious- where they have failed. And their inability to pinpoint their failures makes them look dumb.

In conclusion; the old masteries weren't working, these new masteries aren't working. The masteries before the old masteries weren't working. Ryze wasn't working, the Ryze before that wasn't working. They NEED to change. There's nothing else to say about it. And the thing is, there isn't just ONE SINGULAR ANSWER. To the contrary there are probably a myriad of things they could do to solve the problem. There are so many potential solutions out there. And yet, what do they do? Make another keystone in the same vein as the one they remove and it's overtuned. It is a farce. Do you understand how OFTEN they do things like that? It happens so frequently that it's become a joke. It makes their company and everyone who works on this game look like a joke.

TheSingularity13 votes

Keystones have caused nothing but trouble since their implementation. Many champions have been nerfed due to their existence

Elikain2 votes

Many champions have been nerfed or buffed regardless of the state of a single system and also accounting for the strength of the items themselves. Don't BS me like this hasn't happened before. It's not going to happen for the last time because that's more way how you can balance the game.

If the interaction between a champion and and item, for example, is too strong even after item adjustments, then the item shouldn't be the only one to take a monumental kick in the teeth, to the point of not even being worth for the rest of the class it was meant for - on the account of a single champion. If they're going to buy that item regardless, balancing them around that purchase isn't uncalled for. One thing is when you push it too far and make them dependent on it to be viable, the other thing is when you reduce the effectiveness of an item to open up more build paths.

TheSingularity7 votes

Brand and cass were nerfed due to dft. Nidalee was nerfed due to SoTa Previous gattling kog was nerfed due to fervor of battle AD malzahar was nerfed due to fervor of battle Naut was nerfed from grasp

Vi and hec will be nerfed due to their power with CotC

They are the only one's I can remember off the top of my had but there are undoubtedly others who abused and in turn were abused by the nerf bat.

Elikain1 votes

Vi and hec will be nerfed due to their power with CotC

Riot already confirmed that CotC will receive more nerfs. No Heca and Vi nerfs will take place until that Kestyone has been looked at.

AD malzahar was nerfed due to fervor of battle

You mean, his off build that Riot doesn't really support but lets it stay in the game because people asked for it? This argument isn't valid one.

Previous gattling kog was nerfed due to fervor of battle

Yea and for a reason. Shitting out 5.0 APS warrants that nerf.

Nidalee was nerfed due to SoTa

No, she wasn't. Her clears were lessened because she was already making the rounds in record time, again and again. This wasn't her first rodeo on the nerf table for super jungle clears and instane ganking potential and SotA was removed for that fact alone - people took it as an easy tanky jungle mastery than using in in the lane. Super clearing junglers had a massive advantage with that mastery.

Brand and cass were nerfed due to dft.

DFT first took a major hit because Brand (and DoT mages) had too much damage way too early into the game. Now Jhin is the only one who can use it well because his scaling is monstrous.

Sraeg20134 votes

You mean, his off build that Riot doesn't really support

They literally reworked him around his AD gimmick. The only reason he isn't built AD are his mana costs and his reliance on Rylai's.

CppL33 votes

3 things they need to do. 1.remove keystones 2.change dragons 3.stop balance game around lcs.

Best princess EU1 votes

{quoted}

3.stop balance game around lcs.

?????????????????????????? you mean lee sin?

because except lee sin no one is balanced around lcs

CppL14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mJ6rFbc3,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-19T12:54:46.130+0000)

?????????????????????????? you mean lee sin?

because except lee sin no one is balanced around lcs

So the fb turet gold is cause of the soloQ???? shorter games ,also cause of the soloQ?

Best princess EU10 votes

it's not balance, it's lcs big plays

Faceroll Tactics22 votes

Why does bot tower not have fortification? LCS

Fb gold for tower? LCS

Jungle Changes? To make LCS more interesting.

Elikain2 votes

Those changes weren't for LCS. They were made to focus efforts from a team perspective on an objective related to bot tower, considering it's also the lane closest to the Dragon pit.

Jungle changes were made because jungling was fucking boring. Just cleared a predefined patch, go gank. Wow, much fun.

Nickssaa13 votes

I'm starting to feel like you're a troll

EndlessSorcerer6 votes

Change #1 to "Rework masteries".

Even ignoring keystones, there remains a massive amount of damage amplification in Ferocity and Cunning with comparatively few defensive masteries.

Elikain2 votes

#Nah.

  1. Apart from obviouus CotC and a few underperforming Keystones, they're fine.
  2. Game was never balanced around LCS. League has only 1-2 patches a year for pro play, every other patch is for our games.
  3. Dragons are fine.
Hélrè6 votes

They stated themselves that they balance around lcs and plat + play. So that's not even a possible valid argument.

  1. Almost all of the masteries are under-performing. And that's a problem because it makes the ones that are over-tuned just that much more noticeable. Like natural talent? +10 AD and +15 AP at level 18 (EIGHTEEN), is actually 100% worthless. With most ap ratios with most champs +15 ap doesn't even amount to +10 damage on their abilities. And even people with 100% AD scaling, +10 damage is pretty much meaningless. Compared to Dblade level lane sustain. It's not even a contest. Bond of stone is garbage, because they've failed to balance the support role, Windspeakers doesn't see play because heal supports don't see play. AP champions can't benefit from anything but Deathfire, Stormraiders, and Thunderlords. And DEATHFIRE, (for being named after the dead item) which is supposed to be the quintessential damage pick up for AP champions deals damage based off of 25% of your AP and 60% (!!!) of your bonus AD, meaning that high ad champs like Jhin get more use out of Deathfire than any AP (Even with 1,000AP it'd be dealing 250 possible damage, but you're not going to get near 1,000AP if you're not picking up infernal drake, and you're building Mpen at all picking up void/abyssal you're not going to be reaching 1,000AP. So you're most likely going to be in the 500AP range with a total possible damage of 125, HOWEVER. You only get 1 tick out of 4, for DOT spells, and 2 for aoe. Which again, is more of a mage thing. AD's have more single target, single hit spells. So, 125 divided by 4, you get 31.25 to 62.50 damage on most mage spells compared to jhin who can get the full 4 second tick.)
  2. Already addressed, look it up for yourself if you don't believe (EVERYONE).
  3. No, simply, no. Infernal and Mountain are over-tuned. Just because of their effects. Compared, cloud and even ocean are worthless. Ocean used to be super worthwhile providing constant lane sustain, but it was good so riot took a dump on it. So now it's pretty much in the worthless category, you only take advantage of it while roaming or if you're forced into a situation where you're not trading with your laner. Cloud is just garbage straight up, they tried to buff it, but it doesn't help much. BECAUSE their buff was 'Hey if you get 3 clouds it's good' which is the dumbest thing imaginable. Then infernal and mountain which both give you a better teamfight or push potential. Early mountain +4 or 5 man bottom and you're pretty much guaranteed the first tower gold, which is just broken. One or two infernals, and just your teamfight power goes up exponentially, especially with high stat champions like Jhin and high AP mages like Veigar. Who will already have high AD/AP and get just that much more while having pretty decent scaling.
Keevalroy16 votes

I have a much bigger list personally.

Address mobility creep beyond stating it's something they're keeping an eye on.

  • Remove ward hops.
  • Increase Fizz E CD.
  • Put Kalista on the rework list along with others mentioned below but immediately remove Martial Poise.
  • Replace Ahri's Q speed with her old Charm amp, and share Fizz ult status effect.
  • Yasuo's movement speed is reduced and E has a real CD now.
  • Rework and re-release Camille/Azir/Kindred/Fiora/Ekko/Lee Sin/LB.
  • Remove Protobelt - you thought the answer to the mobile vs immobile champs...was more mobility...and on top of that, you added AoE burst initiation...wat.

Address power creep since both it, and mobility creep must be hit at the same time, otherwise, if one is hit, the other would possibly become twice as apparent, therefore, twice as problematic.

  • REMOVE KEYSTONES! The season 6 mastery alteration has royally fucked the game, Riot...it's fucked and it's your fault! Stop trying to fix what was built broken and can never be repaired and revert to the Season 5 mastery system. This will go a long way in dialing back the League of Explosions.
  • Yet another Ryze rework (the tanky mana stacking spam identity is the problem.)
  • Revert the Rengar rework.
  • Remove Duskblade - let's give everyone who buys this a mini Zed ult. What's the worst that could happen other than people stacking armor pen (or "lethality") on high burst carries and ranged DPS champs? Oh wait.
  • This last one is a big one: Stop. Overloading. Kits. Just stop. We get it, you want them to feel unique, but holy shit Riot, it's like a fucking arms race with the dev team. You're like a bunch of first graders imagining your own superheroes and comparing them. "Mine can shoot lasers!" "Oh yeah? Well mine can deflect lasers back at him." "No fair. That means mine can absorb the deflection and gain super strength." "Oh yeah? Well after he absorbs it, mine can make him explode because he has too much power now!" "Well now mine can -" STOP....stop that. Fucking stop...

Unnecessary additions or misplaced priorities.

  • Remove plants. Your call if you want to keep jungle buffs out of it since they're apparently some "deep arcane secret shrouded in mystery that only a handful of people have mastered" or whatever you want to believe, but plants need to go.
  • Design for the game instead of the sport - many of us don't give a shit about the pro scene. Shocking, I know, but listen - as has been mentioned since your descent into insanity started, and recently as you've been under this delusion of grandeur that LoL will be a global sport that lasts generations, we were under the impression that you were player-focused, that you would put the players above everything else, and that this was a GAME first, not a SPORT. What happened? Why are the wants of the spectators placed at a higher priority than those who play the game?
  • Stop playing favorites. Enough of this bullshit about how you don't play favorites when you design and balance. Anyone with half a brain can see who you do it with, the most obvious is of course, Lee Sin, and has been for the last 5 years.
  • Stop hiding on Reddit - come to the forums you tried turning into Reddit, and talk with people who can prove they actually play the game. Edit: First tower gold needs to go as well to remove early game snowballing. Edit 2: And wards! How could I forget about Riot's crusade against vision? Sight wards need to be purchasable again. I'd also like to see Sightstone return to 4 wards, and Ruby getting a ward recharge rate added.

And finally, perhaps the most important suggestion I could possibly make, even if you don't want to listen to anyone or anything that goes against what you want to do to your game, is to not do exactly that. Just because you might want Sona to be an artillery siege tank now, or that you want to see Karthus be a hyper-mobile fighter now, or you expect League to be on the sport-level of basketball or something else equally ridiculous, doesn't mean ignore everything that goes against your idea. Most of the time, there are warnings that go unanswered, problems that aren't being fixed because you see nothing wrong, and ideas we know are going to be atrocious, but you go full speed ahead anyway because your egos can't bear to admit you made a mistake, and each time you ignore people who apparently have more game knowledge than any of you, the game gets a little more unhealthy, unbalanced, and less fun to play.

Nostalgia is not the enemy of progress. There's a reason people prefer the old content, and there's a reason every previous season wasn't as bad as the current. Maybe it's not just nostalgia, maybe, just maybe, you're continuing to make the game feel worse and worse to play, and we didn't know how great we had it until we were hit with a new preseason. Just some things to keep in mind.

Euthenaasia3 votes

They have quite blatantly said that they will not nerf Lee Sin dramatically due to his impact in professional play. Which is a complete dumpster fire of a statement. When he can't dash onto wards is when I will be happy.

Joek91002 votes

I pray to the Roman gods that you meant to say INCREASE the cooldown on Fizz's E like make it longer, not shorter.

SlaktarTasken24 votes

The thing about the old seasons (season 3, 4 and the very end of season 5 before Riot decided to throw the game into the blender again especially comes to mind) was that, once you banned out those 100% must ban champions, you generally had room to make 1 or 2 tactical bans depending on which side started banning and have a fairly fun and close game even if you weren't a %%%% metaslave.

Today there are so many champions with broken or semi broken features and strong numbers and so many champions that are utter and complete shit, that I highly doubt any number of bans will allow us to replicate those scenarios.

Grokmir11 votes

{quoted}

The thing about the old seasons (season 3, 4 and the very end of season 5 before Riot decided to throw the game into the blender again especially comes to mind) was that, once you banned out those 100% must ban champions, you generally had room to make 1 or 2 tactical bans depending on which side started banning and have a fairly fun and close game even if you weren't a %%%% metaslave.

Today there are so many champions with broken or semi broken features and strong numbers and so many champions that are utter and complete shit, that I highly doubt any number of bans will allow us to replicate those scenarios.

10 bans per person should do the trick.

Keevalroy7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mJ6rFbc3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-01-19T14:38:58.231+0000)

10 bans per person should do the trick.

Theoretically it would, but the whole "snake draft" thing Riot (more likely the balance team specifically) wants would still allow the cancer champs to go through. You may point out that they mentioned they were looking into regular play being different from pro play in regard the ban system, but let's remember how frequently they feel the need to relate everything to the pro scene so newcomers will feel like they're playing the same game they're watching (on top of frequently going back on their word.)

They need to set up the ban phase as 5 bans per side BEFORE ANY CHAMPION IS PICKED, and if there's constant high ban rates on those specific champs without any deviation from the...let's say top 6 bans...one would think there's a problem - a problem that Riot ought to look into."Why are people banning these champions? Are they overpowered? Are they frustrating? Both? Is it their synergy with our retarded keystones we don't want to separate from? All of the above and maybe more?" But this time, if they're not blinded by their arrogance, they should actually do something about these issues as they become even more apparent.

Blåbæret21 votes

Riot tried to balance everything around pro-play and as a result the game is ruined. It's not even fun to play any more. Individual skill is invalidated in every single game. It's not about tactic or strategy, it's a zergfest. Might as well go play Rush mode in Battlefield.

GayFluffyUnicorn7 votes

The funniest part is that these changes achieved nothing so far. Given it's the first game of the pro season i'm currently watching h2k v og. Yes no lane swap but apart from that, ganks aren't happening that more often or mroe entertaining considering everyone on the team wards and gives his mates information on where the jungler is. Noone is trying to force botlane first blood in the first 5 mins of the game. It's pretty much the same as last season: farm twenty mins, get a pick here and there with way too much resources and group.

Elikain1 votes

It is about team tactic and strategy. The game does not revolve around you as an individual and solely your skill. Your teammates also have to contribute, unless you yourself are a smurfing high ELO player trying to climb on a new account, stomping newbies.

Nickssaa6 votes

It is about team tactic and strategy.

Lolwut?

Mannny5 votes

Then why the hell is Solo Queue a thing if this game is so reliant on your team this season? No one should be forced to get so good at the game to the point where everyone else around them is literal garbage compared to the player. You should be able to climb Ranked based on how much impact you make, not how hard you can carry and go 80/0.

Hélrè3 votes

It's not just balancing around LCS, all of their balance 'strategies' are garbage. I mean, you think they would have noticed after having 4 reworks on the same champion, that have failed that they would take a step back and evaluate their ideas. But they don't at all.

They balance champions around items instead of balancing items around champions. So they say 'Okay, X champion builds Y item. Y item gives attack speed. So to balance this we nerf X champions attack speed. But Y item gives no defense and X champion doesn't have quite enough survivability so we'll give X champion more defense.' Which is how you end up with tank Fizz and Ekko. But they don't know, they just can't figure it out for some reason. It's honestly pretty confusing how they haven't figured out that their ideas and approach towards balance are just absolute garbage.

Then they have Camille, who is just 'Ok lets give her; Mobility, CC, Steroids, Gap closers, give her everything possible' and they're like "WHAAAAAT? How is she overpowered I don't know how that's possible! That's sooooo confusing???" It's just, I don't know what to call it anymore. It's a gross lack of self-awareness combined with so much incompetence.

sobi9992 votes

[{quoted}](name=Honored Bird,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mJ6rFbc3,comment-id=00090002,timestamp=2017-01-19T20:32:26.582+0000)

It's not just balancing around LCS, all of their balance 'strategies' are garbage. I mean, you think they would have noticed after having 4 reworks on the same champion, that have failed that they would take a step back and evaluate their ideas. But they don't at all.

They balance champions around items instead of balancing items around champions. So they say 'Okay, X champion builds Y item. Y item gives attack speed. So to balance this we nerf X champions attack speed. But Y item gives no defense and X champion doesn't have quite enough survivability so we'll give Y champion more defense.' Which is how you end up with tank Fizz and Ekko. But they don't know, they just can't figure it out for some reason. It's honestly pretty confusing how they haven't figured out that their ideas and approach towards balance are just absolute garbage.

Then they have Camille, who is just 'Ok lets give her; Mobility, CC, Steroids, Gap closers, give her everything possible' and they're like "WHAAAAAT? How is she overpowered I don't know how that's possible! That's sooooo confusing???" It's just, I don't know what to call it anymore. It's a gross lack of self-awareness combined with so much incompetence.

Don't worry they'll nerf camille once she gets old enough and they have made their share of profit from her. As for balancing, my issue is they take too long to realize where they went wrong. They need to stop with the mass production of skins and focus on sorting gameplay.

Ahristocats20 votes

cdr on triforce was the most bullshit thing ever

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

well cdr has always been present on it, just not that much. The removal of crit though did gut adc corki though.

Ahristocats1 votes

No, it used to never have cdr, giving bruisers 20% cdr just broke them hard

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

are you sure? i thought it had the 10 percent from sheen. And then when they introduced stinger it doubled to 20.

Ahristocats2 votes

yes but sheen used to never give cdr

The Whamboozler14 votes

The decline happened due to this push for "teamplay" over individual skill.

Honest. Everyone goes on and on about how "teamwork is OP" and team play is great. It is.... when teams have it. Random pug groups don't have it. Solo players lack it. Pretty much any game sans full 5v5 teams on voice chats have teamwork issues. This is a HUGE reason the game is so frustrating. In the early days of league, one good player would stomp lane and then hard-carry the game. Individual skill could carry you very far, and thus a failing bot lane was a thing you'd see and say "Guess I'll carry those guys" not "those @#$% monkeys are going to throw this game". It's just... harder to carry now. The game isn't about individuals anymore... it's shifted towards teams.

Now this is great if you HAVE a team... but most people do not. They have a duo friend, at best. So now those coordination issues that come from your usual solo or duo queue matches seem hundreds of times more frustrating. It's not about doing well personally anymore... it's about holding every lane's hand and making sure no one screws up too hard. Beforehand if a bully was picking on your "children"... (Those poor, sad bastards feeding in bot/mid/whatever) you got to be DAD, and stomp down their base after winning your lane. Now, you're forced to be MOM, and to pop down to baby your teammates every time they need help... because if you DON'T baby them, the enemy will dogpile on them, stomp them out and snowball too hard for you to handle.

Wanna fix the game's balance a bit and make it a ton less frustrating? Remove teleport or do something like only permitting it to teleport you to towers... increase the cooldown too. Might wanna cut down on the champs with global ults too... but that's less a thing. Being able to move around the map quickly, or even attack lanes they're not in like Ezreal should be a potent ability that they pay a lot for. Add more things into the game to punish roaming or leaving your lane... make it a risky action that CAN pay off strong, but can also backfire spectacularly if done poorly. In general, just try to discourage the non-stop 3 or 4 man gangbangs that decide every freaking game. Oh, and make towers matter again. They used to be scary and a serious threat. Remove tower first blood, and try to steer the game back towards a playstyle of one player being able to carry again IF they can get far enough ahead. Not EVERYONE, of course... some champs are still supportive and utility champs after all. Oh... and stop this bruiser/fighter BS. Damage OR durability.... champions who get both are almost always the ones who end up broken... especially if they ALSO have utility and mobility, like almost EVERY new champ and a lot of older or newly reworked ones have.

In short... get off the LCS train and fix the game for the people who play it for fun. THOSE are your customers. E-sports are profitable... but only if your game stays afloat. It does that by having a ton of people who love to play it. So work on making it less frustrating to play, not more balanced for the pros to compete at the highest level. I ASSURE you that any pro will inform you that the game isn't even all that balanced at high level anyway. Pull your heads outta your asses and make the game more fun to play, instead of more fun to WATCH. Or... people will stop playing it. I know I freakin' did months ago.

EndlessIsolation7 votes

The thing I dont understand, is originally they wanted pro and "casual" play to be the same... that way if you see pros do it "you can too". But with changes to, and for the sake of, the LCS why not just split the game already...

Make the LCS balances and changes different then solo queue. Its not like it isn't a different game already anyway. Teams don't scrim in a solo queue environment anyway they play it to practice in a player skill oriented environment if they play solo.

Give pros the tools to scrim better, make LCS/tourney play different from solo play. I can be the first to admit I have had my share of "muh team" but also been part of the opposite. I get put into an unfavorable position, or matchup, and have to get carried... it happens. But this is starting to get ridiculous.

I've pretty much stopped ranked at gold simply because of the changes made during this and last season. I actually quit for a long time because of some of them.

Something drastic needs to be done. Itemization is pretty lackluster (there are no real choices). Damage is insane (I've seen games where people are putting up almost 200k damage in a 45 minute game). Games are over TOO fast. Supports, while having some impact, are still don't get recognition nor do they "feel" good for the majority of players.

I really don't know what can be done though, we lack the information that Riot has and the data collection (we have some...but nowhere near what you do).

EndlessSorcerer5 votes

Honestly, I don't even think the shift towards teamwork is the main issue.

Masteries just provide too much damage amplification and the game snowballs rather quickly (due to FB Tower, Dragons and the aforementioned damage creep).

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