Why does he get to be the tankiest player in any game building off of pure AD and E'ing a few times? What exactly is he trading off? Certainly not damage or resistances. All while playing a ranged marksman with low mana costs and cooldowns equipped with a dash and a slow so any moron can execute with him. Old Graves was more balanced than this shit ever was, period.
GULAG 4 U7 votesGraves trade off is he has pretty much no range.
ApexInTheCircle4 votesGraves trade off is he has pretty much no range.
Tell that to every fucking laner when he comes in. He has no CC but still has decent ganks. He deserves to be nerfed.
dominusx4 votes
are a good thing to have. too bad they are really expencive... oh wai.t
ApexInTheCircle1 votes
Good thing wards stop his Dama- oh shit wait... Well at least they stop him from being so Tank- oh fuck.
dominusx1 votesoh a low range champ is coming to gank me through the river what should i do?
-Walk away -Stay and fight my laner cuz im a gold player and let graves finish me off -be cocky and try to 1v2 cuz ik i deserve challenger
Hm i guess 2 and 3 are the best.
ApexInTheCircle1 votesoh a low range champ is coming to gank me through the river what should i do?
-Walk away -Stay and fight my laner cuz im a gold player and let graves finish me off -be cocky and try to 1v2 cuz ik i deserve challenger
Hm i guess 2 and 3 are the best.
Late game no wards stop his overbearing damage and innate tankiness. He deserves a nerf on either his damage or tankiness or get rid of his dash. because h'e can't have all 3.
dominusx1 votesyou dont fight him late unless you are a stronger 1v1 champ. altho i wouldnt mind some nerfs to his true grit but NOT his dmg dont touch his dmg.
GULAG 4 U2 votesI didn't say he shouldn't be nerfed, but your argument is just salt and doesn't prove that graves has no range.
Hey, I don't like graves too, but I don't just rage about him.
Oelyk2 votesHis ultimate is nothing to laugh at.
LordGeovanni1 votestanks and fighters have the same trade off but every other nerf is to tank and fighters damage and cooldowns
IceKingChernobog2 votesGraves trade off is he has pretty much no range.
Who needs range when you're tanky as fuck while doing stupid amounts of damage.
GULAG 4 U1 votesYou realize I'm not arguing he's op or not, but pointing out one of his flaws? and your argument doesn't change the fact that graves has very poor range.
Anhartamin6 votes[deleted]
Meritas3 votesI haven't seen Graves stacking 8 times his E in a fight. No fight should last this long.
Jet Sett4 votesExactly, what fool fights a champion to their strengths and says it isn't fair that the champ they used beat their own?
LordGeovanni1 votesthe fool that is supposed to have strenths in the same area as the enemy champion but the enemy champion is so powerful there is no chance to beat them.
Jet Sett1 votes
vs 
? Or are there other matchups that are in favor of one over the other you are referring to? I can't think of many champions who are so similar with a clear win over the other.
LordGeovanni1 votesthat fight is usually in jax's favor but jax's e has about a 13 second cooldown and xhin zhao is stronger than jax when he cant use his e and w xhin has better sustain so he has things he can do. versus Darius with his 4 second cooldown q isnt even enough to farm none the less fight each other
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesHe has pretty decent mana costs. He's not super tanky, you either burst him down or you die cause the fight lasts too long and he stacked his e 8 times towards you...
Where's the difference to Fiora? If you don't burst her she will kill you in a fight which lasts a bit longer.
Stop picking 89 mages into graves and get an ad assassin and invade him. Works every time for me.
graves can't 4 hit a tank like fiora.
from someone who plays graves. a juggernaut is an easy counter. darius in a game is a nightmare for graves.
basically have some ad damage. if you pick mages you kind of get rekt because you can't kill him once he gets maw. hell I've had games where I got a spirit visage against 3 -4 ap teams. I can 1v3 and win
Wolfeur5 votes"We'll be looking at Graves in 7.7. Starting belief is that he's too general a pick. First change we'll be testing is removing the MR from True Grit, making him a significantly less attractive pick against Magic Damage heavy teams. Very possible we make other changes in addition, or instead, of that though." — Meddler, literally 3 days ago
Oelyk3 votesWhich is good, this will make him take more damage from Baron(if he is drain tanking it) and also give the poor mage or AP assassin a chance to actually get at him.
Zane Zephyr2 votesThey already said they're looking at taking the MR off of true grit. They also said nerfs for graves are coming in 7.7.
Jet Sett2 votesUnless you're face tanking him like an absolute madman there's no excuse for his resistances to be built up to any significant level, his slow is literally a one-off in any fight because it's CD is so long, his mana costs are actually pretty decent for someone who RELIES on his abilities to survive most fights.
Why is everyone face tanking Graves again? His resistances build up slowly if he isn't dashing towards you, if he's dashing towards you then you either kill him or run away because you weren't meant to kill him. True Grit only stacks when he's auto attacking, stop letting him generate full stacks or stop engaging as soon as he has them.
Seriously, do you people walk into Fizz ult and complain about his W having a "free" proc?
LordGeovanni1 votesand if your champion is designed to face tank enemies or at least on the surfae
dunder kill2 votesOld Graves was more balanced than this shit ever was, period.
Ever you say? Seems like you don't remember when Graves/Annie bot lane was meta. It consisted of them hitting 6 and deleting you over and over again
Frius1 votesim sure you tried too to abuse him ,but you didnt get so op and u came to cry here
lslands1 votesHis perma kite in jungle is the bigger issue to me, besides hes gettin his E nerfed next patch.
LordGeovanni1 votesrather than nerf true grit his q damage and ult damage or cooldown and something for his w should go down. also that knock back versus monsters and minions why is that even a thing. shot gun first think you think of isnt knock back its dead people knock back isnt even considered but the same can be said with any weapon
Great Fox1 votesYou forgot to add the fact that he also deals true damage to you if you're in melee range of him.
