Can Diana Get a Light Rework?

Troy242621·Feb 23, 2015·20 votes·2,432 views

At least some Rito love? Actual love, though, not where they nerf her to pieces and then give her a 1 sec shorter cooldown on something.

"Needs 6 to gank," and "Falls off," is a horrible combination, especially because her lack of escape translates to a meh teamfighter. That's the thing with Diana. "Meh," and "Outclassed."

I LOVE her artwork, her theme is great. However, she perpetuates the mobility issue and I hate tanky damage dealers, so maybe do somethin' with that to give her a CLEAR role and make her excellent at it? 'Cause right now she tries to be a mobile AP bruiser and isn't good at it. ANYTHING but leave her in a "No reason to use," state.

34 Comments

Drunk RummateFeb 23, 201513 votes

haha that's funny

"light" rework like moonlight and sunlight hahaha...hah..ha...

am i the only one laughing?

KaisadiIIaFeb 23, 20154 votes

"Needs 6 to gank,"

So let's destroy Diana mid and Diana top so you can play a non-jungler champion in the jungle. Seems legit

I hate tanky damage dealers

Again, if you hate it, then we all who actually enjoy playing Diana have to pay for it?

give her a CLEAR role

Diversity. Giving "clear" roles kills diversity, it just make champions similar to each other and champion selection ends up being "I want a fighter, who can do it better? Lee Sin? I'll play Lee Sin".

Troy242621Feb 23, 20151 votes

It's almost like Diana was designed to be a jungler,...

I hate the design because it causes them to be either outclass others or be outclassed, as they do everything. Removing what is inhibiting her progress is a good move. I don't mean radically change her kit. I mean keep everything the same, but make it clear whether she should be an assassin, fighter or what have you, then build towards that goal with small tweaks until she can actually compete at her role. Right now, there's little reason to pick her over Nidalee. Back in the day, it was Elise and Evelynn that outclassed her.

Pushing every champion too far towards diversity creates do-it-all generalists and homogenizes the champion pool. I'm not saying she can't excel at two things, but as of right now she is designed as a mobile, tanky burster with sustained damage, not to mention AP itemization.

Celeste BenalFeb 23, 20153 votes

A good Diana player will QRWE, AA a couple times while waiting for Q CD, then Q another target and start all over. If she doesn't get obliterated at the outset she can assassinate multiple champs so long as she has mana.

Mana is Diana's weak point. All her abilities are extremely mana hungry.

Unfortunately, her E is exceedingly underwhelming. It does no damage and has a very short range. If it were to become her ultimate, it would need to be worthy of the skill slot. So much greater range. Or some form of CC. Or perhaps it could simply refund some mana and/or reduce the cooldown on all her skills.

Cuz1972Feb 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mG1mIcOQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-23T19:11:04.595+0000)

Mana is Diana's weak point. All her abilities are extremely mana hungry.

I agree 100%.

PerishSoftlyFeb 24, 20151 votes

I love playing Diana against AD assassin champs or bruisers and first building Frozen Heart. Fixes your mana problems, huge chunk of CDR, and a large discrepancy between the damage you do (which, with hybrid damage from AAs and the hybrid pen runes you should take) to the damage you now take.

100 Armor pretty much shuts down Renekton, Zed, Talon, etc early, while you still have your decent magic damage and you win AA trades due to your innate.

DUDE BROFeb 24, 20151 votes

Her strongest ability costs no mana...

junglerboy16Feb 23, 20153 votes

since when has "falls off" been a descriptor of Diana? She only falls off if she feeds hard, in which scenario, everyone who feeds hard falls off. If anything, Diana steamrolls off of the tiniest lead and becomes really, REALLY strong late game.

AuryielFeb 23, 20153 votes

I can't take you seriously if you think Diana falls off She scales stupidly well with items (3k burst damage if you hit Q), the real problem is her atrociously shitty early game

SwiftKitten88Feb 23, 20152 votes

i really dont know why people are complaining about diana. every time i get a diana on my team she carries us and every time i ger her on the enemies team she carries them. she can mid and jungle both effectively. im more scared of facing a diana mid than i am of fizz. granted i dont play her but from what i can see she seems to be strong enough

Silvereagle11Feb 23, 20152 votes

It's not a rework, it'd be a small buff or a tweak. I hate when people say "rework" for everything cause to me that sounds like you're going to change LOTS of things.

I would target her E as something you could add or change to make it a little more useful something, that also plays off of moonlight, like if someone has a stack of moonlight the slow turns into a small stun or something like that.

Troy242621Feb 23, 20151 votes

Rework means anything more than raw number tweaks.

CreepSquadFeb 23, 20152 votes

Is Diana really that bad? I just played her yesterday as a jungler and got a pentakill with her. It's probably the first time that I have played her in what seems like a year. I felt like she was a little more than balanced.

Link to game: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1739458513/209085287?tab=overview

Also note that the penta happened before I was fed. It happened before I finished nashor's (3rd item after jungle item and boots) and my team was barely ahead total.

WindfallenFeb 24, 20152 votes

Nothing is wrong with Diana. If you truly like to play her you'll make her work. With ease.

Such a great duelist in lane... on top of having her ranged poke. Which is somewhat of a nuke... often dealing killing blows.

More fun to play as and against than akali (imo) and functions quite the same. Diana has a lot easier time farming cs in lane against oppressive ranged champs, which means a lot.

Has more upfront, in your face utility than nid with her cc.. with better survival in melee. The shield is way better than having to switch forms to heal. Less mobile with less range, but Diana's raw power and hardiness makes up for that.

Fizz is now played AD to be relevant.

She has some of the most diverse, viable playstyles. Glass cannon, AP bruiser off-tank and a healthy inbetween. Some people like attack speed and lichbane on her too/// and I consider those people of the glass cannon variety.... but I'm not going to go into how outclassed those two items are on Diana by other purchases :P (I NEVER play her glass cannon unless i'm absurdly fed early on and theres nothing anyone is gonna do about it)

She can also be played Top, Mid, and jungle effectively.

I never feel countered as Diana. Unless camped for my lack of escapes, but even then. I simply feel delayed.

Volt CruelerzFeb 23, 20151 votes

Imo, Diana is one of the easiest champions to fix: swap E and R.

DanofDemaciaFeb 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Volt Cruelerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mG1mIcOQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-23T17:46:55.485+0000)

Imo, Diana is one of the easiest champions to fix: swap E and R.

Yes I completely agree that fixes her zero gank potential pre 6. But after that what about her awful late game. Yeah she can delete squishes but its late game everyone can. Compared to other fighters she simply can't fight.

SmokingPuffinFeb 23, 20153 votes

Diana doesn't have a bad teamfight. She has a feast or famine teamfight. Compare with Akali. Ahead Diana deletes a squishy and then asks the other damage dealers "what are you gonna do about it?" Very low counterplay to ahead Diana is the core problem with her kit. Behind Diana fails to delete a squishy and then is squished.

The main problem with Diana is her amazing fluff. Fluff says make her an assassin, because she's the opposite of Leona. Fluff also says Diana doesn't escape things. So, they made Diana wreck people and then be offtanky. Very in keeping with the best characterization work in League history.

Unfortunately, that assassin->fighter play pattern has never really worked. Doesn't work on Fiora Irelia Poppy Rengar Tryndamere XinZhao ...not good for League.

So, how do we get Diana the awesome character to play well in League? Honestly, I don't know, and I don't think they know either.

DanofDemaciaFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Diana doesn't have a bad teamfight. She has a feast or famine teamfight. Compare with Akali.

Ahead Diana deletes a squishy and then asks the other damage dealers "what are you gonna do about it?" Very low counterplay to ahead Diana is the core problem with her kit.

Behind Diana fails to delete a squishy and then is squished.

What are they gonna do about it? Kill her most likely. The problem with her late game is she's a fighter who can't fight. Or an assassin who's assassination tactics rather unreliable compared to other assassins.

SmokingPuffinFeb 23, 20152 votes

I think Diana's assassination is quite reliable. Land a Q, press R twice, thing is dead. Maybe not as reliable as Talon, but certainly competitive with Zed or LeBlanc, and they see tons of play.

The problem with pure assassin Diana is that she's a cruise missile. Trading your mid laner for the enemy ADC isn't all that great an upside case when you consider the risk. It's definitional to the class that they have a way out again after making the kill.

What are they gonna do about it? Kill her most likely.

Sounds sad. =(

DanofDemaciaFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Diana's assassination is quite reliable. Land a Q, press R twice, thing is dead. Maybe not as reliable as Talon, but certainly competitive with Zed or LeBlanc, and they see tons of play.

The problem with pure assassin Diana is that she's a cruise missile. Trading your mid laner for the enemy ADC isn't all that great an upside case when you consider the risk. It's definitional to the class that they have a way out again after making the kill.

Sounds sad. =(

Lol yeah that's my point though she can't get out like an assassin should and she can't survive like a fighter. She just needs a defined kit she's a fighter mage assassin who unlike Lee sin doesn't do any to well.

Volt CruelerzFeb 23, 20151 votes

Calling Diana a cruise missile is perhaps the most perfect analogy I have ever heard for any champion. Well done.

Volt CruelerzFeb 23, 20151 votes

I think this might be the best way to get her viable...

swap E and R, upping the radius on old E by 50-75 units or so
check where she stands. If she's good, stop. If not, continue.
reduce base damage on Q, up Q ratio, reduce W base shield, switch W shield from AP scaling to bonus health scaling, reduce Q cooldown
check her standing
upon breaking all W balls, Diana gains a movement speed boost

After 1, jungle Diana's viability should skyrocket. After 3, there should be more differentiation and viability for both glass cannon and off-tank builds. After 5, we've finally given in and given her an escape.

SmokingPuffinFeb 23, 20151 votes

upon breaking all W balls, Diana gains a movement speed boost

That's a really cool design idea.

BlainezyFeb 23, 20151 votes

I love her. I started playing her more recently since DFG removal. I've been doing extremely well. I would just say that her E is her problem. All of her abilities elsewhere are great. The E is just total garbage. The slow is nice to keep up with your second R, but it could still be better. Her W is iffy for me. I feel like it's strong, but still kind of missing something. Maybe a higher AP ratio or just more flat damage. Or an increased shield buff. Or maybe even another twist completely and allowing it to also apply moonlight for her ult proc refund.

VelocityVoltFeb 23, 20151 votes

In 9 ranked games with her i have a 44% win rate with a kda of 2.67:1 (10.9/6.7) and not to sound like that whiner but 2 of those games had afks :3. That aside i think she is a wonderful midlane champ who counters currently very strong mid laners (katarina. Ahri). I think the problem moreso lies in how people are building her. I feel that items like nashors tooth. While it seems like it would be the logical choice. Actualy lets her down. I build roa into a deathcap and i dont need the extra attack speed. You line up her cleave just like a master yi double strike and then take it to them. With full build i have achieved a cleave of somewhere in the 700s! And thats before q w r damage. I like where she is now. I wouldnt change her at all Diana

JimmyNtheKudosFeb 23, 20151 votes

Actually, with a lot of nerfs to mid laners I've had success with Diana. I won my first two placement matches with her. She falls off kinda hard late game, as it becomes harder and harder to take someone out. However, her early and mid game are very strong. If you push objectives early, you can secure a win for your team. Also, Diana's pre-6 is considered to be "weak." I think this is wrong, her Q does quite a bit of poke, her W does damage and shields, while her passive deals extra damage people don't expect. I've gotten a few first bloods because people underestimated Dianas pre-6 damage.

KoKobotoFeb 23, 20151 votes

I like playing tanky Diana, I do a lot of damage and also am tanky also I like fighter Diana more, Q-R-R is dull and boring AF like "Dam Q-R-R outplayed" uhhh no.... fighter is nicer

Teridax68Feb 24, 20151 votes

When Diana was released, I loved her Moonfall (E). When she pulled in her opponents, it genuinely felt like they were jumping through moon-like gravity. Unfortunately, that was one of the first parts of her kit to get nerfed, and I think the decision to keep her burst at the cost of that more unique power was a mistake. I also feel her ult isn't implemented in as interesting a manner as it could be: right now, Diana players use it to double-tap for a large amount of burst, and I think that's one of the least interesting uses for the ability. It would be a lot more interesting if Diana could chain Crescent Strikes and Lunar Rushes to continuously and relentlessly chase her opponents, but that would likely require decoupling her ult's mobility from its damage, which would be a massive nerf on its own.

There was a Rioter who, a while back, suggested a quick set of changes to Diana that involved placing a ton more power onto her passive, giving her more CC/utility and reducing her burst, and I feel that would be the right direction to take her. Diana's always been stuck between a bruiser and an assassin playstyle, and I feel it's the bruiser-ish parts of her kit (her E, her W shield/orbs of death) that make her most interesting. As an assassin, it also doesn't look like she can be healthy and viable at the same time, due to the amount of defenses and CC in her kit and an innate lack of escapes, so turning her into a target-chasing bruiser would likely be the best thing that could be done for her.

LilxPaprikaFeb 24, 20151 votes

I think buffing lichbane and rageblade would do the trick. If lichbane could life steal then it would pair well with either rageblade or gunblade. Get ad on Diana you ask? Preposterous. I would beg to differ though since she has an attack speed steroid in her kit that helps her get auto off with a bit of sustain too. If rageblade had 20% spellvamp too would be nice.

AwoofFeb 24, 20151 votes

Well, if my memory serves me right, rioters would have liked to make her more like an AP-bruiser than an assassin, but too many preferred her assassin role, so I guess they kinda didn't know what to. (I'd say because there is much less unique about her assassin traits than about her fighter traits, but that's just me)

JunkοFeb 24, 20151 votes

Everytime i'm against Diana our mid laner feeds her and then she solo carries the game 1v5. Nothing wrong with her.

Also do you really want a light rework after seeing what they are doing to champs like Veigar? Inb4 E now has a .75 sec delay because instant knockback and slow had no counterplay

Raith AlghulFeb 24, 20151 votes

I've been suggesting for a while that they change her E to a ground-targeted ability(think chogaths rupture but imediate), so she could CC people she wasn't already on top of and also use it for disengage.