How long are you going to let Rengar 1 shot squishies with just 2 damage items?

DunkinNoobs·Jan 23, 2017·58 votes·4,284 views

Because this is the standard Rengar build now. . He kills squishies in <2 seconds with these items. The fact that this is a viable build on Rengar is an absolute abomination. And worse, not only is it viable, it's ideal. This is how high elo Rengar players build nowadays. Turns out you don't need a ton of damage items when your Q is on a 2.4 second CD and does 230+140% bonus AD damage and resets your auto attack. Don't even get me started on his retarded cleanse/CC immunity on his empowered W that's up every 4-5 seconds or so later on in the game.

65 Comments

Synnx7Jan 23, 201716 votes

" GIVING PLAYERS MORE TIME TO REACT" proceeds to one shot everyone, even in the video. I start to question myself if riot champ balance /design is either incompetent or mentally challenged.

3TWarriorJan 23, 20177 votes

the biggest issue is that they stopped playing their own game around the season 5 preview...then they focused entirely on balance decisions with no idea of how players were reacting

then, they started using Reddit over the official forums to "listen" to the playerbase

MetalGearTeemuJan 23, 20171 votes

easy to sit in an echo chamber where everyone fluffs ya rather then take hard truth from your angriest players.

I still remember them swearing up and down the "boards" werent going to turn into an unboat!XDXD farming reddit clone. Sure worked out great didn't it?

Can we maybe get the old forums back if these are just here to fucking look blue and post stickers on?[zombie-brand-clap]

3TWarriorJan 23, 20171 votes

lol, I stopped watching riot videos awhile ago when their test champion videos showed how "durable" a tank was when 3 autos from the un-aided ADC took 40% of it's hp XD

CowseedJan 23, 20171 votes

Well I saw a nerf Aatrox post with upvotes the other day so I can understand why they wouldn't want to be around -this-.

MelledoneusJan 23, 20173 votes

That was a tongue-in-cheek post.

CowseedJan 24, 20171 votes

But still looking at some of the comments I was convinced that people were still thinking he's broken. Maybe it was juts my imagination.

MelledoneusJan 24, 20171 votes

People like to play around. You can track the serious comments and the joking ones based on the upvotes and downvotes. Usually.

King LeBongJan 24, 20171 votes

Reddit has a much larger amount of people actively using it, and whether you like this statement are not, most of them are much much smarter.

The boards is filled with extremely unreasonable ideas and awful mindsets while Reddit tends to be groups of thousands of different people pitching realistic ideas and debating topics, there's also many more high elo players that use Reddit over the boards, as the boards has basically no game knowledge and bandwagon extremely hard.

YuGiHoJan 23, 20174 votes

they should give rengar global cooldowns like sona so he cant use all his skills in under a second

Rengar Top LaneJan 23, 20176 votes

{quoted}

they should give rengar global cooldowns like sona so he cant use all his skills in under a second

Lol, no. Just should admit the rework was too strong and revert til they can figure out what is the best thing to do with Rengar.

YuGiHoJan 23, 20179 votes

he was just as bad pre rework though

AhristocatsJan 23, 20177 votes

thing with old rengar is that he was able to use all his spells while leaping

like old 2013 kha'zix

Rengar Top LaneJan 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

he was just as bad pre rework though

Least he didn't heal for 100% of damage deal, free qss, and have a 30 sec ult duration

Golden Tager XJan 23, 20177 votes

Old rengar at least had to build it to oneshot you though.

AtanchanJan 24, 20171 votes

That's a matter of numbers, not kit design.

IceKingChernobogJan 24, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sinister Rengar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mFrH7JBT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T07:58:20.701+0000)

Lol, no. Just should admit the rework was too strong and revert til they can figure out what is the best thing to do with Rengar.

Riot will never admit it.

NightmareAmazoXJan 23, 20174 votes

They gave birth to another Assassin building hybird tank. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

TwitchInMyPantsJan 23, 20174 votes

To be fair champs like Kha, Camille, Pantheon, Talon, ect can one combo you with two items if they manage to close the distance without wasting spells. Rengar just has the easiest time because of his unmissable ult.

Ulquiorra995Jan 23, 20171 votes

I think his W is the biggest offender. Sure, Talon and Pantheon might kill you within one combo - but it isn't instant. They can be CC'd or bursted - you just might get a chance to fight back or run.. Rengar is not - he shrugs of CC along with receiving a massive heal and trying to run is insanely hard with Q lunge and E slow. Counterplay other assassins received in the update just isn't there for Rengar.

3TWarriorJan 23, 20172 votes

pantheon can only do that early game. Late game his ultimate is the majority of his damage whereas his other spells simply fall off. Even squishies can withstand his onslaught lategame

Sylvan LoreJan 23, 20173 votes

For starters, the build you have shown is nt nearly as effective as what most hybrid Rengar builds are doing. The arguably most important part of the build is the high Cdr to get your combos out so boots of lucitity in most cases are the only option.

Why is this something you make sound exclusive to rengar? Anyone with two damage items, from vi to jarvan to shaco, can (and should be able to) 1 shot a champion that has built no defensive stats and is away from the support allowing them to have such a greedy build. This new rengar build just makes him less of a crit monster and more like an Olaf, which seems like a large improvement.

A Vel Koz MainJan 23, 20171 votes

You know that is 40% cdr, while also being tanky, sustain, and dishing out damage, his scaling allows him to do an absurd amount of damage, and to be fair, no, this would not be as effective on everyone. And if they can build 2 items and 1 shot anyone, there is time to react. Rengar is instant, which is the issue especially with a build like this. He can walk away, and come back full health in a matter of seconds, and just do it again, and again, and again. Unless your entire team focuses him, he isn't going to die unless he makes a bad play which is hard to do as any assassin. The only legitimate people that should be killing squishies are full damage assassins, full combo mages, and prolonged tank fights. But that's not the case here. Rengars scaling is a problem, but item stats are also a problem. Damage overall is a problem. It needs to be taken down.

NuparuJan 23, 20171 votes

10% CDR runes are a common thing for Rengar so he doesn't need any more CDR than Warrior (or Ghostblade) + Cleaver.

Rengar Top LaneJan 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sylvan Lore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mFrH7JBT,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-01-23T15:33:35.294+0000)

For starters, the build you have shown is nt nearly as effective as what most hybrid Rengar builds are doing. The arguably most important part of the build is the high Cdr to get your combos out so boots of lucitity in most cases are the only option.

Why is this something you make sound exclusive to rengar? Anyone with two damage items, from vi to jarvan to shaco, can (and should be able to) 1 shot a champion that has built no defensive stats and is away from the support allowing them to have such a greedy build. This new rengar build just makes him less of a crit monster and more like an Olaf, which seems like a large improvement.

It's mercs/tabis/mobis not cdr boots anymore. You get 40% cdr with just warrior, cleaver, and 10% in runes.

Spaceman5pffJan 23, 20173 votes

Akali item 3146 item 3285 Annie item 3165 Ekko item 3100 Fizz Katarina Leblanc LeeSin item 1400 item 3071 Syndra

What was that about 2 damage items on burst mages / assassins?

Recruit RushFeb 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What was that about 2 damage items on burst mages / assassins?

Fizz item 1056 Katarina item 1001 Syndra item 2055 Fixed that for you, thats what they need to oneshot you x'D

ADC5LUTJan 23, 20173 votes

Yah the highlight of the assassin rework was when they released the videos of assassins allowing their opponents more time to react as rengo literally 1 shot a squishy.

JunkοJan 23, 20173 votes

I'm just guessing whoever was the editor of the video hated Rengar and got fired later for showing his rework was a failure.

HibekiJan 24, 20172 votes

An assassin doing his job? WOW!

Meanwhile Lux deletes an ENTIRE TEAM with just item 3089 item 3165

NineTailedMysticJan 24, 20171 votes

If Rengar can instaburst a squishy, what was the point of his Update?

The Yetii RiderJan 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If Rengar can instaburst a squishy, what was the point of his Update?

Points of Rengar's Update:

Rengar's out of combat stealth could not be considered 'Invisibility', as it would be essentially stronger than Evelyn with the changes to pink wards. Because of this, Riot had to at least touch him in the coding to alter his ultimate to be Camouflage instead.
The point of Rengar's update was not to increase the window that it takes to burst someone down, but instead to increase the time the enemy team has to respond to it. With a global sound and indicator that you are being hunted from a significantly greater distance and with a much clearer and more visible icon, the hunted targets are capable of grouping up, warding, readying peel, falling back to towers, there's lots more counterplay now.

NineTailedMysticJan 24, 20171 votes

The point of Rengar's update was not to increase the window that it takes to burst someone down.

The overarching goal of the Assassin Update was to slow bursts to reactable speeds.

The Yetii RiderJan 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The overarching goal of the Assassin Update was to slow bursts to reactable speeds.

Yes, but that did not apply to Rengar.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 24, 20172 votes

I've done it as Diana, Talon and even MF. I dont' think Rengar is the only champion who does this, I just think he's infamous for it. Remove the guaranteed Crit from his Leap and buff his Base AD and he'd be balanced.

The Yetii RiderJan 23, 20171 votes

Squishies are supposed to be squishy. Assassins are supposed to kill them.

Why does it matter if I kill you with two items at 40 minutes when I could do it at 18 minutes? Has the squishy's defense improved that much? Maybe 200 more base health and 30 more base armor?

If a powerful assassin is one shotting you, build some damn defense like everyone else in the game who falls behind. "But I can't do enough damage if I don't have six damage items" Yeah because dealing 0 damage after you get one shot is better than dealing slightly less damage before you die.

sobi999Jan 23, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mFrH7JBT,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:33:15.443+0000)

Squishies are supposed to be squishy. Assassins are supposed to kill them.

Why does it matter if I kill you with two items at 40 minutes when I could do it at 18 minutes? Has the squishy's defense improved that much? Maybe 200 more base health and 30 more base armor?

If a powerful assassin is one shotting you, build some damn defense like everyone else in the game who falls behind. "But I can't do enough damage if I don't have six damage items" Yeah because dealing 0 damage after you get one shot is better than dealing slightly less damage before you die.

The issue is not that assasins are killing suiqhies. it's the fact that an assassin can jump under your turret, kill you in 1 sec and go back to safety. Hell someone like Zed is never unsafe. Now this leaves no counterplay for squishies and lets say you warded appropriately, you will still get dumbed because well assasins can jump like frogs. Take my example, i was lux and i Q'd a chasing Kat. Then flashed and Healed and she still caught up without using flash and probably killed me with 2 dagger spins and the distance traveled during that kill was also minimal. Not fun at all when the assasins are rewarded so easily. Although tanks that deal damage comparable to adc's are the real issue for now. Too many fkd up decisions by riot, i hope they are losing their audience and soon revert the changes.

Lastly, if squishies build defense items, they will never be able to kill tanks. Maybe 1 defense item maybe optimal but anymore will be useless on adc's.

The Yetii RiderJan 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The issue is not that assasins are killing suiqhies. it's the fact that an assassin can jump under your turret, kill you in 1 sec and go back to safety. Hell someone like Zed is never unsafe. Now this leaves no counterplay for squishies and lets say you warded appropriately, you will still get dumbed because well assasins can jump like frogs. Take my example, i was lux and i Q'd a chasing Kat. Then flashed and Healed and she still caught up without using flash and probably killed me with 2 dagger spins and the distance traveled during that kill was also minimal. Not fun at all when the assasins are rewarded so easily. Although tanks that deal damage comparable to adc's are the real issue for now. Too many fkd up decisions by riot, i hope they are losing their audience and soon revert the changes.

Lastly, if squishies build defense items, they will never be able to kill tanks. Maybe 1 defense item maybe optimal but anymore will be useless on adc's.

ADCs with pure burst can't kill tanks either if they die instantly to assassins.

The risk of picking a squishy champion and building no defensive items is that you die before you're useful. Assassins should be killing Lux MF and Caitlyn with little trouble.

3TWarriorJan 23, 20171 votes

the problem though is that marksmen are almost entirely reliant upon their auto attacks except for the rare exceptions (like caitlynn, sivir, jayce, etc) who can function by using their abilities.

picks who are unable to function using abilities other than early game (ashe, jinx, vayne and the like) have their damage potential cut drastically by becoming non-functional in their class except in the hands of very skilled players that overall, are less worth the time to master when so much more can be done with the simple rotation characters

if you take the time to make a marksman tanky to not be burst down in an instant, the marksman's damage drops drastically

there might be a surge of hybrid marksmen eventually though with maybe 3 damage items, 2 tank and boots

The Yetii RiderJan 23, 20171 votes

That's not really an issue. A marksman's primary goal should be survive until the end of a fight so you're alive to push towers after. You don't need more than one AD and one AS item to push effectively.

People just think marksmen should also contribute to team fights and kill others. Now that that's becoming harder to do, marksmen players need to adapt and refocus. Let someone else kill the tank, it's better than you blowing up instantly because you built 6 items with no defenses.

3TWarriorJan 23, 20171 votes

perhaps, but that is not how they were designed. Would you honestly play a champ (unless you were splitpushing the entire time) whose only job it is is to sit and wait for minions or a distraction to beat on the tower?

NineTailedMysticJan 24, 20171 votes

The league of bruisers is not an ideal game state.

The Yetii RiderJan 24, 20173 votes

{quoted}

The league of bruisers is not an ideal game state.

The league of marskmen has persisted for six years. Nothing wrong with mixing it up for a year or two.

NineTailedMysticJan 24, 20171 votes

I'm not referring to the bruiser class, I'm referring to everyone becoming a bruiser by needing defensive items in their builds.

The Yetii RiderJan 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm not referring to the bruiser class, I'm referring to everyone becoming a bruiser by needing defensive items in their builds.

How is that unhealthy? Everyone building a mix of damage and tank, except supports and tanks. Seems like a perfectly healthy meta to me.

idontgiveabotherJan 24, 20171 votes

Why would they revert it? Thats the counterplay they were preaching about! /s

Unlucky47Jan 24, 20171 votes

as a corki who had trin force I can confirm that rengar only needs warriors to kill you with 1 rotation

Variks the LoyalJan 24, 20171 votes

How hard is it to group up, jesus.

If Rengar uses his W cleanse, his damage is gutted. If he uses his Empowered Q, he can be focused and killed.

Yes, CC is still the answer. Sure, he might be able to cleanse and run away, if he has full Ferocity available to him, which he shouldn't if you CC him as he leaps.

Just group up. Unless he's fed, a Rengar won't jump onto an ADC shouldered by a Tank and a Fighter.

48983507DEL1Jan 24, 20171 votes

Except he doesn't 1 shot squishes unless he is legitimately fed out of his mind. Like, 6/0/4 at the 12 minute mark fed.

If that's not the case, yea he can probably 1v1 a squishy target easily, but it takes at least 2-5 seconds to do it. And that's only if that target is caught out alone.

During a teamfight, there's almost no way Rengar can punch through a squishy target's entire HP bar before that target is healed, shielded, and Rengar is exhausted. He'd also have to use his empowered Q, which means he can't ignore CC, which means he's VERY easily peeled off.

You're definitely taking your argument to the extreme. Rengar is a bruiser. In a normal circumstance, he's not going to 1 shot anyone. Again, if he's hyper fed, then that's a different story, but that goes for pretty much every champion.