Lee Sin currently has a 51.5% winrate and a 32.5% pickrate. Where's the rage? Where's the calls for a gutting? You guys complain about Lee when he was way worse than he is now, and I'm disappointed in you all for slacking in your Lee QQ just because Vayne is the hot topic of the day. Surely the members of Gameplay and Bronze can manage to muster some hate for their leading all time QQ target.
Saianna48 votesLee Sin currently has a 51.5% winrate and a 32.5% pickrate.
From day one he was like this +/- 2%.
And Riot didn't give a fuck. Instead they would buff him whenever he'd drop below 50%.
Meh
Auz the Ripper20 voteswe've grown numb, we don't even care anymore. it took 5 or 6 years but it's finally happened.
Saianna1 votesit took 5 or 6 years but it's finally happened.
Did he get buffs again?
Lemme guess: true damage with built in execute and spell vamp with 1.1 AD ratio.
Am I right?
RainbowIcee7 votesnah they just nerfed everyone else to the ground so they wouldn't be able to fight him anymore. He's already able to instant gibbed you early game with 1 item.
Veltox33 votesLee is dealing damage you can't build against?No His damage is avoidable?dodge his q and position properly. High mobility?It's conditional. Retarded invisibility you can't counter anymore?No. Here's why i hate Vayne instead of Lee Your point?
Vesemir13 votesDodfe Q he will jump to ward and kill you. Not to.mention his low CDs. Or his 700+ damage dealing ult with a cleaver. His base damage is ridiculously high. He kills anyone on 1v1. He nukes you with a serrated dirk, 100-0 you with one combo meanwhile assassins do no damage before getting 2 items.
Veltox7 votesCuz Lee can do a fkton late game amirite?
Verdade7 votesActually, with lethality changes he got much stronger late-game.
GULAG 4 U7 votesHe can still one shot an adc late : ^)
Stormshadow35035 votesAt least I can lock him down with 
unlike 
or 
The 2nd Horseman2 votesI mean idk about you but being in a position where lee using one of his damage abilities and then relying on e, ult, and autos to kill you is a bit rarer compared to vayne who farmed all game and was given movespeed when chasing someone, a dash on a fairly low cooldown, and invisibility. Oh and I guess she can have a knockback and stun when other adcs get a delayed root or slow at best.
Ha1man5 votesLee has a 260% ad combo if you dodge his Q.
460% if you don't, though.
However, compared to 420% ad crits from vayne every 2 seconds without any skill involved, that does not look that impressive.
Ariel the Cruel8 votesDon't worry, Rito will undoubtedly address this.
They'll buff Lee again.
Then Nerf Vayne.
. . . 2AD.
Sir Fuzzi1 votes4 AD nerf. Nobody can play tank Ekko now, it's over.
Next, they'll pull 4 AD from Yasuo. God forbid you should have to consider your strategy for four damage.
Both champions suffer from jilted designs though, when the icon of the design is something so significant you have to compensate really heavily.
Saianna4 votesdodge his q and position properly.
As much as i want to believe you are right, the world doesn't work that way, unfortunately.
What is the difference between good Lee (lets say gold 1+) from bad/mediocre Lee (Gold 1 and below)?
It's the way of their gank initiations.
Good one does NOT use his Q to gap close. He just runs towards you. Because Lee has one of best base MS, it's easy. Only then, when he is point blank does he use Q. If you use flash = you lost, if he caughts up to you = you lost. So.. You lsoe no matter what.
Bad Lee starts with Q and after gap closing he has pretty much nothing to harm you with, se he just AA's u few times and hopes his R/ignite will finish the job.
Sir Fuzzi1 votesWhere are you fighting Lee? You need a champion who brings something that can catch him in that point. If he's running at you and his Q/Q needs to catch you on the getaway, then your prime objective is pulling your getaway into an extremely unfavorable position for him where he'll either not take it or land you a kill. If your champion is getting pressured by raw fact of Lee pressuring that champ, you need to consider a better pick.
If you're deep, you need vision coverage. If you're getting caught out alone, bring a friend and accompany that teammate closely. If he's punishing you for initiating on his team, try to CS and keep them from pushing your turret down. While he's busy pressuring your lane, make note for your team so your jungle can help or gank elsewhere, or else notify your team (as jungle) where you'll be applying the heat and advise the ganked lane to bait him by going on the defensive. It might not be an objective, but if you waste three minutes of his time while he has to pussyfoot around the turret and your support, or you're top lane and you can keep him busy enough for a gank to go off, that's as good as you're getting. It's not about making the showstopping play-- it's about winning the game, and not flubbing the lane for your team. It's not glorious play, but hugging the turret to buy some time sure beats getting your ass kicked in the middle of the lane with no cover because you had to be on the front. If Lee Sin consistently beats you, play around that outcome. You might not stop him dead and conquer him, but if you can delay the presumed inevitable then you're doing more favours over risk-taking and hoping you land a kill that actually applies pressure.
Just because he's oppressive, doesn't mean you can't adapt your plays. If you never improvise your strategies, your enemies will know them better than you do.
GULAG 4 U5 votes88% of vayne's damage is physical. Quite possible to itemize against her.
Stormshadow35033 votesThen Vayne builds 
arcinex2 votesOP is just crying because he probably got his ass handed to in a recent game by a lee sin. And I wager his sample size to be = 1 game. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
notmebuthim19 votesTanks are also hiding in the Vayne is OP shadow.
See You At Baron4 votesTanks are also hiding in the Vayne is OP shadow.
weeaboomer2 votesTanks are also hiding in the Vayne is OP shadow.
Tanks coming back up and the anti tank carry sees play and relevance? better gut her. This reminds me of the cinderhulk era, where this same shit happened.
DunkinNoobs12 votesI've seen more people defend Lee in just this thread than I have on the entire boards for the past year. I'm both amazed and disgusted. What happened to the Gameplay and Bronze that I knew and hated?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo9 votesrage for what? 51% seems perfectly ok ... oh wait... nope cant have a champ with a positive win rate unless its like urgot , galio , aatrox
DunkinNoobs18 votes"something something 51% winrate something something high skillcap champ something something 32% pickrate something something omfg 200% AD ratio ulti Rito nerf NOW."
oSEXYPLATYPUSo16 voteslee has been the highest picked jungler for patches now... going back at least 5 ... and his win rate is 16th among junglers according to http://na.op.gg/champion/leesin/statistics/jungle with 50.69%
http://champion.gg/champion/LeeSin/Jungle
according here he is #1 picked but also the 8th most banned jungler.. and his win rate goes to shit at 25 mins in game but is highest win players have over 125 games on him ( which mean skilled players of the champ ) but for those casual lee sin players have 15-50 games his win rate is lowest
DunkinNoobs8 votesWhy are you even here? You present logic and reason when I clearly asked for rage and tears. We HATE Lee around here; no exceptions. Anyone who tries to defend him is either a Lee main or a Riot shill. Get with the program man.
JQKAndrei1 votes125 games with lee doesn't make anyone skilled with him. At all.
Battlecast Sona11 votesI would hope that 125 games with any champ would impart you a modicum of skill with that champ, and the winrates support it, so...
ShaolinToilet2 votesExcept for annie
weeaboomer1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IovElAAw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-17T07:40:53.738+0000)
lee has been the highest picked jungler for patches now... going back at least 5 ... and his win rate is 16th among junglers according to http://na.op.gg/champion/leesin/statistics/jungle with 50.69%
http://champion.gg/champion/LeeSin/Jungle
according here he is #1 picked but also the 8th most banned jungler.. and his win rate goes to shit at 25 mins in game but is highest win players have over 125 games on him ( which mean skilled players of the champ ) but for those casual lee sin players have 15-50 games his win rate is lowest
Like vayne.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesand i have stated more then once i dont have issues regarding vayne and that i only seen her 5 times in my game over the last month or so... twice i faced her top lane and won both games and the 3 others i was support and won 2 of 3 for a total of 4 of 5. is she strong? yea, is she a bitch to deal with ? yea... do i cry about it on the boards? nope i try to find ways to beat it and win games.
im my personal experience of playing league there has only been a handful of champs that were clearly over powered/broken to the point of unfair. the one that comes to mind is the reign of terror 
where he was 100% picked or banned even in pro ranks.
and there is no way to have a perfect balance because depending on person what equates to a balanced win rate is subjected to the champ.. i had a post where i said what is an acceptable win % for vayne... 47%? 50%? 51% and people said due to her "skill level" anything over 47% was overpowered.
when a perfect balanced game all 133 champs would be at 50% +/- .5 % ?
and with a game that changes from week to week, with items, masteries, new champs, nerfs , buffs, nonstop it is impossible to achieve a so called "perfect balance" and one could theorize that the balance comes from things being imbalanced.
all i know is if a champ is strong people cry except those who like the champ... and if someones champ is weak they cry ...
and no one will ever relate it to their personal skill level of the game... and or the people they play with or against...
same things goes for people who have bad games... and people get flamed for it blamed by teammates and creates a toxic game environment. and yes somewhat its is that players fault.. but also give the other players/team credit.
Sir Fuzzi1 votesBut taking responsibility for your losses is for god damn nerds, nerd.
vampirekid139 votesvayne has always been more hated than lee sin.
DunkinNoobs8 votesYou guys are failing really hard at this so far, I have to say. Where's the blind Lee Sin rage? Where's the lengthy exposition on how every single of his abilities is completely broken? Where's the listing of everything in his kit with accusations of being overloaded?
Rengar Downey Jr7 votesFlint Michigan still doesnt have clean water Kappa
Swiftstrike44 votesLee really only feels good in the hands of a good champion. My guess is his win rate and play rate are going to continue to climb because his early clears are pretty good. Right not some of the jungle camps are pretty tough of several junglers.
I rather complain about 
being really good with the changes to the jungle and is pretty much a power farmer that doesn't sustain too much damage while doing camps and still deals quite a bit of damage early in the game.
In about two weeks graves will have a super high play rate, just because clearing jungles is hard for several champions.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Graves
base on this he has a lower win rate then lee.. and over all win rate of 50.04% and only a win rate above 50% for those who have more then 125 games on him...
i think graves could see a higher pick rate... but i also see tanky cc junglers coming into play as well due to the "assassin" meta people are saying is happening...
but as it is of now he seems pretty balanced
Swiftstrike43 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IovElAAw,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-11-17T08:42:13.432+0000)
http://champion.gg/champion/Graves
base on this he has a lower win rate then lee.. and over all win rate of 50.04% and only a win rate above 50% for those who have more then 125 games on him...
i think graves could see a higher pick rate... but i also see tanky cc junglers coming into play as well due to the "assassin" meta people are saying is happening...
but as it is of now he seems pretty balanced
Yeah it is pretty even now, I think it will take some time. I don't think he is OP, but I do think that his itemization route is/will be changing and Lethality may be really strong on him. Not sure.
His play rate isn't there yet, but whenever I get games with Graves players their builds are usually a bit different each time than what I was use to seeing.
By end of preseason I think Graves will be the jungler people will be complaining about. Mark it on your calendar.
Saw one graves player build this 
they were really strong, but it definitely wasn't a standard build.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesoh im sure someone somewhere will complain about something related to league.. and sure why not let it be graves
that is 90 % of the boards is crying and complaining
with 60% about gameplay items.champs etc and 30 % in the pb&m boards crying how they are unfairly banned/punished
only 10% is useful
Seenan2 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IovElAAw,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-17T08:56:24.066+0000)
oh im sure someone somewhere will complain about something related to league.. and sure why not let it be graves
that is 90 % of the boards is crying and complaining
with 60% about gameplay items.champs etc and 30 % in the pb&m boards crying how they are unfairly banned/punished
only 10% is useful
Graves is already complained about. A tanky burst adc jungler, what's not to get salty at?
JackMcSnipeyz4 votesNot tanky anymore, has good early to midgame power - falls off late Close range anti melee ADC Stop complaining he recived enough nerfs already
IcyPepper3 votesEr, nerf plz I guess?
zGv Frenzy2 votesAs a 
main i wouldn't necessarily say that 
is OP. yeah his early game is annoying but any kind of hard cc can ruin his combo. Lee hit my ADC with a Q? wait until he tries to jump in. Hook. combo stopped.. as long as you have a team that can peel properly hes not too hard to shut down.
I find 
and to be more OP then .
Had a game yesterday, got 2 shotted by a Graves as Blitz even though i was building tank. sorry but you shouldn't be able to hit a tank with one spell and one auto and kill them while taking no damage in the process.. he wasnt even really fed, he was only up by two kills. he had just been power farming in jungle. only to finally emerge and go on a rampage.
in another game ,i was playing 
got caught warding in front of baron pit. then proceeds to chase me down and kill me before i can even get back to tier 1 mid turret. even though i had mobi boots, had popped my E and my 
. oh did i forget to mention that she chased me down through river where i get +15 movement speed? did i also forget to mention i was running 3 movement speed quints?... broken af
Tobias Brackner2 votesBecause it's all flavor of the month QQ.
There is no logic to it aside from receiving upvotes.
Raoul1 votesDude, Lee SIn will NEVER get nerfed. He was the boss jungler in every season, in every Meta since he was released. People just got tired of it and decided to just accept this as one of the things RIOT will never ever change. Lee Sin will always be a top pick, always a super strong jungler, because his kit is overloaded as fuck and his basic design is broken as hell. And now hes also one of the few champions who can counter stealth, so another indirect Buff for him.
DunkinNoobs5 votesDon't make me go and list every nerf Lee has gotten. I really don't feel like spending all the time that would take.
Junkο2 votesLee Sin has actually been nerfed a shit ton.
His armor and hp regen got nerfed a decent amount, his shield duration got halved, he can't shield wards, doesn't gain free armor from second W,E no longer AS slows you to the point you feel like you are stunned, overall the duration of self buffs was nerfed, cooldowns went up, etc.
Just makes you think how overloaded he used to be.
lolouie1 votesLee is probably strong atm due to the fact that his q and e reveals invisible targets. Makes sense. Especially since alot of people currently is playing the new assassins.. which make up MOST of the game's invisibility skills.
Flemman3 votesand, on top of that, new jungle is so snowbally xp wise that, if you pick an early jungler who can clean/gank fast or a champ who can steal camp easy you gain1/2 leve"l over the ennemy in less than 5 min.
As lee is strong for both scenarii, maybe he will get some change before real season start (but most likely the jungle xp/gold will change because it will just move to the next jack of all trade jungler if it's just lee)