Downright confusing how Viktor is kept trash

Jinzo Torrance·Jul 25, 2017·3 votes·884 views

loses every match-up, has bad roams, needs to spend 1250g to have a waveclear that only kills casters, can't buy any other item like to forget about his mana and needs to rush against assassin so he gets his waveclear at 20 minutes.

Presses Q 2 times on every wave until 900g, gets , presses Q 2 times forever, still gets buffs

Presses Q 2 times on every wave until 900g, gets , presses Q 2 times and then roams with her ult bot for a double

Can you at least not make so costs 1000g and gives flat stats again along with the scaling ones so he doesn't get his skulled bashed by every single champion until 50 minutes?

25 Comments

JQKAndreiJul 25, 20172 votes

You only need to AA melees once and then you oneshot the whole wave... Viktor really isn't one that struggles with minions.

Also I've never built Zhonya's on him, it's stupid to waste gold on that when with a lich bane you kill almost any assassin before he does.

Work on your mechanics, Viktor is a monster.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Also I've never built Zhonya's on him, it's stupid to waste gold on that when with a lich bane you kill almost any assassin before he does.

Not even reading your comment

SirchachatJul 25, 20171 votes

I don't see anything wrong with what he said, Zhonyas is pointless if you rush sheen first item because you can shut down ALL Assassins with a W Q AA combo.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

You can't rush Lich Bane.

If after item 3196 you get a item 3057 you better be snowballing otherwise the assassin is just going to get a free kill, better to rush armguard and then evaluate wether or not is it safe to skip Zhonya.

SirchachatJul 25, 20171 votes

Why can't you rush Lich Bane? It's a core item that is also a massive power spike. Waiting to augment a bit later feels more cost effective at least to me and doesn't handicap your early laning phase.

Also it's no guarantee that the "assassin" is getting a free kill because you have your slow/stun, high burst and a shield to deal with them, unless you intend to try and push them under there tower giving them a massive advantage by making yourself incredibly gankable.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

By rush I mean skipping item 3196 and going Lich bane, what happens is that you will get shoved in.

I don't even know what to say, it may work at your ELO but you don't burst anyone, your E detonation doesn't hit anyone but the minions, your W is easily dodged and R takes time to deal damage, what if they get Hexdrinker?

Just get Zhonya and farm, then get Lich.

By the way, Lich is not always the best choice, sometimes getting into auto range is too dangerous (talking about teamfight scenario).

SirchachatJul 25, 20171 votes

We are in the same elo so your comment about what may work in my elo but won't in yours is flawed.
You want to be pushed closer to your tower so you have the safety of your tower, easy ganks to your lane, and a free kill when the Silver assassin gets greedy and tower dives you and gives you a free kill because low and behold you stun them under tower.
Lich gives you insane potential in team fights because your poke is unmatched and finally you can delete the adc and enemy assassin/mage and escape using your Shield/Movement speed buff.

Anyway I'm not spending all day justifying why X item is core on Y champion. Good Bye !

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

Bye [slayer-jinx-wink]

Go Lich and get bursted down because you don't build Zhonya and Banshee first.

MizayaJul 25, 20172 votes

Nah, Viktor is where Ori should be. Both scale super well, but he doesn't get a free lane like she does.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20172 votes

She's a super safe lane bully, he loses to everyone pre - item 3196 then he just stalls until lategame, way too weak, gets shutdown way too hard by one gank

LauchmelderJul 25, 20171 votes

If you have to spam your E to keep up with a midlaner constantly shoving in you can get tear or lost chapter. Nothing stops you from doing so, and it's by far no that big of a problem on him.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

You do realize you will never clear a wave without E detonation right? Getting a Tear or a Lost chapter is a waste of gold on Viktor.

LauchmelderJul 26, 20171 votes

If you have mana problems you buy a mana item.

"Oh god, I actually have to learn to last hit, I can't just spam my E for CS."

ChompyWulfJul 25, 20171 votes

OK.....you realize you pointed out some major differences in your complaint? I will never say that the evolved E wave clear isnt nice. It's lovely how with it placed right you can stall infinitely.

Tali needs to use 2 spells to clear. Ekko needs to use 2 spells to clear.

I have played some bad early games with Vik, and I have bullied in others. He's in a good place, even if it does feel like a penalty sometimes to have to invest 2000 gold to unlock your full kit and delay some other stats for a while.

Like others have said, you don't need to rush his evolutions first if you have mana problems with how you play.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

Might have worded the E part badly, yeah. I just meant that them having item 3802 and using spells that have lower CD and mana cost is actually close to what you're doing with your E.

You can bully champions like Kass or Zed early, at 6 the table turns.

I don't have mana problem but eventually I either get blue or back, they won't since they have item 3802 .

Very Hard EngageJul 25, 20171 votes

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=CrestKnight

i have an 83% win rate on viktor not buying core as a first item upgrade, instead opting for double dorans / morello/glip/zhonyas/sorc boots all as needed as core item build upgrading core when the raw AP value is needed.

i put much more emphasis on CDR and just making sure that when i get all in'd i get out alive.

you dont have to upgrade the core, its an option, but its been a bad investment ever since the first buy got pushed to 1250, and you're not coming out with large rod levels of AP

you dont have to gimp yourself ~ 500g at the start of every game.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20172 votes

Heresy, the only you should not upgrade to Hexcore is when you're against an assassin that might make you go Seeker or even Zhonya, or you're playing against a braindead and can go Sorc for an easy snowball.

"you dont have to gimp yourself 500g at the start of every game"

Dude, not buying starter items is really way too risky, if you're saying that.

Very Hard EngageJul 25, 20171 votes

what are you getting from the core that you're not getting from items.

viktor can laser twice with morello and have the CDR for team fights as opposed to brain dead AFK wave clear.

#winning more than losing

item 3145 even gives more damage than lich bane does in the early game.

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

I'm getting a cost-effective waveclear
You use 220 mana as opposed to 110 and the ability to roam
You're gold, people above it don't delay Hex-core more than 10 minutes, they usually get Boots or Dark Seal if they can afford it.
Had an 86% WR with Viktor last season too

Very Hard EngageJul 25, 20171 votes

last season isnt this season, before he used to be OP now hes more in line with regular mages who are dumpster, and you're trying to do the same old thing you always do with viktor and it clearly hasn't worked out well for you.

now his core item is trash

Jinzo TorranceJul 25, 20171 votes

You're just saying non-sense, it has been working out for me and nobody skips his Hex Core in high ELO

Very Hard EngageJul 26, 20171 votes

are you aware that bjerg has a 33% win rate on viktor using the "standard" core/lich bane build?

tell me whats more important, being like the pros, or actually turning out wins?

im telling you, core/lichbane are just bad on viktor, sure he might chunk hard, but it doesn't 100-0 forcing you to wait for CD's, but CDR + poke oriented viktor DOES net kills due to the availability of laser + poke beforehand. (putting them to 50% poking with laser, then all ining them)

when you rush core, you have the option to either poke, and force them out (which is good dont get me wrong) BUT ITS NEVER enough to 100-0. and often times you have tons of down time to get harassed for free. being more wave clear oriented.

or you can go for CDR and have the option to do both, wave clear and poke at your discretion.

the double dorans glip/zhonya combo is extremely effective at giving you ample AP to wave clear, and survive tough enemy lanes, it is at the expense of damage, but you stop feeding and you have a much much better late game than they do as viktor when you do then build your core/rab cap/void as finishing items.

please, just try this build once

ap pen/scaling health/MR (alternative 15% scaling CDR if you're confident like i am) /AP quints double dorans -> hex tech revolver -> sorc boots/glip -> zhonyas -> core -> morello -> rab cap

(interchange or replace morello glip and zhonyas as needed, consider replacing morello altogether with void, definitely if you take cdr blues)

you may replace glip with chapter/codex -> morello for more passive and less engage oriented laners, such as veigar, vlad, anivia, sol, ahri etc. if so dont bother with glip and then pick a new AP item to build. banshees veil is alright, but typically not enough AP, consider ludens.

you dont need double dorans if you start morello over glip.

its up to you if you're confident in lane. if you dont feel the lane is in your favor build glip and turtle it out.

Jinzo TorranceJul 26, 20171 votes

I don't always do Hex Core/ Lich Bane since it requires me to gung-ho and against teams who can catch me if I get too close it's risky and it turns into a waste of gold if I can't use it, I usually do Hex Core -> Ionian Boots -> Zhonya/Banshee -> Lich, while I do Negatron/Sekeer then Lich against players I know I can snowball against or they're just not a threat to me.

I mean, Viktor is just weak in lane phase, you fire your E to farm and all you have left is Q, of course people harass you for free.

Not a fan of early Revolver, feels like a waste since Sheen procs more often and helps pushing turrets.

That build feels like way to glass cannon for me, like Morello + Sorc is FAT damage and a more bursty playstyle liked by some to E>Q>AA the carry and blow them up, but I like to have more durability with a defensive item and Ionian/Mercs/Tabi (and then build a Void Staff to overcome the MR) so I can stick close and hit more enemies with my ulti without exploding at the first skillshot that hits me.

Luden is the anti-Lich Bane, it means you never want to get in Q range (Lich would be better if you want to get in Q range) since you will likely die and you just want to kite and poke with E.

I'll try it out, but not having instant waveclear feels bad, like it's almost the Viktor's code to get Hex Core by 10 minutes, Revolver into Gunblade or later sold for Lich Bane by the way?

Also what do you mean with "Glip"?

Very Hard EngageJul 26, 20171 votes

item 3030