Almost 1 year later and melee toplaners still don't have a keystone in ranged matchups

iTaLenTZ··3 votes·1,391 views

You get outpoked and are never able to hit Grasp so you end up playing with no keystone. The alternative is going some random rune build that makes you less tanky thus more prone to getting poked out of lane. It is always a lose-lose situation.

14 Comments

Ashe mage AD2 votes

Use the bush already, holy fk it's been 9 years now..

OtterlyLost2 votes

You dont honestly need a keystone. You literally have bomeplating, second wind, and access to doran's shield. Get defensive boots and hit level 3 and shit on them. ._. The only ranged top that could feasibly give any melee top trouble is Kennen and he isnt that common. Furthermore, there arent even ranged top laners who are actually good right now. Gnar has been in the dumpster for well over a season now; he has no keystone. Jayce has been nerfed several times and is super uncommon. Ryze is trash. Just who are you going against top that actually gives you problems? Top lane is pretty much melee only with no diversity.

Alzon1 votes

Urgot, Swain, Vladimir, Gangplank, Quinn, Lissandra, Pantheon.

Also, DShield + Second Wind + Bone Plating hardly lets you just brush off harass. In fact, ranged champions pretty much mitigate Bone Plating. After it’s down, that’s a big window where the melee champion is more susceptible to taking consecutive hits. This reduces the effectiveness of DShield and Second Wind, which function optimally against single-hit poke. And even once Gangplank gets Sheen and Pantheon hits level 5, DShield + Second Wind regen are rather negligible against this single-hit poke.

Please get some respectable experience with Runes Reforged in a role before stating something outrageous about it like “You don’t honestly need a keystone.” Know what you’re talking about before coming onto the Boards to belittle people.

OtterlyLost1 votes

GP and Pantheon are not ranged, for one.

Secondly, DShield + Second Wind + Bone Plating let you brush off enough harrass to back and buy a defensive boot and then not be killable the rest of the game. Ninja Tabi literally shuts down both GP, Pantheon, Quinn, and Urgot. Getting Mercs does the same for Swain, Vlad, and Lissandra(Whom I also haven't seen in forever and is, again, trash tier).

For three, if ranged champions top lane are so problematic, why is it that most of the roster top lane are melee? Olaf, Sion, Pantheon, Rengar, Wukong, Nautilus, Illaoi, Camille, Maokai, Urgot, Singed, Garen, Darius... Clearly Ranged top laners are completely dominating the top lane in winrates and its not as if these melee fighters just get the slightest bit of tank and are fine.

Alzon1 votes
  1. Semantics. They harass and zone like ranged champions.

  2. They let you brush off enough harass to get 20-30 CS before their impact becomes marginal. Not enough to oneshot t2 boots. Plus, defensive boots do NOT shut down those champions. Again, because the impact is marginal - something like a Catalyst or Warhammer on the opponent will grant them a similar marginal power increase.

  3. I never said they were problematic, just that your solution of “dshield + second wind + bone plating + no keystone” is not how you go about laning versus one. In fact, CPot + biscuits + time warp is better - more HP regen, mana regen for keeping yourself from losing CS under turret - but it’s still not the solution. An all-in keystone is required to capitalize on the enemy mistakes, and give yourself a little breathing room because they know you can and will fight back.

OurLestrade1 votes

What do you suggest as a solution? One idea that popped in my head just now borrowed from the days of Grand Chase PvP is the berserk mechanic that Elesis/Sieghart had where if they got hit by enough ranged attacks consecutively they'd "berserk" and knock up enemies in a small AOE. Doubt it'd be balanced, but it's a thought.

Dark Royalty1 votes

It would be good if range champs didnt have more movespeed than melee champs.

ShadWooo1 votes

But they don't because these items exists: item 3044 ,item 2053 and items they upgrade into + item 3078.

Dark Royalty1 votes

Ok? Gnar builds cleaver jayce has his ability quinn can knock you back and kennen has his stuns and e. Also raptor cloak doesnt work near towers. I dont have any problems vs range champs but its just boring that you have to sit under tower all game

ShadWooo1 votes

with exception of gnar, ranged matchups in toplane are decided by jungler, those ranged characters like teemo can't do **** if your jungler ganks them. They usually can't go tp because with tp they lacks burst or sustain/defense and so well timed gank can give you 1 level advantage with which they cannot hurt you because they cannot risk you will all in which will get them die (or it should). They are also very supsceptible to freeze, almost every toplaner has a gapcloser that has bigger range than enemy ranged champ aa range and unlike fighters/tanks they are too squishy.

Also vs mage ranged champions you can abuse their cooldowns quite easily. Very often at least in d5 elo I see enemy tank or fighter to outcs this Malza, Ryze, Lissandra, Annie top that sometimes appear...

EDIT: and dont forget about phage...

serLonzelot1 votes

predator, second tree go boneplate and second wind rush tabis into either ghost blade or rightous glory run. them. down

Quiet Dude1 votes

This. Predator or comet is great to slap ranged top laners silly.

Alzon1 votes

Melee vs ranged toplaners typically want a keystone that helps them when they get on their opponent. An all-in keystone, not a trading keystone, and not one that has to stack up like Conqueror since you’ll get zoned too much to reliably stack it. Hail of Blades, Lethal Tempo, Press the Attack, Electrocute, Phase Rush, and Aftershock are all better into ranged than Grasp, Aery, Comet, and Conqueror. Personally, I prefer Hail of Blades, but it depends on your champion and playstyle.

Beatrice falls1 votes

Because "counterplay counterplaying counterplay counterplaying counterplay" needs to stop being a thing. You (and Riot) needs to understand that you don't always have to compensate for a weakness, because you end up with overloaded shit like Yasuo

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